TSA wants to get more intimate when doing passenger pat downs.
Sep 18, 2018, 9:31 am
#871
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The case was not adjudicated as it should have been by finding the victims and giving them the opportunity to file charges against the screeners involved. TSA could have found at least a couple of those men had it wanted to do so.
How many more screeners are employed by TSA who take pleasure in groping, yes groping, passengers? I would imagine there are more than a few.
How many more screeners are employed by TSA who take pleasure in groping, yes groping, passengers? I would imagine there are more than a few.
Last edited by Boggie Dog; Sep 18, 2018 at 9:44 am
Sep 18, 2018, 11:02 am
#872
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I actually supported my position, and you are helping. You have a case that has been adjudicated (Denver), and I am already on record as saying it was wrong, and the individuals involved should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. In any case where you have an adjudicated situation, and the TSO is found to have gone outside the SOP, then I am openly for that individual being prosecuted. The rest of what you have are a bunch of unsubstantiated claims. Contrary to popular belief, or what the press and politicians would have you believe, you are innocent until proven guilty in this country. Going on social media and posting something may get you a viral trip, but it means absolutely nothing until things are adjudicated. Do you really want to live in a world where we simply take punitive action on someone based solely on a claim at a website - with no proof? No evidence or investigation? There is a different word for that, it is anarchy, and all policy arguments between us aside, I think that we both agree that this country has been a country that operates under the rule of law (at least for the most part).
Then we have a communication error, or a misuse of the word fondle. The word fondle is as described above, there is a specific element of caring or ardor or amorous intent added to that word for a reason. When someone uses an open hand and "feels" your genitals, that is actually a fairly nebulous explanation. Did the individual make inadvertent contact with them while patting you down trying to make sure that the area does not have a weapon of some sort, did they grab and squeeze to try and injure, did they gaze into your eyes and try to use it as part of making a pass at you? In all of those descriptions, only the last one technically is groping - the others are a pat-down, and battery.
If you watch the video a bit more carefully, you will see screening in the groin area, the buttocks, the upper inner thigh and the female breasts.
.
Then we have a communication error, or a misuse of the word fondle. The word fondle is as described above, there is a specific element of caring or ardor or amorous intent added to that word for a reason. When someone uses an open hand and "feels" your genitals, that is actually a fairly nebulous explanation. Did the individual make inadvertent contact with them while patting you down trying to make sure that the area does not have a weapon of some sort, did they grab and squeeze to try and injure, did they gaze into your eyes and try to use it as part of making a pass at you? In all of those descriptions, only the last one technically is groping - the others are a pat-down, and battery.
If you watch the video a bit more carefully, you will see screening in the groin area, the buttocks, the upper inner thigh and the female breasts.
.
The number one rule at TSA is that that all pax are guilty until conditionally deemed 'not guilty' for one checkpoint transit. They are still suspect until the plane door closes. And even then, on rare occasions, the pax are suspect - previously cleared pax have been subjected to mandatory re-screening on arrival because of a TSA error.
2) Before you play games with the use of the word 'fondle', I suggest you research a cross-section of dictionaries, all meanings. You've chosen what suits you, even though it's clear from years of posting on this forum that you are the one most likely to use that language.
3) Once again - nothing in that video shows four fingers knuckle-deep inside someone's waistband, including the underwear waistband and nothing in that video shows fingers dipping down into the buttocks crack. It does not show a screener using her knuckles and the back of her hand to shove a woman's breasts (or prosthesis) around. It does not show someone getting groin-chopped hard enough to flinch or even double over. It doesn't show a pax being forced to peel back a sterile dressing - and the screener immediately touching the inside of the dressing, the part that will go back in contact with the open wound. It doesn't show a screener jamming her stiffened fingers under the crotch of a half-paralyzed pax in a wheelchair after snapping at the pax for not being able to lift her buttocks up to allow the screener easier access to her privates.
I don't understand your language - you seem to be suggesting that the video is actually highly deceptive, because the fine print says it only shows a 'good grope', ie, one where the pax is as clean as a new Barbie doll. The undocumented, unfilmed nastiness happens in real life beause TSOs are trained that all pax are guilty until cleared, so every body part is treated with suspicion - and acts not shown on the video to resolve those baseless suspicions.
Sep 18, 2018, 11:29 am
#873
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Funny thing about expecting apologies when the person you are targeting is not wrong - they never come.
1) As always, with all due respect, but I had to laugh out loud at seeing the words 'innocent until proven guilty' in connection with TSA.
The number one rule at TSA is that that all pax are guilty until conditionally deemed 'not guilty' for one checkpoint transit. They are still suspect until the plane door closes. And even then, on rare occasions, the pax are suspect - previously cleared pax have been subjected to mandatory re-screening on arrival because of a TSA error.
2) Before you play games with the use of the word 'fondle', I suggest you research a cross-section of dictionaries, all meanings. You've chosen what suits you, even though it's clear from years of posting on this forum that you are the one most likely to use that language.
3) Once again - nothing in that video shows four fingers knuckle-deep inside someone's waistband, including the underwear waistband and nothing in that video shows fingers dipping down into the buttocks crack. It does not show a screener using her knuckles and the back of her hand to shove a woman's breasts (or prosthesis) around. It does not show someone getting groin-chopped hard enough to flinch or even double over. It doesn't show a pax being forced to peel back a sterile dressing - and the screener immediately touching the inside of the dressing, the part that will go back in contact with the open wound. It doesn't show a screener jamming her stiffened fingers under the crotch of a half-paralyzed pax in a wheelchair after snapping at the pax for not being able to lift her buttocks up to allow the screener easier access to her privates.
I don't understand your language - you seem to be suggesting that the video is actually highly deceptive, because the fine print says it only shows a 'good grope', ie, one where the pax is as clean as a new Barbie doll. The undocumented, unfilmed nastiness happens in real life beause TSOs are trained that all pax are guilty until cleared, so every body part is treated with suspicion - and acts not shown on the video to resolve those baseless suspicions.
The number one rule at TSA is that that all pax are guilty until conditionally deemed 'not guilty' for one checkpoint transit. They are still suspect until the plane door closes. And even then, on rare occasions, the pax are suspect - previously cleared pax have been subjected to mandatory re-screening on arrival because of a TSA error.
2) Before you play games with the use of the word 'fondle', I suggest you research a cross-section of dictionaries, all meanings. You've chosen what suits you, even though it's clear from years of posting on this forum that you are the one most likely to use that language.
3) Once again - nothing in that video shows four fingers knuckle-deep inside someone's waistband, including the underwear waistband and nothing in that video shows fingers dipping down into the buttocks crack. It does not show a screener using her knuckles and the back of her hand to shove a woman's breasts (or prosthesis) around. It does not show someone getting groin-chopped hard enough to flinch or even double over. It doesn't show a pax being forced to peel back a sterile dressing - and the screener immediately touching the inside of the dressing, the part that will go back in contact with the open wound. It doesn't show a screener jamming her stiffened fingers under the crotch of a half-paralyzed pax in a wheelchair after snapping at the pax for not being able to lift her buttocks up to allow the screener easier access to her privates.
I don't understand your language - you seem to be suggesting that the video is actually highly deceptive, because the fine print says it only shows a 'good grope', ie, one where the pax is as clean as a new Barbie doll. The undocumented, unfilmed nastiness happens in real life beause TSOs are trained that all pax are guilty until cleared, so every body part is treated with suspicion - and acts not shown on the video to resolve those baseless suspicions.
1. I have never espoused the "passengers are guilty until proven innocent" thought pattern, merely that screening needs to be conducted on all - as equally as possible. You may hear others take that position, but I have always echoed the customer focused security point of view.
2. Not when many try and use a term that elicits emotion, as opposed to reason. If the folks here consistently used a term like "illegal touching" or specific actions such as the ones you list, then I can only make statements like "then the individual doing that is wrong based upon what TSA has published". When folks use terms like "nudie scanner", "fondle" and the like, they are attempting to devolve the discussion to an emotional level, rather a factual level and I try to deal on facts, or in some cases, stated opinion (which I clearly indicate it as opinion).
3. If you do not see what you are describing above, contained in the video - then I suggest that you please file complaints any time it happens...
The only disclaimer was if there are alarms involved, which triggers additional screening, and TSA has not published the additional screening processes.
TSA is not trained that "all passengers are guilty", we are taught customer focused security, consistently - if that is not what you are getting consistently, again, please file official complaints with TSA.
Last edited by TWA884; Sep 18, 2018 at 1:39 pm Reason: Merge consecutive posts by the same member
Sep 18, 2018, 12:03 pm
#874
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I never have used the word "fondle" when speaking of a TSA pat down. https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/sear...6&query=fondle
I expect an apology from you.
I expect an apology from you.
'Fondle' can mean to touch or stroke lightly - like a woman fondling her favorite string of pearls. It may or may not have a sexual component. I think it is a more accurate word to describe what happens to that young boy than ''pat". If someone can think of a more accurate word than 'fondle' or 'gently stroke', I'd like to hear it.
It's those pesky 'additional screening processes' not shown on the video that bother me.
Last edited by TWA884; Sep 18, 2018 at 1:43 pm Reason: Merge consecutive posts by the same member; please use the multi-quote function
Sep 18, 2018, 1:37 pm
#875
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As always, I appreciate the respect, and return it whole-heartedly.
1. I have never espoused the "passengers are guilty until proven innocent" thought pattern, merely that screening needs to be conducted on all - as equally as possible. You may hear others take that position, but I have always echoed the customer focused security point of view.
2. Not when many try and use a term that elicits emotion, as opposed to reason. If the folks here consistently used a term like "illegal touching" or specific actions such as the ones you list, then I can only make statements like "then the individual doing that is wrong based upon what TSA has published". When folks use terms like "nudie scanner", "fondle" and the like, they are attempting to devolve the discussion to an emotional level, rather a factual level and I try to deal on facts, or in some cases, stated opinion (which I clearly indicate it as opinion).
3. If you do not see what you are describing above, contained in the video - then I suggest that you please file complaints any time it happens...
The only disclaimer was if there are alarms involved, which triggers additional screening, and TSA has not published the additional screening processes.
TSA is not trained that "all passengers are guilty", we are taught customer focused security, consistently - if that is not what you are getting consistently, again, please file official complaints with TSA.
1. I have never espoused the "passengers are guilty until proven innocent" thought pattern, merely that screening needs to be conducted on all - as equally as possible. You may hear others take that position, but I have always echoed the customer focused security point of view.
2. Not when many try and use a term that elicits emotion, as opposed to reason. If the folks here consistently used a term like "illegal touching" or specific actions such as the ones you list, then I can only make statements like "then the individual doing that is wrong based upon what TSA has published". When folks use terms like "nudie scanner", "fondle" and the like, they are attempting to devolve the discussion to an emotional level, rather a factual level and I try to deal on facts, or in some cases, stated opinion (which I clearly indicate it as opinion).
3. If you do not see what you are describing above, contained in the video - then I suggest that you please file complaints any time it happens...
The only disclaimer was if there are alarms involved, which triggers additional screening, and TSA has not published the additional screening processes.
TSA is not trained that "all passengers are guilty", we are taught customer focused security, consistently - if that is not what you are getting consistently, again, please file official complaints with TSA.
To my knowledge I have [never] been screened by you, but I have been screened by many other TSA employees and the differences in the observed process is so vastly different from one screener to the next that I have a hard time believing they have been trained from the same book. I have encounter rude, short tempered, over-bearing, among other undesirable traits in screeners, and yes, even some kind and caring TSA employees.
You mention terms like nudie scanners. I think most people here use Naked Body Scanners which is technically exactly what these devices are doing. I prefer Whole Body Scanner as that is descriptive of what the device does. These scanners in fact peer through a persons clothing to see if something is secreted on their person. The raw image is created in the machine and the machine has the built in capacity to save the raw image. TSA claims that no images are saved so why would the requirement be made to have that capability? Fortunately TSA was forced to get rid of the original Whole Body Scanners or install Privacy Filters that ended the naked viewing rooms where screeners hid from the public looking at travelers bodies that were described by one senior TSA employee as "graphic". All along TSA claimed that the images were suitable to be viewed by young children yet had to hid the actual viewers away from public eyes. I can do math, 2+2 does not = 5 and that is what TSA was trying to sell.
I and others believe that TSA is once again trying to sell a con job to the public. "Look how harmless this pat down is" but when the actual deed is done it has no resemblance to the publicly released vanilla TSA discription! If you don't think things gets emotional when some TSA stranger grabs your testicles (or other genitalia) then you live in a totally different world than I do. Right or wrong that is what way too many people experience at the hands of TSA screeners.
I have suggested that experienced TSA screeners, like yourself, volunteer to travel around and experience TSA from a travelers viewpoint. I was very serious about that. If you could set aside your bias for TSA I think you would have an eye opening experience. I don't know what hoops it would take to make such happen but it could certainly give you a different perspective. Since there is no chance that I can experience TSA from your side of the fence that may be the only way to realize that all of these incidents that get reported aren't just from people full of hot air.
Last edited by Boggie Dog; Sep 19, 2018 at 1:09 pm
Sep 18, 2018, 2:04 pm
#876
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
"TSA is not trained that "all passengers are guilty", we are taught customer focused security, consistently.."
SNORT
TSA itself claims that it is inconsistent to fend off those pesky terrorists: "...some element of uncertainty and randomness in security operations is necessary to disrupt terrorist planning and attempted attacks."
TSA does treat every passenger as if they were guilty. If that were not so, passengers would be able to walk up to a checkpoint, and walk right on through the WTMD without having to show ID (which proves nothing), remove shoes, take out Kippie bags, food, electronics, and on and on and on. If TSA did not treat every passenger as a potential terrorist, it would not be hiding behind SSI to keep passengers in the dark about exact screening procedures. If TSA were not treating all passengers as guilty then TSA would be open and honest in communicating with passengers.
SNORT
TSA itself claims that it is inconsistent to fend off those pesky terrorists: "...some element of uncertainty and randomness in security operations is necessary to disrupt terrorist planning and attempted attacks."
TSA does treat every passenger as if they were guilty. If that were not so, passengers would be able to walk up to a checkpoint, and walk right on through the WTMD without having to show ID (which proves nothing), remove shoes, take out Kippie bags, food, electronics, and on and on and on. If TSA did not treat every passenger as a potential terrorist, it would not be hiding behind SSI to keep passengers in the dark about exact screening procedures. If TSA were not treating all passengers as guilty then TSA would be open and honest in communicating with passengers.
Sep 18, 2018, 2:21 pm
#877
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
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"TSA is not trained that "all passengers are guilty", we are taught customer focused security, consistently.."
SNORT
TSA itself claims that it is inconsistent to fend off those pesky terrorists: "...some element of uncertainty and randomness in security operations is necessary to disrupt terrorist planning and attempted attacks."
TSA does treat every passenger as if they were guilty. If that were not so, passengers would be able to walk up to a checkpoint, and walk right on through the WTMD without having to show ID (which proves nothing), remove shoes, take out Kippie bags, food, electronics, and on and on and on. If TSA did not treat every passenger as a potential terrorist, it would not be hiding behind SSI to keep passengers in the dark about exact screening procedures. If TSA were not treating all passengers as guilty then TSA would be open and honest in communicating with passengers.
SNORT
TSA itself claims that it is inconsistent to fend off those pesky terrorists: "...some element of uncertainty and randomness in security operations is necessary to disrupt terrorist planning and attempted attacks."
TSA does treat every passenger as if they were guilty. If that were not so, passengers would be able to walk up to a checkpoint, and walk right on through the WTMD without having to show ID (which proves nothing), remove shoes, take out Kippie bags, food, electronics, and on and on and on. If TSA did not treat every passenger as a potential terrorist, it would not be hiding behind SSI to keep passengers in the dark about exact screening procedures. If TSA were not treating all passengers as guilty then TSA would be open and honest in communicating with passengers.
Sep 18, 2018, 8:36 pm
#878
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Join Date: Jun 2005
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I have seen nothing in the descriptors, or the video indicating that "stroking or caressing lovingly or erotically" was a part of the process. If you watch the video, it shows you the norm for how the female breasts are cleared, and how the buttocks and groin are cleared - there is an actual physical demonstration of what to expect in the video. If something other than what is represented in this video happens, and the passenger feels that it is not according to the expectations set by this video, then they should file a complaint. The pat-down is a process used by TSA to look for WEI/dangerous items, in order to keep them off of planes, there are some differences now, compared to when I started, but the pat-downs are going to be a part of the process moving forward - policy arguments aside, it has been here since the beginning, and I do not see TSA removing it from the system now.
In practice it has been demonstrated that metal objects which do not occlude the body are not detected. Without a complete redesign the scanners are incapable of detecting small objects whose outer surface is purely metal and are attached to one's clothing in the underarm region. Larger objects would cause the clothing to hang strange and draw notice but a blasting cap is pretty small.
It's been a long time since I've cleared security without an entire box of batteries in my carryon. (They're a normal part of my camera bag.)
Thus every component of a bomb walks right through current security unless they get a pat-down or ETD detect.
Last edited by TWA884; Sep 18, 2018 at 10:32 pm Reason: Merge consecutive posts by the same member; please use the multi-quote function
Sep 18, 2018, 10:45 pm
#879
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When I get my regular full-body grope because I am physically incapable of holding my arm up for the scan, I always get the waist-to-knees treatment. Anyone in a wheelchair gets waist-to-knees, and if they are partially or fully paralyzed, it gets really ugly.
Now some may argue that because I am like the late John McCain, I can't raise my arms, but that makes me an automatic elevated security threat because TSA assumes I am lying about not being able to assume and hold the position. The focus on the area between my waistband and my knees isn't caused by anything alarming.
In fairness, I realize this isn't the call of any single TSO, but TSA's 'show the public' videos are an insult to the many physically challenged folks in the US today - including many of the folks who actually put their lives on the line defending the freedoms TSA undermines, our veterans.
There should be videos demonstrating the waist-to-knees concentration lavished on all wheelchair pax. There should be a video demonstrating the treatment someone with an ostomy bag or breast expanders (post-mastectomy, pre-rebuild surgery) or adult incontinence products or feminine products should expect. There should be videos demonstrating TSA requiring pax to remove prosthetics and ankle splints or to lift dressings and expose open wounds.
Plenty of vets who would be happy to volunteer for one of these videos - and I'm sure Amy van Dyken would be happy to volunteer for a video on how wheelchair pax are treated.
Then and only then would it be remotely reasonable for TSA to claim that there's no reason for folks to show up at a checkpoint unprepared for what's going to happen.
Sadly, instead of posting videos showing the new waistband-to-knees focus, front and rear, male and female, so pax would know what to expect. Instead, TSA notified local law enforcement, with providing the public any details, that LE might be getting calls from pax who thought they had been sexually assaulted because of the new procedures.
First, that was a classic way to get everyone upset - let them know that more intimate gropes are coming and some of it involves 'sexual' body areas. Second, leak the news so pax get the message loud and clear: local law enforcement takes orders from TSA, so don't waste your time calling. Third, if I were a TSO, I would not have been happy about this announcement, because it meant that HQ was telling me to put my hands on pax sexual areas in new and offensive ways - offensive enought that HQ though to pull local LE in, but didn't bother to think about all their frontline TSOs facing angry pax, many of whom had had their sexual areas groped, but never to the extent of the new procedures.
We, the public, will never know, but it's quite possible that one or more of the men targeted and molested in DEN either made a formal complaint via TSA's system - and TSA closed it without investigation - or called local LE - and was referred to TSA.
Now some may argue that because I am like the late John McCain, I can't raise my arms, but that makes me an automatic elevated security threat because TSA assumes I am lying about not being able to assume and hold the position. The focus on the area between my waistband and my knees isn't caused by anything alarming.
In fairness, I realize this isn't the call of any single TSO, but TSA's 'show the public' videos are an insult to the many physically challenged folks in the US today - including many of the folks who actually put their lives on the line defending the freedoms TSA undermines, our veterans.
There should be videos demonstrating the waist-to-knees concentration lavished on all wheelchair pax. There should be a video demonstrating the treatment someone with an ostomy bag or breast expanders (post-mastectomy, pre-rebuild surgery) or adult incontinence products or feminine products should expect. There should be videos demonstrating TSA requiring pax to remove prosthetics and ankle splints or to lift dressings and expose open wounds.
Plenty of vets who would be happy to volunteer for one of these videos - and I'm sure Amy van Dyken would be happy to volunteer for a video on how wheelchair pax are treated.
Then and only then would it be remotely reasonable for TSA to claim that there's no reason for folks to show up at a checkpoint unprepared for what's going to happen.
Sadly, instead of posting videos showing the new waistband-to-knees focus, front and rear, male and female, so pax would know what to expect. Instead, TSA notified local law enforcement, with providing the public any details, that LE might be getting calls from pax who thought they had been sexually assaulted because of the new procedures.
First, that was a classic way to get everyone upset - let them know that more intimate gropes are coming and some of it involves 'sexual' body areas. Second, leak the news so pax get the message loud and clear: local law enforcement takes orders from TSA, so don't waste your time calling. Third, if I were a TSO, I would not have been happy about this announcement, because it meant that HQ was telling me to put my hands on pax sexual areas in new and offensive ways - offensive enought that HQ though to pull local LE in, but didn't bother to think about all their frontline TSOs facing angry pax, many of whom had had their sexual areas groped, but never to the extent of the new procedures.
We, the public, will never know, but it's quite possible that one or more of the men targeted and molested in DEN either made a formal complaint via TSA's system - and TSA closed it without investigation - or called local LE - and was referred to TSA.
Last edited by chollie; Sep 18, 2018 at 11:14 pm
Sep 19, 2018, 6:40 am
#880
Join Date: Oct 2008
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Except that at 1:12 in the video, it clearly shows a female doing the pat down between the belt and legs - a sliding motion, with the back of both hands... And then again at 1:25, followed by the upper inner thigh pat-down.
Sep 19, 2018, 7:12 am
#881
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Again, this video was done for PR purposes only and does not depict what so many report they undergo at the hands of TSA screeners.
Sep 19, 2018, 7:34 am
#882
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That video shows no contact at all with the front of the body between the belt and the legs. That's not what happens.
In simulation it has been shown that plastic explosives carefully feathered to the body can't be detected--the scanner can see an edge, it can't actually see the explosives themselves. Deny that edge and they're invisible.
In practice it has been demonstrated that metal objects which do not occlude the body are not detected. Without a complete redesign the scanners are incapable of detecting small objects whose outer surface is purely metal and are attached to one's clothing in the underarm region. Larger objects would cause the clothing to hang strange and draw notice but a blasting cap is pretty small.
It's been a long time since I've cleared security without an entire box of batteries in my carryon. (They're a normal part of my camera bag.)
Thus every component of a bomb walks right through current security unless they get a pat-down or ETD detect.
In simulation it has been shown that plastic explosives carefully feathered to the body can't be detected--the scanner can see an edge, it can't actually see the explosives themselves. Deny that edge and they're invisible.
In practice it has been demonstrated that metal objects which do not occlude the body are not detected. Without a complete redesign the scanners are incapable of detecting small objects whose outer surface is purely metal and are attached to one's clothing in the underarm region. Larger objects would cause the clothing to hang strange and draw notice but a blasting cap is pretty small.
It's been a long time since I've cleared security without an entire box of batteries in my carryon. (They're a normal part of my camera bag.)
Thus every component of a bomb walks right through current security unless they get a pat-down or ETD detect.
It's a real shame that ETD testers as used by TSA are near worthless since they primarily false alarm on non-explosive materials.
A short primer on detonators:
Detonator
Sep 19, 2018, 8:54 am
#883
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Moderator's Note: Topic Drift
Folks,
This thread is about invasive pat-down procedures at TSA security checkpoints.
While the discussion of alternative methods to detect explosives and flammables is relevant when questioning the need for this screening method, extensive discussion of which elements are detected by ETD's and the chemical composition of detonators belong in a separate thread (FlyerTalk Rule 5).
Thank you for understanding.
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
This thread is about invasive pat-down procedures at TSA security checkpoints.
While the discussion of alternative methods to detect explosives and flammables is relevant when questioning the need for this screening method, extensive discussion of which elements are detected by ETD's and the chemical composition of detonators belong in a separate thread (FlyerTalk Rule 5).
Thank you for understanding.
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
Sep 19, 2018, 9:42 am
#884
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,424
When I get my regular full-body grope because I am physically incapable of holding my arm up for the scan, I always get the waist-to-knees treatment. Anyone in a wheelchair gets waist-to-knees, and if they are partially or fully paralyzed, it gets really ugly.
Now some may argue that because I am like the late John McCain, I can't raise my arms, but that makes me an automatic elevated security threat because TSA assumes I am lying about not being able to assume and hold the position. The focus on the area between my waistband and my knees isn't caused by anything alarming.
In fairness, I realize this isn't the call of any single TSO, but TSA's 'show the public' videos are an insult to the many physically challenged folks in the US today - including many of the folks who actually put their lives on the line defending the freedoms TSA undermines, our veterans.
There should be videos demonstrating the waist-to-knees concentration lavished on all wheelchair pax. There should be a video demonstrating the treatment someone with an ostomy bag or breast expanders (post-mastectomy, pre-rebuild surgery) or adult incontinence products or feminine products should expect. There should be videos demonstrating TSA requiring pax to remove prosthetics and ankle splints or to lift dressings and expose open wounds.
Plenty of vets who would be happy to volunteer for one of these videos - and I'm sure Amy van Dyken would be happy to volunteer for a video on how wheelchair pax are treated.
Then and only then would it be remotely reasonable for TSA to claim that there's no reason for folks to show up at a checkpoint unprepared for what's going to happen.
Sadly, instead of posting videos showing the new waistband-to-knees focus, front and rear, male and female, so pax would know what to expect. Instead, TSA notified local law enforcement, with providing the public any details, that LE might be getting calls from pax who thought they had been sexually assaulted because of the new procedures.
First, that was a classic way to get everyone upset - let them know that more intimate gropes are coming and some of it involves 'sexual' body areas. Second, leak the news so pax get the message loud and clear: local law enforcement takes orders from TSA, so don't waste your time calling. Third, if I were a TSO, I would not have been happy about this announcement, because it meant that HQ was telling me to put my hands on pax sexual areas in new and offensive ways - offensive enought that HQ though to pull local LE in, but didn't bother to think about all their frontline TSOs facing angry pax, many of whom had had their sexual areas groped, but never to the extent of the new procedures.
We, the public, will never know, but it's quite possible that one or more of the men targeted and molested in DEN either made a formal complaint via TSA's system - and TSA closed it without investigation - or called local LE - and was referred to TSA.
Now some may argue that because I am like the late John McCain, I can't raise my arms, but that makes me an automatic elevated security threat because TSA assumes I am lying about not being able to assume and hold the position. The focus on the area between my waistband and my knees isn't caused by anything alarming.
In fairness, I realize this isn't the call of any single TSO, but TSA's 'show the public' videos are an insult to the many physically challenged folks in the US today - including many of the folks who actually put their lives on the line defending the freedoms TSA undermines, our veterans.
There should be videos demonstrating the waist-to-knees concentration lavished on all wheelchair pax. There should be a video demonstrating the treatment someone with an ostomy bag or breast expanders (post-mastectomy, pre-rebuild surgery) or adult incontinence products or feminine products should expect. There should be videos demonstrating TSA requiring pax to remove prosthetics and ankle splints or to lift dressings and expose open wounds.
Plenty of vets who would be happy to volunteer for one of these videos - and I'm sure Amy van Dyken would be happy to volunteer for a video on how wheelchair pax are treated.
Then and only then would it be remotely reasonable for TSA to claim that there's no reason for folks to show up at a checkpoint unprepared for what's going to happen.
Sadly, instead of posting videos showing the new waistband-to-knees focus, front and rear, male and female, so pax would know what to expect. Instead, TSA notified local law enforcement, with providing the public any details, that LE might be getting calls from pax who thought they had been sexually assaulted because of the new procedures.
First, that was a classic way to get everyone upset - let them know that more intimate gropes are coming and some of it involves 'sexual' body areas. Second, leak the news so pax get the message loud and clear: local law enforcement takes orders from TSA, so don't waste your time calling. Third, if I were a TSO, I would not have been happy about this announcement, because it meant that HQ was telling me to put my hands on pax sexual areas in new and offensive ways - offensive enought that HQ though to pull local LE in, but didn't bother to think about all their frontline TSOs facing angry pax, many of whom had had their sexual areas groped, but never to the extent of the new procedures.
We, the public, will never know, but it's quite possible that one or more of the men targeted and molested in DEN either made a formal complaint via TSA's system - and TSA closed it without investigation - or called local LE - and was referred to TSA.
I find it difficult to argue your point about the videos. I have been on record indicating that our basic processes that can be seen sitting in front of a checkpoint for 15 minutes should be published. I like the ideas of having videos showing the entire process, and some of the ways we screen passengers with assistive devices. It would be a way for us to set a more realistic expectation for the traveling public. Of course, I am merely a peon, so those types of decisions will have to come from way above my pay grade.
Sep 19, 2018, 11:40 am
#885
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,114
Not being able to raise your arms does not mean that you are necessarily more dangerous or more of a threat, it simply means that you are not able to participate in some forms of screening (namely the AIT). The same goes with limited mobility, limited range of motion, inability to walk or stand, and disabilities that are not necessarily noticeable (such as cognitive or emotional challenges). We have plans and procedures for all kinds of situations involving different types of disabilities, and to try and help the individuals that have them.
I find it difficult to argue your point about the videos. I have been on record indicating that our basic processes that can be seen sitting in front of a checkpoint for 15 minutes should be published. I like the ideas of having videos showing the entire process, and some of the ways we screen passengers with assistive devices. It would be a way for us to set a more realistic expectation for the traveling public. Of course, I am merely a peon, so those types of decisions will have to come from way above my pay grade.
I find it difficult to argue your point about the videos. I have been on record indicating that our basic processes that can be seen sitting in front of a checkpoint for 15 minutes should be published. I like the ideas of having videos showing the entire process, and some of the ways we screen passengers with assistive devices. It would be a way for us to set a more realistic expectation for the traveling public. Of course, I am merely a peon, so those types of decisions will have to come from way above my pay grade.