TSA wants to get more intimate when doing passenger pat downs.
Sep 9, 2018, 11:41 am
#796
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
There are a number of items that can be hidden behind bandages, slings, and just about anywhere that someone would like to get creative on their person. Personally, I do not worry about someone taking a plane down with a single knife - however, the regulations still stat that knives are a no-go.
Why does TSA require people wearing casts and using crutches to give up those crutches and hop through scanners, either WTMD or WBI? Why does TSA force people using crutches to stand while those crutches are being sent through the x-ray? What would happen if someone refused to put their health at risk to satisfy TSA?
When is TSA going to publish a reconciliation of all those "dangerous items" found "daily" while molesting passengers?
Sep 9, 2018, 11:53 am
#797
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,424
So in order to make certain that a passenger is not hiding something under a bandage, TSA presses harder on those sites. That's really smart.
Why does TSA require people wearing casts and using crutches to give up those crutches and hop through scanners, either WTMD or WBI? Why does TSA force people using crutches to stand while those crutches are being sent through the x-ray? What would happen if someone refused to put their health at risk to satisfy TSA?
When is TSA going to publish a reconciliation of all those "dangerous items" found "daily" while molesting passengers?
Why does TSA require people wearing casts and using crutches to give up those crutches and hop through scanners, either WTMD or WBI? Why does TSA force people using crutches to stand while those crutches are being sent through the x-ray? What would happen if someone refused to put their health at risk to satisfy TSA?
When is TSA going to publish a reconciliation of all those "dangerous items" found "daily" while molesting passengers?
TSA does not force passengers to hop through anything, the passenger has a choice on how they can be screened - if they choose to use the WTMD or AIT, then we are to work with them to get them through with as little hassle as possible. If they do not choose to use the WTMD or AIT, then the last resort available to them is the pat-down. When we conduct a pat-down, the passenger does not even have to stand up, we can do it with the individual in the chair, at GSO, we even keep chairs near the back of the checkpoint in case someone with limited mobility needs a place to sit down during a pat-down. There are myriad ways we can work with a passenger to get them through the checkpoint, and at times we may offer other screening methods, but ultimately the choice is made by the passenger, not the TSOs.
I truly believe you are sincere in your believe that "the organization can follow up on things like this", but it runs counter to my experience.
Here is one experience I had. After going through the normal screening process (WTMD) I was pulled aside for additional screening. I was not given the option of private screening. Rather I was ordered into a room for private screening against my expressed desire. During the "screening process" (groping) the TSO rubbed my genitals with the front of his hand while also making gratuitous comments about my muscle tone. Those comments were totally inappropriate and uncomfortable to me in the extreme. I did just as you suggest. I filed a complaint with the TSA and with my representative. The TSA's response basically boiled down to "so what". No one from TSA contacted me to gather any additional information, no one ever addressed what were clearly inappropriate comments by the screener, No one ever explained why the groping had to be done away from the public view. Not a single person at the TSA gave a damn. In short there was no follow up worth of the term.
If you want to hear about the lack of interest when I had screeners attempt to steal from my bag let me know and I'll post about those incidents, too.
In short, filing complaints may provide some cathartic relief but nothing else will come of it.
Here is one experience I had. After going through the normal screening process (WTMD) I was pulled aside for additional screening. I was not given the option of private screening. Rather I was ordered into a room for private screening against my expressed desire. During the "screening process" (groping) the TSO rubbed my genitals with the front of his hand while also making gratuitous comments about my muscle tone. Those comments were totally inappropriate and uncomfortable to me in the extreme. I did just as you suggest. I filed a complaint with the TSA and with my representative. The TSA's response basically boiled down to "so what". No one from TSA contacted me to gather any additional information, no one ever addressed what were clearly inappropriate comments by the screener, No one ever explained why the groping had to be done away from the public view. Not a single person at the TSA gave a damn. In short there was no follow up worth of the term.
If you want to hear about the lack of interest when I had screeners attempt to steal from my bag let me know and I'll post about those incidents, too.
In short, filing complaints may provide some cathartic relief but nothing else will come of it.
I will give you the same information I gave above. If you file a complaint with TSA, and are dissatisfied with the results, you can always step up the chain and file with DHS OIG. It is an imperfect system, and some times things are not addressed the way they should be - if you feel that is the case, then file with DHS OIG, also as mentioned above, the next step is elected officials, and that is... inconsistent at best.
I hear and experience many more positive comments at my airport than constructive, not because we don't get constructive ones, but because we are a smaller airport and have a consistent traveler base. Most of our regulars know they can stop and talk to the STSO on the way out if they are unhappy, as do the majority of our infrequent passengers. I have fielded complaints, compliments and simply talked with tons of people that were asking questions. We are lucky that we have that opportunity here, because I am not the only one that does it. I hope that your future travels are uneventful at worst, and wonderful in any case.
Last edited by TWA884; Sep 9, 2018 at 3:11 pm Reason: Merge consecutive posts by the same member
Sep 9, 2018, 12:10 pm
#798
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Actually, I would appreciate it if you didn't try to put words in my mouth, I am quite comfortable with my own. I never said that "TSA presses harder on those sites", that was someone else here. I believe that my statement was " In terms of identified sensitive areas, the TSOs are supposed to clear the area, but we are also supposed to work with the passenger, and be conscious of the pain it can cause". If anything, what I said contradicts what you are implying.
TSA does not force passengers to hop through anything, the passenger has a choice on how they can be screened - if they choose to use the WTMD or AIT, then we are to work with them to get them through with as little hassle as possible. If they do not choose to use the WTMD or AIT, then the last resort available to them is the pat-down. When we conduct a pat-down, the passenger does not even have to stand up, we can do it with the individual in the chair, at GSO, we even keep chairs near the back of the checkpoint in case someone with limited mobility needs a place to sit down during a pat-down. There are myriad ways we can work with a passenger to get them through the checkpoint, and at times we may offer other screening methods, but ultimately the choice is made by the passenger, not the TSOs.
TSA does not force passengers to hop through anything, the passenger has a choice on how they can be screened - if they choose to use the WTMD or AIT, then we are to work with them to get them through with as little hassle as possible. If they do not choose to use the WTMD or AIT, then the last resort available to them is the pat-down. When we conduct a pat-down, the passenger does not even have to stand up, we can do it with the individual in the chair, at GSO, we even keep chairs near the back of the checkpoint in case someone with limited mobility needs a place to sit down during a pat-down. There are myriad ways we can work with a passenger to get them through the checkpoint, and at times we may offer other screening methods, but ultimately the choice is made by the passenger, not the TSOs.
Oh, sorry I forgot, none of the complaints on social media count.
Last edited by petaluma1; Sep 9, 2018 at 2:29 pm
Sep 9, 2018, 1:31 pm
#799
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,111
If you have filed a complaint with TSA, and feel the response has not been adequate, you can always contact the DHS OIG, and move forward from there. Investigations have to start somewhere, and I would ask that you file with TSA to start, and if you do not get satisfaction, move to DHS - above that, the next step is contacting elected officials directly (and as always, YMMV in that scenario).
Actually, I would appreciate it if you didn't try to put words in my mouth, I am quite comfortable with my own. I never said that "TSA presses harder on those sites", that was someone else here. I believe that my statement was " In terms of identified sensitive areas, the TSOs are supposed to clear the area, but we are also supposed to work with the passenger, and be conscious of the pain it can cause". If anything, what I said contradicts what you are implying.
TSA does not force passengers to hop through anything, the passenger has a choice on how they can be screened - if they choose to use the WTMD or AIT, then we are to work with them to get them through with as little hassle as possible. If they do not choose to use the WTMD or AIT, then the last resort available to them is the pat-down. When we conduct a pat-down, the passenger does not even have to stand up, we can do it with the individual in the chair, at GSO, we even keep chairs near the back of the checkpoint in case someone with limited mobility needs a place to sit down during a pat-down. There are myriad ways we can work with a passenger to get them through the checkpoint, and at times we may offer other screening methods, but ultimately the choice is made by the passenger, not the TSOs.
TSA does not force passengers to hop through anything, the passenger has a choice on how they can be screened - if they choose to use the WTMD or AIT, then we are to work with them to get them through with as little hassle as possible. If they do not choose to use the WTMD or AIT, then the last resort available to them is the pat-down. When we conduct a pat-down, the passenger does not even have to stand up, we can do it with the individual in the chair, at GSO, we even keep chairs near the back of the checkpoint in case someone with limited mobility needs a place to sit down during a pat-down. There are myriad ways we can work with a passenger to get them through the checkpoint, and at times we may offer other screening methods, but ultimately the choice is made by the passenger, not the TSOs.
A second more recent experience. I have hearing loss in both ears. Hearing aids are great except in noisy environments. I had just cleared the WBI when a screener took a fast step towards me. I backed up a bit startled and explained that I had hearing loss hoping he would speak louder. What he did was step right up in my face and moved his lips like he was speaking. A real class act from another of TSA's highly trained professional screener force. That's just two examples, I have more and I don't fly multiple times every week.
I apologize that your experience has been different than I have described. I also appreciate your comments.
I will give you the same information I gave above. If you file a complaint with TSA, and are dissatisfied with the results, you can always step up the chain and file with DHS OIG. It is an imperfect system, and some times things are not addressed the way they should be - if you feel that is the case, then file with DHS OIG, also as mentioned above, the next step is elected officials, and that is... inconsistent at best.
I hear and experience many more positive comments at my airport than constructive, not because we don't get constructive ones, but because we are a smaller airport and have a consistent traveler base. Most of our regulars know they can stop and talk to the STSO on the way out if they are unhappy, as do the majority of our infrequent passengers. I have fielded complaints, compliments and simply talked with tons of people that were asking questions. We are lucky that we have that opportunity here, because I am not the only one that does it. I hope that your future travels are uneventful at worst, and wonderful in any case.
I will give you the same information I gave above. If you file a complaint with TSA, and are dissatisfied with the results, you can always step up the chain and file with DHS OIG. It is an imperfect system, and some times things are not addressed the way they should be - if you feel that is the case, then file with DHS OIG, also as mentioned above, the next step is elected officials, and that is... inconsistent at best.
I hear and experience many more positive comments at my airport than constructive, not because we don't get constructive ones, but because we are a smaller airport and have a consistent traveler base. Most of our regulars know they can stop and talk to the STSO on the way out if they are unhappy, as do the majority of our infrequent passengers. I have fielded complaints, compliments and simply talked with tons of people that were asking questions. We are lucky that we have that opportunity here, because I am not the only one that does it. I hope that your future travels are uneventful at worst, and wonderful in any case.
I honestly wish that you could experience TSA as I have. On most trips it isn't all that bad but there are more than enough very bad experiences that leave a very negative , lasting impression, of TSA. TSA needs to make some fundamental changes. First would be transparency in its screening procedures and a clear detailing of just how far a screening can go, and by this I mean groping genitals. Second would be transparency in the complaint process with mandatory periodic follow ups with the person submitting the complaint. Third would be a change to legislation where legal action could go before courts with juries. And lastly, reverting back to the original title "TSA Screener" and getting rid of the badges.
Last edited by TWA884; Sep 9, 2018 at 3:14 pm Reason: Merge consecutive posts by the same member for readability
Sep 9, 2018, 2:38 pm
#800
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
I have filed complaints with TSA and my experience is that nothing happens. Even had an FSD cover up a complaint so no thank you, my complaints go directly to OIG should I feel the need to submit a complaint. TSA needs to demonstrate a process where the person filing the complaint is kept in the loop until resolution is determined. The system needs to be open and have no question of bias. In my opinion TSA is as far away from those ideals as possible and it will take an Administrator who can admit problems may exist to gain public trust.
However, as far as keeping the person who filed the complaint involved, the Office of Inspection inserts this statement in its notice that a complaint has been received and assigned a number:
Due to federal privacy laws and to ensure and maintain the integrity of investigations, complainants are not entitled to receive status updates, Reports of Investigation, or the final adjudication of those reports created as a result of their reporting. You may file a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request with TSA to request records related to a TSA Hotline complaint; see www.FOIA.gov for more information.
Last edited by petaluma1; Sep 9, 2018 at 2:44 pm
Sep 9, 2018, 2:51 pm
#801
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,111
The good thing about filing with the IG initially is that the IG will send the complaint to the TSA Office of Investigations - which is further than most complaints filed with TSA probably ever get - and the TSA must then advise the IG's office how the complaint is resolved. It also, obviously, alerts the IG to problems on the frontlines, problems that otherwise would not get brought to their attention.
Sep 9, 2018, 5:03 pm
#802
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,424
Again, you are trying to put words in my mouth. I stated that complaints on social media sites and accounts are handled differently than officially filed complaints - and rightly so.
Sep 9, 2018, 5:08 pm
#803
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,111
Why is that rightfully so? Are complaints not complaints? Doesn't TSA have the ability to contact the reporting individual in either case? I think it's a whole different issue. TSA doesn't take complaints seriously or just doesn't care.
edit to add:
Why is TSA so big on Social,Media when it benefits TSA but not when the public uses it to address TSA?
Last edited by Boggie Dog; Sep 9, 2018 at 5:34 pm
Sep 9, 2018, 5:29 pm
#804
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Join Date: Sep 2006
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More importantly, there is plenty of material for investigation from twitter and blog (not TSA) and media posts without TSA demanding personal information so the complainer can be blacklisted.
I have given examples: multiple people post pictures and tweets about opened containers being tossed back into searched luggage as a joke. With the information available: the airport - TSA already has enough to start investigating tapes. There is no need to single out one pax for punishment solely because s/he actually filed a formal complaint and gave his/her personal information while reporting a problem that many have experienced.
The video of the young boy in light shorts getting his genitals repeatedly rubbed (there is no other accurate word) by a screener - who was then ordered by his supervisor to get down with his face inches away from the young lad's crotch and to rub his genitals a second time. TSA had all the necessary information to investigate that incident (although from TSA's standpoint, there was nothing wrong with a supervisor ordering a punitive genital rubbing on a young boy).
I appreciate that some screeners regularly post here, always anxious to represent the screener's exonerating side of every episode. I am surprised that there is virtually zero interest - at the screener level or the organization level - in actually talking to the pax involved.
Question that can't be answered because it is SSI (but we all know the real answer anyway):
If TSA maintains that it cannot properly research any type of claim whatsoever without a formal TSA complaint that includes all of the pax's personal information, what, other than retaliation, does TSA want that information for?
Because according to TSA's own 'rules', the victim is allowed no voice.
If you have no intention of talking to me about my claim: details about the claim, supporting documentation/photos/witnesses - and you have no intention of telling me the outcome, then the only possible reason you can want all of my personal information is to add me to a 'problem' database for future retaliation. No other explanation makes sense.
I have given examples: multiple people post pictures and tweets about opened containers being tossed back into searched luggage as a joke. With the information available: the airport - TSA already has enough to start investigating tapes. There is no need to single out one pax for punishment solely because s/he actually filed a formal complaint and gave his/her personal information while reporting a problem that many have experienced.
The video of the young boy in light shorts getting his genitals repeatedly rubbed (there is no other accurate word) by a screener - who was then ordered by his supervisor to get down with his face inches away from the young lad's crotch and to rub his genitals a second time. TSA had all the necessary information to investigate that incident (although from TSA's standpoint, there was nothing wrong with a supervisor ordering a punitive genital rubbing on a young boy).
I appreciate that some screeners regularly post here, always anxious to represent the screener's exonerating side of every episode. I am surprised that there is virtually zero interest - at the screener level or the organization level - in actually talking to the pax involved.
Question that can't be answered because it is SSI (but we all know the real answer anyway):
If TSA maintains that it cannot properly research any type of claim whatsoever without a formal TSA complaint that includes all of the pax's personal information, what, other than retaliation, does TSA want that information for?
Because according to TSA's own 'rules', the victim is allowed no voice.
If you have no intention of talking to me about my claim: details about the claim, supporting documentation/photos/witnesses - and you have no intention of telling me the outcome, then the only possible reason you can want all of my personal information is to add me to a 'problem' database for future retaliation. No other explanation makes sense.
Sep 9, 2018, 5:42 pm
#806
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,424
I have filed complaints with TSA and my experience is that nothing happens. Even had an FSD cover up a complaint so no thank you, my complaints go directly to OIG should I feel the need to submit a complaint. TSA needs to demonstrate a process where the person filing the complaint is kept in the loop until resolution is determined. The system needs to be open and have no question of bias. In my opinion TSA is as far away from those ideals as possible and it will take an Administrator who can admit problems may exist to gain public trust.
I was required to wear a back brace after having back surgery. I wasn't even suppose to get out of bed without having it on. So happens I had a need to travel while using the brace . Low and behold a TSA screener demanded I remove the brace for screening. No amount of explanation satisfied that highly trained TSA professional.
A second more recent experience. I have hearing loss in both ears. Hearing aids are great except in noisy environments. I had just cleared the WBI when a screener took a fast step towards me. I backed up a bit startled and explained that I had hearing loss hoping he would speak louder. What he did was step right up in my face and moved his lips like he was speaking. A real class act from another of TSA's highly trained professional screener force. That's just two examples, I have more and I don't fly multiple times every week.
You work at an airport that has by my estimate less than 100 departures each day. If I'm close on the outbound flight count then I suggest your current experience is vastly different than what's going on in busy airports. Perhaps you should volunteer to travel around on TSA's dime for a couple of weeks, incognito, playing an uninformed traveler and see how the TSA system really works. Of course that would mean discarding your bias supporting TSA and truly test the system.
I honestly wish that you could experience TSA as I have. On most trips it isn't all that bad but there are more than enough very bad experiences that leave a very negative , lasting impression, of TSA. TSA needs to make some fundamental changes. First would be transparency in its screening procedures and a clear detailing of just how far a screening can go, and by this I mean groping genitals. Second would be transparency in the complaint process with mandatory periodic follow ups with the person submitting the complaint. Third would be a change to legislation where legal action could go before courts with juries. And lastly, reverting back to the original title "TSA Screener" and getting rid of the badges.
I was required to wear a back brace after having back surgery. I wasn't even suppose to get out of bed without having it on. So happens I had a need to travel while using the brace . Low and behold a TSA screener demanded I remove the brace for screening. No amount of explanation satisfied that highly trained TSA professional.
A second more recent experience. I have hearing loss in both ears. Hearing aids are great except in noisy environments. I had just cleared the WBI when a screener took a fast step towards me. I backed up a bit startled and explained that I had hearing loss hoping he would speak louder. What he did was step right up in my face and moved his lips like he was speaking. A real class act from another of TSA's highly trained professional screener force. That's just two examples, I have more and I don't fly multiple times every week.
You work at an airport that has by my estimate less than 100 departures each day. If I'm close on the outbound flight count then I suggest your current experience is vastly different than what's going on in busy airports. Perhaps you should volunteer to travel around on TSA's dime for a couple of weeks, incognito, playing an uninformed traveler and see how the TSA system really works. Of course that would mean discarding your bias supporting TSA and truly test the system.
I honestly wish that you could experience TSA as I have. On most trips it isn't all that bad but there are more than enough very bad experiences that leave a very negative , lasting impression, of TSA. TSA needs to make some fundamental changes. First would be transparency in its screening procedures and a clear detailing of just how far a screening can go, and by this I mean groping genitals. Second would be transparency in the complaint process with mandatory periodic follow ups with the person submitting the complaint. Third would be a change to legislation where legal action could go before courts with juries. And lastly, reverting back to the original title "TSA Screener" and getting rid of the badges.
The guy messing with you over the hearing aids, was completely uncalled for, and unprofessional - next time I would ask you to file the complaint, even if you skip right by us and go to the OIG group. At some point, I would hope that someone would notice a pattern of complaints.
If you would like to see the actual real time stats of GSO, they can be found Fly from PTI (generally speaking, we have about 50-55 departures a day, but we just got Spirit airlines added on, so it may be a few more). I don't think we have 100 departures a day, but our traffic is up almost 10% this year. Just for the record, I operate exactly the same way at large airports that I do here (funny point I learned early in my life, the ones that are being the biggest challenges, are the ones you should be the MOST professional with). I would gladly do a mystery shopper program, but there are already several programs that HQ operates that test the checkpoints and baggage areas in a variety of ways - plus, I do not want to live in DC.I have already gone on record stating that the basic procedures that can be seen consistently with 15 minutes of observation, should be posted in public - that would give folks a realistic expectation of the basics, a good idea of when something is out of bounds, and it would take us about 15 minutes to do. Keep the resolutions and responses to situations out of publication, but the basics that you can sit down and figure out in 15 minutes, we should be able to post that info, as it is pretty much a cat that is already out of the bag. I am also already on record as stating that I want a complaint process that involves the passenger with consistent updates - not that we are going to give you the resolution that you are necessarily wanting, but that we are taking your complaints seriously and keeping you in the loop on what is happening. One problem that there may be with that process is the increased costs, and an increase in staffing at least at the regional level. I agree that the cost would be worth it, as we would gain some buy in from the passengers, and it would make it easier to hold TSOs accountable when they do something wrong.
I am not as certain on the legislative process. There are certain aspects that are listed as SSI, and I am uncertain where those limits would be in terms of court proceedings - not that I agree with what is done, simply that I do not know where the legal system and the court system intersect on those cases.
I personally take pride in the Badge, but my attitude and work ethic would not change one iota either way. I am not here because of the badge, or the uniform, or the title, I am here to try and do as much good as I possibly can for our passengers, and by extension, my coworkers. Calling me Officer, or Screener or Knucklehead will make no difference.
Sep 9, 2018, 5:57 pm
#807
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Join Date: Sep 2006
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Comments, gsoltso:
1) Maybe if TSA had handled complaints appropriately in the first place, there wouldn't be a need for more money and staff to investigate complaints because problems would get addressed. Put some of the FAMs to work researching claims while they're sitting in first class doing nothing else noteworthy. If TSA ever researched and addressed its complaints and got caught up (so pax aren't complaining about the same misconduct over and over and over), there wouldn't be any need for a humongous department and staff.
2) did you see the video of the young boy in shorts who had his genitals rubbed - and then rubbed again at the supervisor's insistence? I know that didn't happen at GSO and you didn't personally witness it at another airport - are you suggesting you think it didn't really happen? If you saw the video and you know it's real, then it's a bit disingenuous to pretend that because you have never personally witnessed such a hands-on event, it never happens.
3) if participating in a 'mystery shopper' program means 1) you have to work for TSA and 2) you have to live in DC, then TSA does not have a suitable 'mystery shopper' program. The closest us flyers have is the lady who keeps slipping past checkpoints without getting caught.
Unfortunately, typical for TSA, instead of welcoming her as a valuable asset, TSA treated her like all other pax: she's guilty, it's her fault, shut her down, put her on a list, destroy her. Not like TSA could learn a thing or two by watching and listening to her.
'Mystery shoppers' should be non-TSA personnel, even volunteers, and all airports should regularly be visited by 'mystery shoppers'. They should include pax in wheelchairs, including those who, like my sister and Amy Van Dyken, are paralyzed, pax with crutches, medical devices, fake (or real) dressings, prosthetics, medical ports, medicines (including medical nitro pills), parents with infants and breast milk, children with autism, hearing-impaired or deaf pax. Ideally, at least initially, some of the 'mystery shoppers' should be first-time or very infrequent flyers. There should be black women with hair of all lengths, people of all ages, couples, and children.
1) Maybe if TSA had handled complaints appropriately in the first place, there wouldn't be a need for more money and staff to investigate complaints because problems would get addressed. Put some of the FAMs to work researching claims while they're sitting in first class doing nothing else noteworthy. If TSA ever researched and addressed its complaints and got caught up (so pax aren't complaining about the same misconduct over and over and over), there wouldn't be any need for a humongous department and staff.
2) did you see the video of the young boy in shorts who had his genitals rubbed - and then rubbed again at the supervisor's insistence? I know that didn't happen at GSO and you didn't personally witness it at another airport - are you suggesting you think it didn't really happen? If you saw the video and you know it's real, then it's a bit disingenuous to pretend that because you have never personally witnessed such a hands-on event, it never happens.
3) if participating in a 'mystery shopper' program means 1) you have to work for TSA and 2) you have to live in DC, then TSA does not have a suitable 'mystery shopper' program. The closest us flyers have is the lady who keeps slipping past checkpoints without getting caught.
Unfortunately, typical for TSA, instead of welcoming her as a valuable asset, TSA treated her like all other pax: she's guilty, it's her fault, shut her down, put her on a list, destroy her. Not like TSA could learn a thing or two by watching and listening to her.
'Mystery shoppers' should be non-TSA personnel, even volunteers, and all airports should regularly be visited by 'mystery shoppers'. They should include pax in wheelchairs, including those who, like my sister and Amy Van Dyken, are paralyzed, pax with crutches, medical devices, fake (or real) dressings, prosthetics, medical ports, medicines (including medical nitro pills), parents with infants and breast milk, children with autism, hearing-impaired or deaf pax. Ideally, at least initially, some of the 'mystery shoppers' should be first-time or very infrequent flyers. There should be black women with hair of all lengths, people of all ages, couples, and children.
Last edited by chollie; Sep 9, 2018 at 8:05 pm
Sep 9, 2018, 6:56 pm
#808
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,111
I have traveled pretty consistently over the last 3-4 years, and worked at larger airports pretty consistently, and I have seen some poor customer service and crappy attitudes - but I have not seen what many here describe (to include you). I especially have not seen pat downs like many here describe in this thread... There are always multiple ways to handle things, and I always push to come down on the side that satisfies mitigating any threat, with as little inconvenience to the passenger as possible. It is not always easy, and sometimes as a TSO, we have to take some additional time and work with a passenger.
The guy messing with you over the hearing aids, was completely uncalled for, and unprofessional - next time I would ask you to file the complaint, even if you skip right by us and go to the OIG group. At some point, I would hope that someone would notice a pattern of complaints.
If you would like to see the actual real time stats of GSO, they can be found Fly from PTI (generally speaking, we have about 50-55 departures a day, but we just got Spirit airlines added on, so it may be a few more). I don't think we have 100 departures a day, but our traffic is up almost 10% this year. Just for the record, I operate exactly the same way at large airports that I do here (funny point I learned early in my life, the ones that are being the biggest challenges, are the ones you should be the MOST professional with). I would gladly do a mystery shopper program, but there are already several programs that HQ operates that test the checkpoints and baggage areas in a variety of ways - plus, I do not want to live in DC.I have already gone on record stating that the basic procedures that can be seen consistently with 15 minutes of observation, should be posted in public - that would give folks a realistic expectation of the basics, a good idea of when something is out of bounds, and it would take us about 15 minutes to do. Keep the resolutions and responses to situations out of publication, but the basics that you can sit down and figure out in 15 minutes, we should be able to post that info, as it is pretty much a cat that is already out of the bag. I am also already on record as stating that I want a complaint process that involves the passenger with consistent updates - not that we are going to give you the resolution that you are necessarily wanting, but that we are taking your complaints seriously and keeping you in the loop on what is happening. One problem that there may be with that process is the increased costs, and an increase in staffing at least at the regional level. I agree that the cost would be worth it, as we would gain some buy in from the passengers, and it would make it easier to hold TSOs accountable when they do something wrong.
I am not as certain on the legislative process. There are certain aspects that are listed as SSI, and I am uncertain where those limits would be in terms of court proceedings - not that I agree with what is done, simply that I do not know where the legal system and the court system intersect on those cases.
I personally take pride in the Badge, but my attitude and work ethic would not change one iota either way. I am not here because of the badge, or the uniform, or the title, I am here to try and do as much good as I possibly can for our passengers, and by extension, my coworkers. Calling me Officer, or Screener or Knucklehead will make no difference.
The guy messing with you over the hearing aids, was completely uncalled for, and unprofessional - next time I would ask you to file the complaint, even if you skip right by us and go to the OIG group. At some point, I would hope that someone would notice a pattern of complaints.
If you would like to see the actual real time stats of GSO, they can be found Fly from PTI (generally speaking, we have about 50-55 departures a day, but we just got Spirit airlines added on, so it may be a few more). I don't think we have 100 departures a day, but our traffic is up almost 10% this year. Just for the record, I operate exactly the same way at large airports that I do here (funny point I learned early in my life, the ones that are being the biggest challenges, are the ones you should be the MOST professional with). I would gladly do a mystery shopper program, but there are already several programs that HQ operates that test the checkpoints and baggage areas in a variety of ways - plus, I do not want to live in DC.I have already gone on record stating that the basic procedures that can be seen consistently with 15 minutes of observation, should be posted in public - that would give folks a realistic expectation of the basics, a good idea of when something is out of bounds, and it would take us about 15 minutes to do. Keep the resolutions and responses to situations out of publication, but the basics that you can sit down and figure out in 15 minutes, we should be able to post that info, as it is pretty much a cat that is already out of the bag. I am also already on record as stating that I want a complaint process that involves the passenger with consistent updates - not that we are going to give you the resolution that you are necessarily wanting, but that we are taking your complaints seriously and keeping you in the loop on what is happening. One problem that there may be with that process is the increased costs, and an increase in staffing at least at the regional level. I agree that the cost would be worth it, as we would gain some buy in from the passengers, and it would make it easier to hold TSOs accountable when they do something wrong.
I am not as certain on the legislative process. There are certain aspects that are listed as SSI, and I am uncertain where those limits would be in terms of court proceedings - not that I agree with what is done, simply that I do not know where the legal system and the court system intersect on those cases.
I personally take pride in the Badge, but my attitude and work ethic would not change one iota either way. I am not here because of the badge, or the uniform, or the title, I am here to try and do as much good as I possibly can for our passengers, and by extension, my coworkers. Calling me Officer, or Screener or Knucklehead will make no difference.
I agree that we can observe pat downs and observers are reporting full on genital gropes. Just like when TSA was using the term "until resistance is met" but was too cowardly to say genitals.
We know what screeners are doing, problem is we don't know if what is being done is correct procedure or not. If TSA is going to grope my genitals I should know that up front, otherwise how can I give consent. That's why a full, complete description, of the screening process should be required to be published. If the process is effective disclosure will not weaken the search.
Wondering how many remember the screener getting mouthy with a passenger and telling them, your gonna respect this here badge? Can't find the video clip, may have been deleted. I distinctly remember that jewel of a video and feel that is how many travelers see TSA screeners and the play badges ya'll have and that's not in a good way.
TSA's Complaint process needs a complete overhaul. Legislation might well be needed but the person lodging the complaint should be a full participant of the process and know the outcome. I don't give a rats behind about a screeners privacy, not as long as TSA demands all of my personal information to just file a complaint. Lets level the playing field!
I'm tired of hearing "We can't" from TSA, lets hear some "We Can" for a change
Sep 9, 2018, 7:31 pm
#809
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: QDF
Programs: AA EXP (2MM), Marriott Tit
Posts: 1,038
Had my first truly obnoxious opt-out pat down experience earlier this month, after being randomly selected for the nude-o-scope in the Pre-Check line at PHL.
It took two TSOs 10 minutes to decide that the mysterious object they kept rubbing in my groin area was "anatomy." No surprise after the glares and eye rolls I got when I opted out.
It took two TSOs 10 minutes to decide that the mysterious object they kept rubbing in my groin area was "anatomy." No surprise after the glares and eye rolls I got when I opted out.
Sep 10, 2018, 6:27 am
#810
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Had my first truly obnoxious opt-out pat down experience earlier this month, after being randomly selected for the nude-o-scope in the Pre-Check line at PHL.
It took two TSOs 10 minutes to decide that the mysterious object they kept rubbing in my groin area was "anatomy." No surprise after the glares and eye rolls I got when I opted out.
It took two TSOs 10 minutes to decide that the mysterious object they kept rubbing in my groin area was "anatomy." No surprise after the glares and eye rolls I got when I opted out.
It that were me, I'd tell them to get a warrant while I get a lawyer. If TSA screeners are so incompetent they can't clear someone after the first assault they don't get another chance without cause.