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FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate-687/)
-   -   TSA going to stop allowing NOS opt-out? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/checkpoints-borders-policy-debate/1733565-tsa-going-stop-allowing-nos-opt-out.html)

txflyer77 Dec 22, 2015 12:16 pm
TSA going to stop allowing NOS opt-out?
 
http://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/fil...a-32-d-ait.pdf

From the abstract:

TSA is updating the AIT PIA to reflect a change to the
operating protocol regarding the ability of individuals to opt opt-out of AIT screening in favor of
physical screening. While passengers may generally decline AIT screening in favor of physical
screening, TSA may direct mandatory AIT screening for some passengers.

petaluma1 Dec 22, 2015 12:35 pm
I presume that the reasons for such mandatory NOS screening are SSI and we won't get a hint until we hear from some who have been forced into the machine. Can't wait until we also hear from the first people to refuse to step into the machine.

GUWonder Dec 22, 2015 1:08 pm
Originally Posted by txflyer77 (Post 25902987)
Can't say I'm surprised. I was already informed that they want to subject a much higher proportion of passengers to mandatory WTMD+ strip-search machine screening of passenger bodies.

Wheelchair assistance as the opt-out protocol? Arm in sling as the opt-out protocol?

joelfreak Dec 22, 2015 2:30 pm
Being that TSA agents like to say any medical exception is an "opt-out" I would love to see how they handle this now. I have seen agents say that since THEY think insulin pumps can go through the AIT, if you 'choose' not to go through with one, you are opting out. Does that mean that TSA agents now can practice medicine?

petaluma1 Dec 22, 2015 2:41 pm
Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 25903252)
Can't say I'm surprised. I was already informed that they want to subject a much higher proportion of passengers to mandatory WTMD+ strip-search machine screening of passenger bodies.

Wheelchair assistance as the opt-out protocol? Arm in sling as the opt-out protocol?
I've got a vision in my head of 20 passengers standing in line all with their arms in slings. Perhaps that should be the next protest: Arm in a Sling Day

txflyer77 Dec 22, 2015 3:07 pm
Originally Posted by petaluma1 (Post 25903744)
I've got a vision in my head of 20 passengers standing in line all with their arms in slings. Perhaps that should be the next protest: Arm in a Sling Day
If we get 500 people to commit it won't even cost that much!

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detai...0.1.bjp3Sz&s=p

:D

FliesWay2Much Dec 22, 2015 3:12 pm
Originally Posted by petaluma1 (Post 25903744)
Quote:





Originally Posted by GUWonder


Can't say I'm surprised. I was already informed that they want to subject a much higher proportion of passengers to mandatory WTMD+ strip-search machine screening of passenger bodies.

Wheelchair assistance as the opt-out protocol? Arm in sling as the opt-out protocol?




I've got a vision in my head of 20 passengers standing in line all with their arms in slings. Perhaps that should be the next protest: Arm in a Sling Day
I'm in....

FriendlySkies Dec 22, 2015 5:12 pm
Disgusted to see the TSA pushing this along. What are the security considerations going to be? Color of skin, all pax wearing orange shirts that day get NoS'd, etc? Interesting to see if anybody who is forced to use the machine will claim racial discrimination and file a lawsuit.

In terms of the medical (can't raise arms) exemption, I wouldn't be surprised if they scanned the perp :rolleyes: with their arms down and then did a resolution pat down around the arms..

Originally Posted by joelfreak (Post 25903676)
Being that TSA agents like to say any medical exception is an "opt-out" I would love to see how they handle this now. I have seen agents say that since THEY think insulin pumps can go through the AIT, if you 'choose' not to go through with one, you are opting out. Does that mean that TSA agents now can practice medicine?
Clerks have been practicing medicine for years. Doubtful anything will change on that front.

petaluma1 Dec 22, 2015 5:59 pm
TSA receiving push back at @AskTSA about this. Initially today they were saying people could always opt out - now their tune has changed to

Passengers undergoing screening will still have the option to decline an AIT screening in favor of a pat-down. However, some passengers will still be required to undergo AIT screenings as warranted by security considerations in order to safeguard transportation security.
Perhaps they are thinking of doing away with the trips to the backroom?

I say force them to articulate the reason for trying to force you into the NOS.

jkhuggins Dec 22, 2015 6:37 pm
Originally Posted by petaluma1 (Post 25904621)
I say force them to articulate the reason for trying to force you into the NOS.
And, how, pray tell, are we going to force them to do that? Since most of us can't perform Jedi mind tricks, there's nothing that can compel them to give us this answer.

Boggie Dog Dec 22, 2015 6:56 pm
Originally Posted by joelfreak (Post 25903676)
Being that TSA agents like to say any medical exception is an "opt-out" I would love to see how they handle this now. I have seen agents say that since THEY think insulin pumps can go through the AIT, if you 'choose' not to go through with one, you are opting out. Does that mean that TSA agents now can practice medicine?
What do you mean by now? TSA screeners have confiscated life saving medicine, needed liquids, and in my case required me to remove a back brace I was under real Doctors orders to wear after back surgery.

I don't understand how a change this great isn't done through provision of the Administrative Procedures Act.

FliesWay2Much Dec 22, 2015 8:25 pm
Originally Posted by petaluma1 (Post 25904621)
TSA receiving push back at @AskTSA about this. Initially today they were saying people could always opt out - now their tune has changed to


Quote:




Passengers undergoing screening will still have the option to decline an AIT screening in favor of a pat-down. However, some passengers will still be required to undergo AIT screenings as warranted by security considerations in order to safeguard transportation security.




Perhaps they are thinking of doing away with the trips to the backroom?

I say force them to articulate the reason for trying to force you into the NOS.
They will never get rid of the back room because it instills fear and compliance.

cottonmather0 Dec 22, 2015 10:18 pm
Oh joy. Now we MUST assume the criminal pose or we can't fly.

So now instead of precheck, if I get one of the arbitrary alarms walking through.... not cool.

stifle Dec 23, 2015 7:27 am
Sigh. This is not what I needed to read today. What next? :(

mikeef Dec 23, 2015 8:14 am
Originally Posted by petaluma1 (Post 25904621)
TSA receiving push back at @AskTSA about this. Initially today they were saying people could always opt out - now their tune has changed to



Perhaps they are thinking of doing away with the trips to the backroom?

I say force them to articulate the reason for trying to force you into the NOS.
It's clearly all a mistake. When they first put in the NoS, they told us that the machines would be secondary security. So obviously, they would never institute a policy of refusing opt-outs because it would mean going back on something that they had already promised.

Mike


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