LuvAirFrance

A lot of politicians seem to be running against their own bailout vote. So I wouldnt be so sure. Look at all the brands that are already gone. Flown NWA lately?

Global_Hi_Flyer

I'd put it more in the category of "Atlas Shrugged".

Saitek

This is the number one problem facing the American people. This slogan, the majority believe is 100% accurate.

'I am from the government, I am here to help you'

Always Flyin

Agree. That is an absolute. I simply do not.

That one is harder. If I don't go through the scanner, I have to allow my junk to be touched or I don't fly. 90% of my flights are transcontinental for work so I have no other real alternatives.

Absolutely. They can play their games in public or I won't play. If I have to leave the screening area because of it, fine. I can miss a flight.

I'd love for them to try and fine me. Hard for TSA to argue I consented to the search when I don't know what the limits of the search are.

Rather meaningless to me as I travel alone. How can I audio or video record what they are doing to me when my metallic items are in a tray on the belt? Now if someone else was yelling for someone to record what TSA was doing at a certain point in time, I would.

What else won't I do? Long list, but one I haven't seen here is that I will not go into their little glass booth to wait for screening. That is a physical detention and, since I am not under arrest, I am not going to consent to such a detention. You want to screen me? Fine--go ahead. But I am not going into an enclosed space where my freedom to move is affected while I wait for them.

LuvAirFrance

Shame on Freud and Einsten for leaving Germany. What copouts these geniuses are.

maniac78

I'm not from the US so if I protest or stand up to the TSA I would get kicked out probably so I just go along. I do self opt out of nude-o-scopes thanks to the work done in the where are the terrorist support machines located thread. I do purposely wear stinky shoes and try and save up farts for the checkpoint and hold up the line by waiting until I can go through the metal detector before putting my stuff through the x-ray.

LuvAirFrance

Amazing, you can save up farts. Is that some kind of yoga discipline?

Pesky Monkey

Yep, we need to profile all those white Christian Norwegian right-wing radicals. There's no accurate profile for a 1 in a billion person. There never will be.

CloudCruiser

Boycott flying? More power to you if you can honestly do that. If I don't fly, I don't work. But honestly, I don't care if they probe, scan, grope, whatever! I want to arrive were I need to be. (alive, that is!) I fly twice a month and since January have only been in a scanner twice. Nude pictures of me? Puleeeze... you would have to have a pretty sick sense of fetish to enjoy any picture coming from one of these machines. Don't care.
Do I think you should change your minds? No, of course not. I believe everyone has the right to go down the road (or runway...) of their choice. I have two sons working hard to make sure we keep our freedoms.
As a matter of fact, 90% of the flights I am on are packed to the rafters so I should be hoping that more people would boycott flying. ^
Someone groping me? No, they are not. Look up the definition of grope and see if that is what they really are doing.

The only thing I will disagree with as far as what this thread stands for - I DON'T HAVE "JUNK"! That has got to be the most dumb ... word anyone could think of for my personal belongings...

Well, that's all the time I have. Thanks for letting me vent.
Y'all be careful out there, whatever mode of travel you prefer...

LuvAirFrance

The issue is peripherally about physical touch. It is more centrally about the government arbitrarily deciding it can be offensive to you and pay no attention to your feelings. That and the fact it is theater. This is how an abusive relationship gets started, when one class asserts its "right" to treat another as it wishes. You can say the military is fighting to preserve our freedoms, but what is really happening is that here at home, power is stratifying society with different levels of freedom.

lmirante

Do you care if they "probe, scan, grope, whatever" my 13-year old, physically mature daughter? I understand and respect your need to fly. I understand and respect that you are not concerned about this particular government behavior. But just because it doesn't bother you, doesn't mean it's Constitutional, doesn't mean it's effective and doesn't mean it's appropriate.

At what point would you say enough is enough? If you have such a tipping point, you should be able to acknowledge that for many that point has been reached and passed. People with young children who simply can't take the chance of someone feeling ANY PART of their child for no good reason, people with medical conditions forcing them to be humiliatingly groped, people with sexual assault traumas in their past. Be thankful if none of these worries apply to you but please try to empathize with those who are greatly impacted.

I agree strongly with this. I don't fly because I have kids and can't risk their safety. If it were just me, I'd fly in a minute and put up a big stink. Not because I care if anyone sees me naked - I don't. Modesty is not an issue with me. But there's a big difference between not being embarrassed because someone accidentally saw my naughty parts due to a wardrobe malfunction or something similar and the government purposefully requiring that I be bombarded with x-rays and viewed naked to exercise my right to fly. The fact that it is ineffective is just the final slap in the face.

The groping is right out. Modest I am not but the thought of those people touching me makes me physically ill.

bdschobel

That's a good point worth repeating. Over the years (even before the latest groping began), I have offered to undress for these thugs, but they tell me I'll get arrested for indecent exposure, even in a private room. They insist on touching me, which I hate. Similarly, they often rub bare skin. What's the point of that? Surely it isn't part of the "global war on terror." It's more like the government's war on passengers.

Bruce

CloudCruiser

As I said, I am not intending to change anyone's mind. I am stating my opinion on the topics of this thread. Maybe the security methods aren't the best, but what is your alternative? What method do you suggest that would make people feel comfortable that the person sitting next to them isn't hiding some type of weapon in their shoe, or underwear, or wherever?
If you had a family member on one of the planes that went down in 2001 which started all this, would you disagree with the current security methods? I admit, the pat downs on children are hard to stomach, but for those sick minded people that think they are going to be a hero by taking down innocent people in a plane, they are watching and waiting to figure out which "innocent" looking people are allowed through without being checked. That will become the next method they try.
I would love to go back to a horse and buggy society. The world would be much quieter...
Let's be careful out there,
CloudCruiser

Bungnoid

Security methods should be designed based on rational thinking and careful cost-benefit analysis, not emotion. What is the point of your question? Is the opinion of someone who lost a family member on 9/11 more valid somehow than that of a member of the general population?

Your implication seems to be that someone who lost a family member would be inclined to agree with the current security regime. Let's assume for argument's sake that this is correct: so what? This is an emotional reaction. Public policy should not be decided this way. For one thing, there is the big question as to whether the current security methods provide a real benefit commensurate with their cost (in dollars and in human degradation) or even any benefit at all. Even if the new procedures provide some marginal improvement in security (and I think that this is a generous assumption), why should millions of travelers be degraded because three thousand people were killed ten years ago?

While some people like you don't seem to mind the new security procedures very much, many of us find them absolutely degrading and contrary to long-standing social mores.

And sorry, I don't buy into this bizarre idea that the modern world is somehow more dangerous than the "horse and buggy" era. This stems from a very solipsistic worldview. Life has always been fraught with danger, no more so now than in times past. In fact, I think that modern life is less dangerous than in the past, not more. I'll take my chances, thank you very much.

Cathay Boy

This is exactly police don't investigate their own family's crimes, doctors don't perform on their own family's surgeries. They are too emotionally invested to think rationally and critically.

The idea that what TSA has offered today make flying "safer" is a myth that unfortunately too many Americans bought into. Israel is their #1 target for decades and yet their airports, their planes, have one of the best security record, why? Because they actually let reason and common sense be part of their fight against terrorism, not dumb rules that doesn't really do anything but merely assumes everyone, from baby to 100-year old granny is equally potentially terrorist material.

This mentality, either out of fear of being call any kind of -ism or -phobic will not provide any meaningful security, because it simply is overwhelming to assume every single flyer is a terrorist and to have measures to prove their innocence. In fact, in this kind of situation its preciously the easiest for terrorists to strike as they know the government isn't looking at the real dangers but too busy acting like they aren't any -ists or -phobics and rather waste time on little babies, kids, old folks, etc..