Savvy Traveler

I certainly appreciate the sentiment behind the OP's post. I get physically angry when reading many of the threads in this forum. I've been lucky that my home airport doesn't have naked scanners and I've been able to SDOO elsewhere. But that streak will eventually come to an end.

When the naked scans and sexual assault patdowns debuted, I shared the OP's opinion. No way was TSA going to touch me like that.

But then it occurred to me that travel is one of the most important things in my world. How dare TSA try to take that away from me?

I will give them hell, file sexual assault charges where appropriate and do whatever I can to bring down this system. But like HELL the TSA is going to keep me away from flying.

WillCAD

Commitment is not a binary proposition; there are more than just two grades of commitment (Yes or No).

My own level of commitment is not the highest, but not the lowest, either. I have acquiesced, reluctantly, to the outrageous and disgusting demand that I pass through a machine which allows the government to look beneath my clothing in order to board a plane. I protest this violative measure by corresponding with my Congressional representatives and state elected officials, though I have to admit that I think my protests equate to shouting at a brick wall.

But I will not submit to a pat-down. I made that decision several years ago, when I witnessed the indignity of a gate-rape at LAS. It shocked and sickened me that people were actually being patted down at the gate, without cause or warrant, and I decided right then and there that, if the TSOs approached me and ordered me to submit or not fly, I wouldn't fly. I knew that I'd have to rent a car one-way from LAS to Baltimore, but I was be okay with that. Fortunately, it didn't come to that.

Now that the ridiculous scope-and-grope regimen has become the standard screening method, my chances of getting selected for a pat-down, even though I only fly 2-4 segments per year, are significantly higher. I haven't yet given up my right to fly, but I will do so if I am ever given a choice between flying or a rubdown.

I WILL NOT ALLOW THEM TO TOUCH ME. I am completely committed to that, I will not change my mind, and I will give up my right to fly in order to stick to that commitment.

1) The alternatives have been discussed ad nauseum on FT, but I'll list my own preferences for screening pax and baggage:
* WTMD
* HHMD
* ETD "puffer" portals
* ETD swabs
* Sniffer dogs
* X-ray scanning of carry-on bags
* Visual inspection of carry-on bags

AIT scanners, much as I despise them, COULD be used by LEOs for thorough screening, but ONLY with a warrant or articulable probable cause that can be defended in court.

Physical searches of pax could also ONLY be done by LEOs, with warrant or probable cause, and ONLY in those areas of the body which which alert the HHMD or sniffer dog. A full-body rubdown of the type now in use should NEVER be performed without a warrant from a judge, or incidental to arrest.

Yes. When scope-and-grope became the standard, I participated in a lengthy thread on a Disney World themed message board, in which I actually did change one or two peoples' minds about the legality, Constitutionality, and morality of the scope-and-grope methodology.

This "same gender" nonsense is a complete straw-man. Americans are actually MORE uncomfortable having intimate physical contact with a stranger of the same gender than they are with a stranger of the opposite gender. Call it homophobia if you will, but it exists, and it completely wipes out the unspoken argument that "As long as the groper is the same gender, that eliminates any sexual overtones from the rubdown procedure." It's hogwash, because any time someone rubs your body in an intimate fashion, there are sexual overtones, no matter how much you might say otherwise.

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* All bolding in quoted posts above is mine

exbayern

And it isn't just an American viewpoint. I have often said that even for cultures which are more accepting of nudity, the difference is that one makes the choice to remove clothes in public.

I was sitting in my car today and a woman walked by, stopped, and removed her shirt (no bra) and proceeded to smoke a cigarette. (It was about 31 degrees and humid and I think that she wanted to cool off) I think that she didn't realise that I was there, and since nobody but her male partner was in view, she probably felt comfortable removing it.

I suspect that had we been in airport, and had she been ordered to remove her shirt, it would have been a very different scenario.

(And yes, I realise that in the US today that isn't happening very often - although many of us have been ordered to do so, for me at SAT - but the 'Americans are prudes' argument has often been used as justification for the scanners and the pat downs) It's a false argument - calling travellers 'too prudish' doesn't make the current situation acceptable.

RATM

I rarely fly, so a boycott wouldn't be that effective in my case. Not that I won't find alternatives if I can. But last time I did fly, I looked like this:



For a rare flyer, I'd say that is enough "cred". If I run into other opportunities, I'll take them.

RATM

Which is an admission that the patdown is sexually invasive.

WillCAD

There is also context to consider. Americans are more prudish about nudity and partial nudity, with some exceptions. At places where people swim, such as beaches, pools, and water parks, as well as private back yards across the country, far less clothing is worn than in most public places. In fact, swimwear that is perfectly acceptable at a public beach would likely get you arrested for indecent exposure on many public streets.

**NOTE: FOr those Americans who are unfamiliar with Metric temperatures, 31C is about 89F. So it's a little hot, but if it's very humid, it can feel really, really hot.

52pickup

THAT is an excellent idea.

52pickup

Trained agents - ones that profile passengers (not on race, but on behavior). Naked scanners have not stopped a single terrorist.

Changed our cruise plans because of the non-opt-out availability at LHR. Going to take JoeBas' advice and let the cruise line know.

Brewfangrb

Oh, well, in THAT case...carry on! No problem, you whiny crybabies who object to having their genitals touched. It's by the same gender!

I'm sorry...when did such an event get prevented by the TSA? By anything they've done, much less performing an action by ANY OTHER PERSON would be a sexual assault?

It's all well and dandy that aren't "happy" about it--but as long as you can "live with it", it shows support for it. No one with TSA or the governement cares if you're happy. It's high time people started understanding this: No one in any governmental agency, on any level CARES about you or your family. Human nature is for each person to act in their own self-interest. The government is not acting in yours.

danielonn

Possibly we should have a short 2 sentence reason printed on a business card stating why you don't want to use the Grope o Meter. I mean if you don't speak up for something that bothers you then you will be subjected to it.

Take the time to write to Congress, Director of Homeland Security, President Obama, your local congress etc.

Take action. Contact travel lawyers like Alexandar Anolik, Action Line in Newspapers and TV. Expose the TSA and do a peaceful walkout if needed.

Personally I don't mind going through the backscatter but if I am physically touched then I will file for assault.

What I don't get is if I touched someone inappropriately I can go to jail and have charges pressed on me but if a government TSA official gropes me its legal. If I am violated I will take the Badge # and call a lawyer and make a formal complaint. If I was Mr. Obama's son and I shoplifted I would be held to the same laws as anyone else. Just because Obama is my hypothetical father in this post does not mean I would be excused for doing the crime. Point in case don't use your badge as a way to get out of things. Now if you caught a passenger or a supposed passenger for illegal reasons then by all means use your badge and force. But if you are dealing with an innocent person then go by innocent until provel guilty not the other way around. Gee whiz!!!!

My point is if you feel your privacy has been violated please speak up. You pay triple figures to fly and you are subjected to this.

Oh and what gives the TSA the right to grope an innocent child? I think they need to be placed on the sex offenders list and their jobs taken away if a TSA agent touches anyone in their private parts. What would happen if I came with a wand and wanded the agent? I would be put in jail but not them. The TSA agents needs to adhear to the same laws as any human being. If they did something inappropriate such as stealing items from bags they need to be reprimanded and make amends.

Its not fair if we are caught shoplifting a $3 item we can be charged in civil court or be issued a Civil Demand for x dollars but if a TSA agent steals they may or may not be caught.

See where I'm going? If we abide by the rules then we need to be treated with respect just because your badge says TSA does not mean you should scream at me, harass me or make life difficult. I know they are doing their jobs for us to be safe and for that I am thankful for but there is a line where you can be professional and courteous or act like a b---- and be crabby.

I think the TSA needs to be shut down. Why are we taxpayers paying for this mistreatment? I have written congress, Mr. Obama, The Director of TSA to tell them how I feel. They treat people with disabilities with no respect. I am sure there are still some bad agents out there.

We as taxpayers needs to return America's airports back to pre-911 but still have the behind the scenes security etc.

If we cannot take liquids and TSA confiscates them we should be refunded. It can be hard for us to go back to the counter and check it in.

Bag fees should be waived for people with special needs. In fact if we have to pay bag fees the liquid ban needs to be removed.

How dare the TSA takes our liquids and we have to pay to check them in. Its not fair that frequent travelers don't have to pay the fees.

What about a family who only has enough money for the ticket and needs to check bags? Airlines should donate the fee to those with disabilities and other hardships. Greed Greed Greed is my response.

The airlines are a money mill. Not having meals on board is one thing I can pack my own but shame on the airlines for making me buy the expensive coffee and bottled water.

You want to know the secret the TSA I'm sure made an agreement that it would ban liquids even so many years out of the fact to get an incentive from big retailers at the airport. For any drink or meal purchased TSA gets a share. No wonder you can't bring water from home. Can you trust the water to fill up your bottle at some airports?

If I bring my own coffee to the plane one would save money but no TSA says go ahead and charge these passengers $3 for a large coffee. Airports needs to subsidize the cost to make the prices comparable to buying your coffee at a Starbucks in your neighborhood. Starbucks at the airport are scams because they don't offer 50 cent refills,other retailers are not consistent at airport locations. Franchises basically don't accept your benefits such as free syrups with a registered gift card.

I mean TSA is supporting charging us fees. Wait one minute the baggage handlers are on the clock so why charge us to check in 2 bags? I mean its like paying more to a secretary to run a report during her shift. The unions need to make the pay of the baggage handlers like other workers.

I also mind the $25 phone fee to speak to an agent because they too are on the clock. Its not my fault that these reps want to work for the airline and get the pay they are getting, its not fair that I did not get tipped busing tables at Starbucks I did not ask for $25 per table. Its not fair that I am out of work. See Greed again airlines charge for better seats using the phone etc. There must be some law saying that you cannot pass along a fee to consumers for a job paid for while on the clock. Would I charge a fee to a client for my coffee? No but if the contract says I can charge x amount for hotel etc then fine as I need a place to stay. Airline reps can go home but someone who travels to clients can't go home if they are far away. Technically you should not pass along the charge to the customer if you are on the clock. They would be doing the same job. Just figure out how to schedule your workers.

I don't like paying extra for a service that is not an extra special service like having a limo to the airport etc.

We need to speak up and show the greed we are experiencing.

Help us to abolish the TSA speak up tell them how us frequent fliers feel. Go to political events, write your airline etc.

BTW There must be a way to point the President of the USA and Director of Homeland Security to Flyertalk to read the forums here about how much we detest TSA what better people than frequent fliers to get the real side to this.

Wally Bird

As long as we are allowed to opt-out it is none of the TSA employees' business why and there is no need at all for a conversation about it.