GUWonder

Not saying that. What I'm saying is that for haraSSSSment targets, the TSA wants no one -- beside the TSA screeners -- and no separate object -- beside objects applied by the TSA -- in physical contact with the haraSSSSment target during the groping.

kmersh

So my Wife just called me from the SkyClub, she beeped while walking through the metal detector and the man said you are going to have to go back through and use the Body Scanner.

She said, no worries, but I am unable to raise my left arm, which lead to a pregnant pause (as described by my Wife) and then the TSA Employee calling for a Supervisor.

Apparently the discussion went something like, she is a random for the Body Scanner, but she is unable to raise her left arm due to a medical issue and she has a note from her MD. The Supervisor said but we were told if randomly selected opt-out is not allowed, to which my Wife said I am ok to use the machine I just cannot raise my left arm and in the past I have used the machine with my left arm lowered.

Apparently there was more pausing and then well, have her use the machine and keep her left arm lowered and manually clear the left arm which will light up on the machine and with that the Supervisor walked off.

So, all I can say for sure is that if you are willing to use the machine, but are unable to raise an arm (for example) you might still have to use the machine but will be allowed to keep the injured arm lowered.

GUWonder

Does the TSA have a clue about how the strip search machine using ATR can be fooled by people not taking the full surrender position in the machines?

The GAO needs to investigate this better for the TSA.

petaluma1

Was she also patted down after going through the scanner?

Yet another example that it's not going to be "very few" who get hit with the no opt-out procedure.

GUWonder

The TSA misled the public and Congress yet again? This wouldn't be the first time.

petaluma1

If pushed to the wall, I'm sure TSA will claim that the "very few" means the "very few" people who opt-out of the scanner, as they don't have the cojones to come right out and way it will be for all opt outs.

I am anxiously awaiting this playing out in court.

Boggie Dog

Why?

GAO investigated the TSA BDO program proving it to be a waste of money and TSA rejected GAO's report.

Apparently not only can TSA write law but ignore both congress and other oversight authorities.

Boggie Dog

It's not just the Opt Outs. Apparently anyone can be randomly selected and forced through the Strip Search Machines under current TSA policy.

GUWonder

If the failings of these strip search machines were more widely known, there may be greater chance of Congress de-funding the strip search machines. Of course it could also go the way of the TSA voodoo "security" of "profiling"/BD, as you indicated.

kmersh

No, she said they just swabbed her hands, left arm and then wished her a nice flight.

I forgot to mention (for whatever it is worth) in my prior post, she did ask what if at another airport she might be forced to raise her left arm and the TSA Employee said, having a shoulder injury myself, hopefully it will not come to that, but if it does, I would call the Police and the local news.

At the end of the day all of this silly and just shows what a farce the entire process is, but there is little to nothing that I can do about it and the few things that I could do, will not change the situation in the slightest, especially as another poster pointed out even a GAO report can be ignored.

chollie

I disagree. It doesn't matter how widely known the limitations of the strip search machines are. It doesn't matter one bit.

The decisions are made by corrupt people with virtually unquestioned access to taxpayer money. Corrupt TSA officials and corrupt politicians and corrupt industry connections will continue to make profit the only thing that influences decisions.

I'm sure that it's no coincidence that this is all occurring the 'end-of-life' of the current NoS's is rapidly approaching. Who knew that American engineers, best in the world, were incapable of building a machine with a longer life span? Heck, we have airplanes decades older than the current NoS's and somehow someone manages to keep them going.

This shift to 'opt outs are, like everything else, a matter of screener discretion', rolled out as we're getting word that the NoS's will have to be replaced, tells me that someone intends to replace WTMDs and the current NoS's with all-new hideously expensive machinery that won't provide any more security than before - but that will greatly enrich a few select bank accounts.

I expect that move to be followed by pressure from our corrupt TSA HQ and politicians to force other nations to install US hardware to screen US-bound flights (or over-flights). The possibilities for corruption and huge payouts are boundless.

WillCAD

If ATR were anywhere NEAR as effective as a human being at interpreting patterns, there wouldn't be so many false positives resulting in targeted area pat-downs, caused by sweat, folds of cloth, an ID mistakenly left in the pocket, etc.

But, you know, TSA says it is, and you believe them, right? ^

In a perfect world, neither of these machines would ever have been deployed for use in administrative searches, but been kept strictly to prisons and classified military installations where invasive search methodologies may be used.

In the real world, however, the effectiveness of the machines, with or without ATR, is irrelevant next to the health dangers of the BSX. I don't care if it sees through you - which, incidentally, it actually DOES, since you can see finger and hand bones in many of the example images on the net - the machine uses dangerous, carcinogenic ionizing radiation in its scans, and should thus never be used on a living being, not even in prisons.

FliesWay2Much

The NoSs are highly effective for what they were intended for: Security Theater. The TSA wins every time local TV goes out to the airport and shows long lines with people having their IDs checked and assuming the surrender position. It's easy to find a Kettle or two who absolutely loves all of this because it makes him or her feel safe -- note use of the word "feel" in almost all of their interviews. The bang for the buck for these things approaches zero. Propaganda Village with their weekly body count of big heavy metal guns found at checkpoints is proof-positive. Somebody needs to go to jail for allowing deployment of a system that irradiates the citizenry with ionizing industrial radiation that concentrates on the skin and in the eyes. That's just downright criminally negligent.

kmersh

I had to chuckle, a while back I was in line at the ORD and the guy in front of me comments...gee that is the same machine that they had at the jail.

Credit where credit is due, the guy knew exactly what to do when it was his turn to use the machine as I guess he must have used it at the jail he was incarcerated in.

To be clear (I know that I have said it before), I do not have a background in security so whatever I say is based on a layman understanding of things, but it seems to me that the entire TSA process is there just because something is better than nothing.

I once heard a TSA Employee describe airport security as reactionary "whack a mole", which visually seems to be exactly what TSA does. I am a Physician, much of what I do is based on evidence, infarct [in fact] I practice Evidence Based Medicine, which means that I make my decisions based on evidence derived from research.

It seems that TSA does not practice (again from a layman point of view) evidence based security (is there such a thing?) The whole no opt-out thing just seems poorly thought out to me, maybe there is good reason for it, I honestly have no idea, but it seems the implementation is poor as my Wife has not experienced an issue while another member here seems to have had his medical disability questioned when the person was in a wheelchair and was not allowed to opt-out based on his/her medical disability.

petaluma1

Love your slip of the fingers on the keyboard!