n4zhg

And in my case it would be self-defense even if I weren't on the list.

Staying out of airports keeps me out of jail. It's guaranteed that if some blue shirt steps out of line, I would be in prison for decking said blue shirt. It wouldn't be no pansy purple nurple: There would be teeth on the floor.

InkUnderNails

I suspect I fall firmly in the "probably not" camp.

The airport is simply part of the conduit I use in which to get to work. The slowdown at the checkpoint is not much different than the delay that occurs because of construction on the freeway or a flat tire. It is part of the process. I leave early to minimize the problems of late arrival. I take different routes to avoid the delays. I purchase AAA coverage for auto problems.

I accept the difficulties as a part of what is necessary for doing business. It is not much different than the abuse is administered by the IRS, or OSHA or the EPA, or Canada immigration and LMO's, or any of the number of alphabet soup of organizations that force me into different levels of submission just to do the business I need to do to make a living. All of them lead to higher incurred costs that must be born by my customers.

DHS is not the only rogue agency. It is one of many. Each of them push the limits of constitutionality in different ways. They take liberties with court rulings and apply them on novel ways to dilute our personal liberties. I work with them and around them. I sometimes work against them.

I take great pains and time to learn the limits of the government agencies with which I must interact. I have to learn their rules and apply them in ways that I can benefit, if I even can find ways to benefit.

The only way that the TSA is different is that they are currently the only government agency that requires either a scan of my naked body or a law enforcement style pat down just as compliance for conforming to their regulations for using a service for which I have contracted.

I resist these in every way that I legally can and still have the opportunity to do business in my chosen field. I can often avoid both the naked body scan and the pat down. I can opt out of the scan and do. The scan would be easier for me, but I want the TSA to do the pat down as they look considerably more ridiculous doing the frisk than I do getting it.

I insist they follow their own rules and guidelines.

If I want to use my NEXUS, I will use it, as their guidelines say that I can.

I will insist on having visual contact with my belongings as their guidelines say that I can.

As I said before, I opt out if necessary.

If I want to take photographs, I will as their guidelines permit it.

It is the same way I approach my contact with every government agency. I learn what is required by law and I keep the law. I do not allow them to push me into areas in which the law does not allow them to proceed. It is hard work and it is difficult work. It requires occasional courage but mostly just tenacity and knowledge of their procedures and guidelines that may be better than what even they have.

If each of us were just to make them follow their own rules then we would present much of the necessary push back. We can only do this by interaction with them on our terms. Is it difficult? You bet. It requires a certain hard-headedness that may appear to be courage, but it really does not reach the level of courage. It is difficult nonetheless.

I also support those that have chosen not to fly. I creates financial incentives for powerful players to apply influence from a different direction. Pressure can also be applied from the political class. All are necessary for a complete approach.

CavePearl

+1

This is pretty much my attitude, too. The way I see it, wars are won by many lines of attack approaching the same enemy.

TheGolfWidow

I won't go into the scanners, I won't go into a private room, I won't expose private body parts, and I will absolutely never allow them to leave my belongings out of my sight (that one comes up constantly.) These are absolute deal-breakers for me. But I am also not supporting a family or building a career, and I respect that those who are -- and who might necessarily make different choices.

I think the thing that has been the most effective is raising the level of outrage by capturing the egregious checkpoint behavior and getting it to the media. As more people are groped (infants, infirm elderly adults, etc.) and as more people capture that and deliver it up where The Average Joe can see what's happening...eventually, the tipping point will be reached.

dok9874

The only problem I see with this is that we don't know exactly what THEIR rules are because they keep changing, or we're told that exact procedures are kept confidential to subvert all those mean terrorists trying to get on the airplanes.

I would like to be one of those on the front lines, but to be honest, if I can't even remember to take out my kippie bag out of my carryon, I'm not sure I could remember all the details of what to do when and what to say and how to say it, especially if I'm feeling threatened or anxious. I need a script!

I'm flying again this Friday, and I plan on printing out the TSA rules (as I can find them), then on the backside of that - print my boarding pass - just so I can have something to refer to if they try anything they're not supposed to do.

InkUnderNails

Do not forget this one.

DeafBlonde

I feel the same way that you do. I avoid air travel not only on principle to object to the TSA security theatre procedures, but as a precaution to keep me out of trouble. I would have to opt out of the Nude-o-Scanner on principle because I feel that nobody that works for the government should be allowed to see me naked without reasonable cause.

I, too, might draw blood if a TSO got out of line on the patdown and touched my breasts, buttox, or external sex organs (pubis, labia, vulva, clitoris, etc.). The fact that I am a sexual assult survivor adds to my self-defense instincts in such a way that I am unsure if I would be able to submit to the pat down without some type of autonomic self-defense action, which may or may not be violent in nature. IOW, I don't know how I would handle it, but I know it would not be pretty!

notagin

I wholeheartedly agree with Affection & the sentiment of which the original post represents. Everyone here on this thread has very good points and I share your frustration & anger. However, it isn’t just the TSA that has created/ perpetrated this problem. We must not forget the collaboration of our own Government Representatives, Fellow Citizens, The Greedy Airlines and Security Tech Companies. Since 9/11, Transportation Security has become an extremely lucrative industry.

Most FTs understand that they are no more “secure” flying today then they were pre-9/11. Oh yes, the “buzz” is certainly there but in reality No Way. Unfortunately, the PR appeals to the naïveté of those who are too lazy to use the gray matter and/ or are comfortable with “if the medicine tastes bad, it must be good” theory.

Like all Criminals, the Terrorist “job” is to always to stay a step ahead & find a way to trick the system. So is spending $billions on new equipment, changing security procedures to be as intrusive & offensive as possible (AND breaches our constitutional rights), over-inconveniencing the public, targeting random PAX (why does the TSA have a button trigger to alarm the Metal Detector anyway?) & theft of personal goods going have any “TRUE” impact on our safety? The answer is a huge “NO”. They’re policing us but who’s policing them?

The truth is we know who commits these crimes against humanity and until we all agree to stop this nonsense of politically correct non profiling & say "NP" to the political pay offs, our rights will continue to be slowly but surely taken away. Once they are gone... well, we see how hard it is to get them back.

Individual protest is great & absolutely historically embedded in the USA, but will this get us all where we need to be? In addition what we need is a PAX Lobby/ Group that can exert real pressure on Washington for those of us who REALLY want change. Is there one? Not that I have found. I checked out the Airline Traveler Association (amongst others), they actually have a note on their homepage stating “We Endorse Barack Obama as President”. Now, I don’t think a political endorsement of any candidate illustrates a true mission to protect citizen rights especially in the current political climate.

I will continue to be a fighter, sending out my letters, making my phone calls, questioning any/all acts of violation and supporting my fellow traveling victims. However, I would love to really unite with my brethren and collectively rise up against this tyranny. Too Dramatic? I think not.

bajajoes

While most of these remarks are righteous anger I believe what is needed are
for people to go ahead and try to fly within their personal boundaries and IF
they are violated say: STOP, "IF what you are doing is required to fly I will not fly"!
It is my belief you will not(no one has) be fined. Only when people demontrate by NOT allowing tsa to molest them to fly and leaving will they change.
Those folks that share their molesting stories by tsa are only showing them how much you will put up with to fly. There must be action in the form of stopping the tsa in mid-thigh and saying NO I will not fly, and then leaving! IF people are not willing to do that then all the horror stories of molestation are for naught.

G_Wolf

If everyone who felt as you did completely refused to fly, the only ones left flying would be those who don't object to the current situation. Then, the Men In Blue would have nothing but reinforcing interactions, thus further encouraging their behavior.

I choose not to modify my lifestyle (too drastically), and instead object to what I believe is wrong, doing so demonstratively and assertively.

Wollstonecraft

I had planned to stop flying, but then moved abroad and away from all of my extended family due to work reasons. Like many here, I love my family and want to see them as often as possible. I have taken the following steps:

1) Wrote to my Congresspeople
2) Wrote to all the major airlines
3) Take Amtrak or Megabus whenever possible out of a major city (for example, LA or NYC)
4) Pick a different route so that I originate my flight through an airport with WTMD only (this can add another 5-6 hours depending on the trip)
5) Begged all of my friends and family never EVER to walk through the backscatter, and told them what image is being produced when they walk through MMW. From what they tell me, most go for the pat-down now.
6) Decided I will not vote for Obama in the presidential election due to his insensitive remarks at the State of the Union speech (I will still vote, I just will not vote at all in the presidential election since I dislike all the candidates on both sides)
7) Try to SDOO whenever I can (I give myself time to observe the checkpoint for a while before I enter)
8) If SDOO fails, stay within sight of my belongings
9) I report on checkpoints to the sticky on this site and TSA status
10) I carry a hidden camera everywhere I go (not just to airport checkpoints) and record images within the limits of the law when I feel it is necessary. So far, I have not seen anything worth posting, but I want to be prepared when I see something bad happening.

It is not much, but it's not nothing, either. There are multiple fronts to this fight, and I really admire the people who are putting themselves out there to benefit the rest of us.

bdschobel

I feel exactly the same way.

Bruce

JoeBas

If everyone who felt as I do completely refused to fly, the Airlines would be screaming in agony... ... ...

LuvAirFrance

Just finished 4000 miles on the bus. My "cred" is strong. Only regret: Didn't drive my car. Western trips on the bus are pretty sad compared to all my past bus experiences.

G_Wolf

No, they would end up like Chrysler and GM, getting bailed out.