TSA wants to get more intimate when doing passenger pat downs.
Apr 4, 2017, 9:26 am
#421
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
In the current thread about the LTSO, in the Myth thread or wait for the weekly "look what we found" thread to appear?
Apr 4, 2017, 10:05 am
#422
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,165
Apr 4, 2017, 11:03 am
#423
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,425
Given the content of the victim's writing, is this person going to be an effective and sympathetic witness? I'm disposed to be favorable to the account, but yet I found a lot of the article to be off-putting.
Last edited by nachtnebel; Apr 4, 2017 at 11:56 am Reason: fixed pronoun
Apr 5, 2017, 5:28 am
#424
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,424
OK, the puffers worked great. Perhaps just some re engineering of the filtration systems was all that was needed.
But please explain if you can why an alarm on a laptop or other physical item results in a pat down of a person. How does that pat down resolve the alarm on the physical item?
But please explain if you can why an alarm on a laptop or other physical item results in a pat down of a person. How does that pat down resolve the alarm on the physical item?
Apr 5, 2017, 5:33 am
#425
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Greensboro
Programs: TSA
Posts: 2,424
Puffer and AIT cost ratio was not much different to purchase, installation costs more for the AIT (something to do with more infrastructure), and maintenance for the AIT is next to nil compared to the maintenance for the puffers.
So, a little bit more up front for the AIT, waaaaay more on the back end for the puffers.
Apr 5, 2017, 8:39 am
#426
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,165
- Trying like crazy to get bad residue from somewhere on a person's body so they can take you in the private room and really work you over.
- Related to the above, to call the airport cops who can do all sorts of searches and warrant checks that they wouldn't be allowed to legally do anywhere else except at the airport.
- Hoping to find a joint or two carefully hidden on the victim's body
- Harassment and punishment, along with aggression
<deleted by moderator>
SSI, as one category of Controlled Unclassified Information (CUI) is completely out of control and has no oversight and no challenge procedures.
Last edited by TWA884; Apr 5, 2017 at 10:10 am Reason: Redacted quotes of deleted posts
Apr 5, 2017, 10:18 am
#427
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: oneword Emerald
Posts: 20,653
Moderator's Note: Personal Exchanges
FlyerTalk Rule 12.2:
Posts have been deleted.
Avoid Getting Personal
If you have a difference of opinion with another member, challenge the idea — NOT the person. Getting personal with another member is not allowed. Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming will not be tolerated.
If you have a difference of opinion with another member, challenge the idea — NOT the person. Getting personal with another member is not allowed. Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming will not be tolerated.
The next members who get personal with other members will earn a minimum seven says time off from their posting privileges.
Please consider this to be your only warning.
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
Apr 6, 2017, 2:37 am
#428
Suspended
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Can't say I'd be surprised to see TSA rubbing the genitals of four-year old girls and boys:
"Do you want to fly today?" My answer is, "I have my own ways to leave without consenting to your grabbing of my genitals and the genitals of those under my care."
Last I checked, there are certain acts upon children to which even parents aren't legally entitled to consent for or on behalf of young minors. I'm just waiting for this kind of thing to end up making its way into an international child custody dispute where the USG is told to go to pound sand about a non-US parent refusing to return a child to the US because the US parent may consent (or has previously consented) to the child having his/her genitals groped in public for no good reason during the trip(s).
In the interest of "security", the US wants children's genitals repeatedly pawed by the TSA? So much for the US protecting children now and in the future -- even more so the future, as young children whose private parts are routinely subjected to questionable adult contact are probably more likely to be the pedophiles of the future than would have otherwise been the case if not for the exposure to this kind of contact.
A follow-up: In FRA, the SSSS on my boarding pass was treated as no big deal. The agents apologized profusely, and the extra security efforts (a second bag check, a quick, unintrusive pat down, and another trip through the scanner) took about 8 minutes total. They made a point of making sure my daughter was left unmolested, and made sure that all of my stuff was ready to go when they were finished.
We connected in DFW, and there it was completely different. TSA closed down a lane just for us, and we got "swarmed." I got the full workover - genital pat down, bag dump, all my electronics pulled out and disassembled, and pawed over. They acted like they'd possibly caught a major terrorist. They took our passports away for a while and copied them. After they were done with me, they did the same to my little daughter, even though she was not SSSS. I was told she had to get the workover along with me, or we could not proceed. They reduced her to tears, and they wouldn't let me console her until after they had finished with both of us. Total process took more than half an hour, and TSA left all my stuff in disarray for me to deal with. Total jerks, especially since it was crystal-clear that the whole exercise was useless.
We connected in DFW, and there it was completely different. TSA closed down a lane just for us, and we got "swarmed." I got the full workover - genital pat down, bag dump, all my electronics pulled out and disassembled, and pawed over. They acted like they'd possibly caught a major terrorist. They took our passports away for a while and copied them. After they were done with me, they did the same to my little daughter, even though she was not SSSS. I was told she had to get the workover along with me, or we could not proceed. They reduced her to tears, and they wouldn't let me console her until after they had finished with both of us. Total process took more than half an hour, and TSA left all my stuff in disarray for me to deal with. Total jerks, especially since it was crystal-clear that the whole exercise was useless.
Last I checked, there are certain acts upon children to which even parents aren't legally entitled to consent for or on behalf of young minors. I'm just waiting for this kind of thing to end up making its way into an international child custody dispute where the USG is told to go to pound sand about a non-US parent refusing to return a child to the US because the US parent may consent (or has previously consented) to the child having his/her genitals groped in public for no good reason during the trip(s).
In the interest of "security", the US wants children's genitals repeatedly pawed by the TSA? So much for the US protecting children now and in the future -- even more so the future, as young children whose private parts are routinely subjected to questionable adult contact are probably more likely to be the pedophiles of the future than would have otherwise been the case if not for the exposure to this kind of contact.
Last edited by GUWonder; Apr 6, 2017 at 2:53 am
Apr 6, 2017, 3:30 am
#429
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 2,403
GUWonder,
I'm glad that everything went smoothly at Frankfurt. Although I've heard a handful of horror stories, I've been there many times without incident. Even when pulled aside for secondary frisking, they've always been unobtrusive, polite, and fast.
I understand and agree with your take on this as paedophilia. But I I don't think it's going to be as influential of an argument. There was indeed at least one TSA staff member caught deliberately frisking only passengers he found attractive... with the collusion of his coworker. But I think it's probably harder to catch these in action.
From my standpoint, (or "tsandpoint,") I have tried to think of arguments that and questions. The only problem is that nobody seems to listen or care.
I'm glad that everything went smoothly at Frankfurt. Although I've heard a handful of horror stories, I've been there many times without incident. Even when pulled aside for secondary frisking, they've always been unobtrusive, polite, and fast.
I understand and agree with your take on this as paedophilia. But I I don't think it's going to be as influential of an argument. There was indeed at least one TSA staff member caught deliberately frisking only passengers he found attractive... with the collusion of his coworker. But I think it's probably harder to catch these in action.
From my standpoint, (or "tsandpoint,") I have tried to think of arguments that and questions. The only problem is that nobody seems to listen or care.
- This is "over the top," and no reasonable person can explain why a pre-teenager in shorts should be frisked to such an extent without sounding any alarms.
- Similar frisking for adults makes no sense, particularly when the TSA is proud of its technology that can identify the area of the body where an "anomaly" has occurred.
- From a legal standpoint, would a reasonable person anticipate this level of intrusive frisking prior to boarding a routine commercial airline flight in the United States?
- To my knowledge, there have been no studies about the psychological impact of these screenings. Has the TSA conducted any studies about the impact of repeated mental and physical intrusion? How might these repeated experiences affect passengers? Although flying is a "right," it is often a necessity.
- What about psychological impact on TSA staff? Although they have the right to quit their jobs, are they suffering psychological repercussions of having to inflict what appear to be sexually intrusive searches of minors?
- In a world since PSA 1770, why are all airline and airport staff exempt from these searches? Is their background check materially more conclusive than Global Entry, NEXUS/SENTRI, or paid PreCheck?
Apr 6, 2017, 3:45 am
#430
Suspended
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
From my standpoint, (or "tsandpoint,") I have tried to think of arguments that and questions. The only problem is that nobody seems to listen or care.
- This is "over the top," and no reasonable person can explain why a pre-teenager in shorts should be frisked to such an extent without sounding any alarms.
- Similar frisking for adults makes no sense, particularly when the TSA is proud of its technology that can identify the area of the body where an "anomaly" has occurred.
- From a legal standpoint, would a reasonable person anticipate this level of intrusive frisking prior to boarding a routine commercial airline flight in the United States?
- To my knowledge, there have been no studies about the psychological impact of these screenings. Has the TSA conducted any studies about the impact of repeated mental and physical intrusion? How might these repeated experiences affect passengers? Although flying is a "right," it is often a necessity.
- What about psychological impact on TSA staff? Although they have the right to quit their jobs, are they suffering psychological repercussions of having to inflict what appear to be sexually intrusive searches of minors?
- In a world since PSA 1770, why are all airline and airport staff exempt from these searches? Is their background check materially more conclusive than Global Entry, NEXUS/SENTRI, or paid PreCheck?
Apr 6, 2017, 6:40 am
#431
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,526
Can't say I'd be surprised to see TSA rubbing the genitals of four-year old girls and boys:
"Do you want to fly today?" My answer is, "I have my own ways to leave without consenting to your grabbing of my genitals and the genitals of those under my care."
Last I checked, there are certain acts upon children to which even parents aren't legally entitled to consent for or on behalf of young minors. I'm just waiting for this kind of thing to end up making its way into an international child custody dispute where the USG is told to go to pound sand about a non-US parent refusing to return a child to the US because the US parent may consent (or has previously consented) to the child having his/her genitals groped in public for no good reason during the trip(s).
In the interest of "security", the US wants children's genitals repeatedly pawed by the TSA? So much for the US protecting children now and in the future -- even more so the future, as young children whose private parts are routinely subjected to questionable adult contact are probably more likely to be the pedophiles of the future than would have otherwise been the case if not for the exposure to this kind of contact.
"Do you want to fly today?" My answer is, "I have my own ways to leave without consenting to your grabbing of my genitals and the genitals of those under my care."
Last I checked, there are certain acts upon children to which even parents aren't legally entitled to consent for or on behalf of young minors. I'm just waiting for this kind of thing to end up making its way into an international child custody dispute where the USG is told to go to pound sand about a non-US parent refusing to return a child to the US because the US parent may consent (or has previously consented) to the child having his/her genitals groped in public for no good reason during the trip(s).
In the interest of "security", the US wants children's genitals repeatedly pawed by the TSA? So much for the US protecting children now and in the future -- even more so the future, as young children whose private parts are routinely subjected to questionable adult contact are probably more likely to be the pedophiles of the future than would have otherwise been the case if not for the exposure to this kind of contact.
I'm not certain that being sexually assaulted by TSA could lead to someone becoming a pedophile. It could, however, lead to a child being more likely to be the victim of a pedophile, due to confusion about who can touch them. Experiencing more than one episode of sexual assault at the hands of the TSA can easily lead to psychological issues. Issues of confusion as above, trust issues with parents, general behavior issues.
And the repercussions don't just happen with children, they happen with adults also.
GUWonder,
I'm glad that everything went smoothly at Frankfurt. Although I've heard a handful of horror stories, I've been there many times without incident. Even when pulled aside for secondary frisking, they've always been unobtrusive, polite, and fast.
I understand and agree with your take on this as paedophilia. But I I don't think it's going to be as influential of an argument. There was indeed at least one TSA staff member caught deliberately frisking only passengers he found attractive... with the collusion of his coworker. But I think it's probably harder to catch these in action.
From my standpoint, (or "tsandpoint,") I have tried to think of arguments that and questions. The only problem is that nobody seems to listen or care.
I'm glad that everything went smoothly at Frankfurt. Although I've heard a handful of horror stories, I've been there many times without incident. Even when pulled aside for secondary frisking, they've always been unobtrusive, polite, and fast.
I understand and agree with your take on this as paedophilia. But I I don't think it's going to be as influential of an argument. There was indeed at least one TSA staff member caught deliberately frisking only passengers he found attractive... with the collusion of his coworker. But I think it's probably harder to catch these in action.
From my standpoint, (or "tsandpoint,") I have tried to think of arguments that and questions. The only problem is that nobody seems to listen or care.
- This is "over the top," and no reasonable person can explain why a pre-teenager in shorts should be frisked to such an extent without sounding any alarms.
- Similar frisking for adults makes no sense, particularly when the TSA is proud of its technology that can identify the area of the body where an "anomaly" has occurred.
- From a legal standpoint, would a reasonable person anticipate this level of intrusive frisking prior to boarding a routine commercial airline flight in the United States?
- To my knowledge, there have been no studies about the psychological impact of these screenings. Has the TSA conducted any studies about the impact of repeated mental and physical intrusion? How might these repeated experiences affect passengers? Although flying is a "right," it is often a necessity.
- What about psychological impact on TSA staff? Although they have the right to quit their jobs, are they suffering psychological repercussions of having to inflict what appear to be sexually intrusive searches of minors?
- In a world since PSA 1770, why are all airline and airport staff exempt from these searches? Is their background check materially more conclusive than Global Entry, NEXUS/SENTRI, or paid PreCheck?
As for the TSA screeners, I am convinced that more than a few, for the first time in their lives, have "authority" over others and take full advantage of that authority. Either that or the Stanford Prison Experiment outcome is rampant among TSA screeners. Perhaps those outcomes are wworked into the TSA "training" program.
Last edited by TWA884; Apr 6, 2017 at 9:49 am Reason: Merge consecutive posts
Apr 6, 2017, 7:28 am
#432
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,129
The highlighted section above was mentioned in several discussions that I read about the assault of the young boy.
I'm not certain that being sexually assaulted by TSA could lead to someone becoming a pedophile. It could, however, lead to a child being more likely to be the victim of a pedophile, due to confusion about who can touch them. Experiencing more than one episode of sexual assault at the hands of the TSA can easily lead to psychological issues. Issues of confusion as above, trust issues with parents, general behavior issues.
And the repercussions don't just happen with children, they happen with adults also.
I'm not certain that being sexually assaulted by TSA could lead to someone becoming a pedophile. It could, however, lead to a child being more likely to be the victim of a pedophile, due to confusion about who can touch them. Experiencing more than one episode of sexual assault at the hands of the TSA can easily lead to psychological issues. Issues of confusion as above, trust issues with parents, general behavior issues.
And the repercussions don't just happen with children, they happen with adults also.
Apr 6, 2017, 7:37 am
#433
Join Date: Dec 2007
Programs: DL, WN, US, Avis, AA
Posts: 662
In my opinion the answer to this one is simple. TSA brass knows the push back from aircrew, airport workers, airlines and airport authorities would be overwhelming.
Apr 6, 2017, 12:55 pm
#435
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 580
A follow-up: In FRA, the SSSS on my boarding pass was treated as no big deal. The agents apologized profusely, and the extra security efforts (a second bag check, a quick, unintrusive pat down, and another trip through the scanner) took about 8 minutes total. They made a point of making sure my daughter was left unmolested, and made sure that all of my stuff was ready to go when they were finished.
Since a patdown is already involved in the process, it seems like it would make sense for everyone to opt-out when receiving a SSSS.