Whole Body Scanners Opt Out Stories [merged]
Jul 24, 2011, 4:52 pm
#1576
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: Lifetime (for now) Gold MM, HH Gold, Giving Tootsie Pops to UA employees, & a retired hockey goalie
Posts: 28,878
Nonsense at its very best 
but just one data point....
Put all things like wallets, watches, cell phones & I/D's in an inside pocket of your jacket and fold the jacket over the pocket so the inside pocket is "buried" in the fold or place those items inside a zippered compartment of your carry-on as anything left out in the open is a theft (by a dishonest TSO or unscrupulous pax) waiting to happen.
but just one data point....Put all things like wallets, watches, cell phones & I/D's in an inside pocket of your jacket and fold the jacket over the pocket so the inside pocket is "buried" in the fold or place those items inside a zippered compartment of your carry-on as anything left out in the open is a theft (by a dishonest TSO or unscrupulous pax) waiting to happen.
Jul 24, 2011, 4:54 pm
#1577
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Newport Beach, California, USA
Posts: 36,062
Nonsense at its very best but just one data point....
Put all things like wallets, watches, cell phones & I/D's in an inside pocket of your jacket and fold the jacket over the pocket so the inside pocket is "buried" in the fold or place those items inside a zippered compartment of your carry-on as anything left out in the open is a theft (by a dishonest TSO or unscrupulous pax) waiting to happen.
but just one data point....Put all things like wallets, watches, cell phones & I/D's in an inside pocket of your jacket and fold the jacket over the pocket so the inside pocket is "buried" in the fold or place those items inside a zippered compartment of your carry-on as anything left out in the open is a theft (by a dishonest TSO or unscrupulous pax) waiting to happen.
Jul 24, 2011, 5:04 pm
#1578
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
Jul 25, 2011, 7:35 am
#1580
Join Date: Dec 2006
Programs: Delta Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 349
My latest strategy the past few times is to go on and on about the cancer risk during the frisk. I like to call it a 'radiation machine' loudly enough for the other passengers to hear when I opt out and then during the frisk I talk the whole time about how dangerous it is for the TSA people to be standing by the machines all day and how sad it will be when they start getting cancer from the effects. I do this in a very sympathetic voice and it seems to make them very uncomfortable. I make sure to point out that I'm a frequent traveler and that going through the machines that often would be 'very scary' and that I'm 'very scared for them'. They do not like this one bit and the frisks seem shorter for it.
Jul 25, 2011, 4:57 pm
#1581
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 240
My latest strategy the past few times is to go on and on about the cancer risk during the frisk. I like to call it a 'radiation machine' loudly enough for the other passengers to hear when I opt out and then during the frisk I talk the whole time about how dangerous it is for the TSA people to be standing by the machines all day and how sad it will be when they start getting cancer from the effects. I do this in a very sympathetic voice and it seems to make them very uncomfortable. I make sure to point out that I'm a frequent traveler and that going through the machines that often would be 'very scary' and that I'm 'very scared for them'. They do not like this one bit and the frisks seem shorter for it.
I just talked to a friend who went through LAX last week, flying domestically. Looks like they are sending more and more people through the body scanners now. Sometimes, it's almost everyone except for a few when the scanner lines are backed up.
Jul 25, 2011, 9:59 pm
#1582
Join Date: Dec 2006
Programs: Delta Diamond, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 349
In general, I think that *anything* I can do to make the TSA groper more uncomfortable about the situation is a good thing. Some things I've done:
Standing in front of the WTMD, told to go through the backscatter instead: "Oh, no. Nobody should go through those radiation machines. They are SO dangerous. You shouldn't even be standing next to them all day." (Loudly enough for others to hear but not ever with an aggressive tone.)
Act like I'm a primadonna when they're gathering my stuff off the belt. Point and things and tell them how I'd like them carried. Pretend they're my servants carrying my things for me. Snap fingers and point if I don't like how they're carrying something.
When asked if I'm sensitive to being touched anywhere, the answer is always "Yes." When they ask where, the answer is "I am sensitive all over my entire body to being touched by a stranger." This one really throws them off kilter. It's good to look them in the eye when saying it. Again, NOT aggressively.
Never let them explain what they're doing in the patdown. Say that it makes it worse and they should just get it over with. If they say they have to, say I release them from it. Be firm. Say, "It's mentally distressing if you tell me."
Always make them change their gloves. Tell them in detail why its important that they do so, from germs they might be spreading to the fact that if they've touched something else prior that will trigger the machine that I will be subjected unnecessarily to a secondary.
Go on and on about cancer risks from radiation, both for me and them.
Make comments about what they're doing. "You're patting down my bare arm? You can see there is nothing hidden on my bare arm.... My hair, really? That's weird."
In fact, talk constantly, despite refusing to let them talk.
Take a really, really long time to get my stuff together when its done, like I have all the time in the world. In fact, I find the earlier I get to the airport and the less rushed I am, the more I feel relaxed enough to be difficult, so I try to get there early when the airport has the radiation porn machines and I know I may have to opt out. People are more willing to go along with things when they're hurried. Don't be hurried if at all possible.
Standing in front of the WTMD, told to go through the backscatter instead: "Oh, no. Nobody should go through those radiation machines. They are SO dangerous. You shouldn't even be standing next to them all day." (Loudly enough for others to hear but not ever with an aggressive tone.)
Act like I'm a primadonna when they're gathering my stuff off the belt. Point and things and tell them how I'd like them carried. Pretend they're my servants carrying my things for me. Snap fingers and point if I don't like how they're carrying something.
When asked if I'm sensitive to being touched anywhere, the answer is always "Yes." When they ask where, the answer is "I am sensitive all over my entire body to being touched by a stranger." This one really throws them off kilter. It's good to look them in the eye when saying it. Again, NOT aggressively.
Never let them explain what they're doing in the patdown. Say that it makes it worse and they should just get it over with. If they say they have to, say I release them from it. Be firm. Say, "It's mentally distressing if you tell me."
Always make them change their gloves. Tell them in detail why its important that they do so, from germs they might be spreading to the fact that if they've touched something else prior that will trigger the machine that I will be subjected unnecessarily to a secondary.
Go on and on about cancer risks from radiation, both for me and them.
Make comments about what they're doing. "You're patting down my bare arm? You can see there is nothing hidden on my bare arm.... My hair, really? That's weird."
In fact, talk constantly, despite refusing to let them talk.
Take a really, really long time to get my stuff together when its done, like I have all the time in the world. In fact, I find the earlier I get to the airport and the less rushed I am, the more I feel relaxed enough to be difficult, so I try to get there early when the airport has the radiation porn machines and I know I may have to opt out. People are more willing to go along with things when they're hurried. Don't be hurried if at all possible.
Jul 26, 2011, 4:51 am
#1583
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,165
In general, I think that *anything* I can do to make the TSA groper more uncomfortable about the situation is a good thing. Some things I've done:
Standing in front of the WTMD, told to go through the backscatter instead: "Oh, no. Nobody should go through those radiation machines. They are SO dangerous. You shouldn't even be standing next to them all day." (Loudly enough for others to hear but not ever with an aggressive tone.)
Act like I'm a primadonna when they're gathering my stuff off the belt. Point and things and tell them how I'd like them carried. Pretend they're my servants carrying my things for me. Snap fingers and point if I don't like how they're carrying something.
When asked if I'm sensitive to being touched anywhere, the answer is always "Yes." When they ask where, the answer is "I am sensitive all over my entire body to being touched by a stranger." This one really throws them off kilter. It's good to look them in the eye when saying it. Again, NOT aggressively.
Never let them explain what they're doing in the patdown. Say that it makes it worse and they should just get it over with. If they say they have to, say I release them from it. Be firm. Say, "It's mentally distressing if you tell me."
Always make them change their gloves. Tell them in detail why its important that they do so, from germs they might be spreading to the fact that if they've touched something else prior that will trigger the machine that I will be subjected unnecessarily to a secondary.
Go on and on about cancer risks from radiation, both for me and them.
Make comments about what they're doing. "You're patting down my bare arm? You can see there is nothing hidden on my bare arm.... My hair, really? That's weird."
In fact, talk constantly, despite refusing to let them talk.
Take a really, really long time to get my stuff together when its done, like I have all the time in the world. In fact, I find the earlier I get to the airport and the less rushed I am, the more I feel relaxed enough to be difficult, so I try to get there early when the airport has the radiation porn machines and I know I may have to opt out. People are more willing to go along with things when they're hurried. Don't be hurried if at all possible.
Standing in front of the WTMD, told to go through the backscatter instead: "Oh, no. Nobody should go through those radiation machines. They are SO dangerous. You shouldn't even be standing next to them all day." (Loudly enough for others to hear but not ever with an aggressive tone.)
Act like I'm a primadonna when they're gathering my stuff off the belt. Point and things and tell them how I'd like them carried. Pretend they're my servants carrying my things for me. Snap fingers and point if I don't like how they're carrying something.
When asked if I'm sensitive to being touched anywhere, the answer is always "Yes." When they ask where, the answer is "I am sensitive all over my entire body to being touched by a stranger." This one really throws them off kilter. It's good to look them in the eye when saying it. Again, NOT aggressively.
Never let them explain what they're doing in the patdown. Say that it makes it worse and they should just get it over with. If they say they have to, say I release them from it. Be firm. Say, "It's mentally distressing if you tell me."
Always make them change their gloves. Tell them in detail why its important that they do so, from germs they might be spreading to the fact that if they've touched something else prior that will trigger the machine that I will be subjected unnecessarily to a secondary.
Go on and on about cancer risks from radiation, both for me and them.
Make comments about what they're doing. "You're patting down my bare arm? You can see there is nothing hidden on my bare arm.... My hair, really? That's weird."
In fact, talk constantly, despite refusing to let them talk.
Take a really, really long time to get my stuff together when its done, like I have all the time in the world. In fact, I find the earlier I get to the airport and the less rushed I am, the more I feel relaxed enough to be difficult, so I try to get there early when the airport has the radiation porn machines and I know I may have to opt out. People are more willing to go along with things when they're hurried. Don't be hurried if at all possible.
A close second is: "Do you like doing this to young boys?"
Jul 26, 2011, 6:51 am
#1584
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Winter Garden, FL
Programs: Delta DM-3MM United Gold-MM Marriott Lifetime Titanium Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 13,498
On April 18, I asked lead screener Paul V. at FLL (Terminal 1) if his family knows what he does all day. Paul blew a gasket, refused to continue the pat-down and called for all kinds of reinforcements. He said that I was threatening his family and all sorts of nonsense that never happened. That I had "crossed a line." It was pretty amazing, actually. (I guess his family doesn't know!)
Bruce
Bruce
Jul 26, 2011, 7:11 am
#1585
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: IAH mostly.
Programs: I still call it Onepass every now and then. Platinum.
Posts: 500
On April 18, I asked lead screener Paul V. at FLL (Terminal 1) if his family knows what he does all day. Paul blew a gasket, refused to continue the pat-down and called for all kinds of reinforcements. He said that I was threatening his family and all sorts of nonsense that never happened. That I had "crossed a line." It was pretty amazing, actually. (I guess his family doesn't know!)
Bruce
Bruce
A couple of other good ones I've used:
"A private room? SURE! But only if it's the room where you look at the nasty pictures!"
"You know, I could still go through the machine if you would rather see it than touch it. I'll let you pick."
Jul 26, 2011, 11:21 am
#1586
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: PHL , EWR
Programs: AA Platinum, UA Gold, Hyatt Diamond, Avis First
Posts: 293
When asked if I'm sensitive to being touched anywhere, the answer is always "Yes." When they ask where, the answer is "I am sensitive all over my entire body to being touched by a stranger." This one really throws them off kilter. It's good to look them in the eye when saying it. Again, NOT aggressively.
Jul 27, 2011, 6:42 am
#1587
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Western PA
Programs: ExPlAAt; United 1K
Posts: 480
I could not avoid selection for the WBI at IAD this morning. I opted out and tried a variation of VelvetKennedy's suggestion: I told him I did not need the "talk" because I did not want to waste time standing next to the dangerous radiation machines. FWIW, he spent a lot of time on my collar and stupid things like patting down my boarding pass. I saw him pull fresh gloves out of the box, but he did not know this, so I asked him to get a fresh pair. He complied without complaint. No problem keeping my stuff in view.
Jul 28, 2011, 5:36 am
#1588
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,061
ORD H/K this morning
Well, after spending a night in T3 due to a chronically delayed flight, I was in no mood for TSA games this morning. I got in the Priority AAccess lane, and there was nobody besides the TDC. The TDC didn't say anything until I approached her and started yelling at me for being in the crew lane. The signs clearly pointed to crew and Priority AAccess. After I informed her of this, she said the priority lane was closed. It was at this point I realized why. The PA/crew line was pointing to the WTMD only.
I came back about 15 minutes later and they had reconfigured separate crew and PA lane. Of course, they were sending 100% of the people through the NoS and I knew today would be an opt-out day. Ms. Yelling TDC was still there, and I think she remembered me. I offered the olive branch of a half smile with my passport card, and she did her black light + highlighter squiggle and shoved both items back to me without a word or hint of joy in her facial expression.
I got in line and observed the moat dragons directing 100% of the Priority AAccess traffic to the 'scope while the general boarding folks were backed up due to a lack of a TDC. The people were lining up like sheep and accepting their fate of the blue cancer walls. I got to the moat dragon - as I always do - and wait for my items to disappear into the x-ray tunnel before announcing "I opt out." Immediately, the guy behind me said, "Hrm... I don't think I want to go through that thing either." Score a +1 on the opt-out counter!
^
I waited no more than 15 seconds for my male assist who was already wearing gloves. I asked for a glove change which he did without hesitation. He asked if I was familiar with the procedure, and I replied in the affirmative. He skipped the whole talk of the procedure and proceeded to do the full patdown. I got the hair (new to me), collar (doesn't happen most of the time), waistband (always), and testicle chop (three times each side FTW!). No words were exchanged except 'ok. You're good to go.' after the ETD came back green.
I did notice that because of me, the guy behind me, and a woman waiting for a resolution patdown, that they had temporarily suspended NoS operations for the duration I was facing my stuff on the conveyor belt (and thus looking at the NoS the whole time.) I saved at least a handful of people from unnecessary radiation exposure, but you know it's going to be one of those super stellar days when this is happening at 4:30am.
I came back about 15 minutes later and they had reconfigured separate crew and PA lane. Of course, they were sending 100% of the people through the NoS and I knew today would be an opt-out day. Ms. Yelling TDC was still there, and I think she remembered me. I offered the olive branch of a half smile with my passport card, and she did her black light + highlighter squiggle and shoved both items back to me without a word or hint of joy in her facial expression.
I got in line and observed the moat dragons directing 100% of the Priority AAccess traffic to the 'scope while the general boarding folks were backed up due to a lack of a TDC. The people were lining up like sheep and accepting their fate of the blue cancer walls. I got to the moat dragon - as I always do - and wait for my items to disappear into the x-ray tunnel before announcing "I opt out." Immediately, the guy behind me said, "Hrm... I don't think I want to go through that thing either." Score a +1 on the opt-out counter!
^I waited no more than 15 seconds for my male assist who was already wearing gloves. I asked for a glove change which he did without hesitation. He asked if I was familiar with the procedure, and I replied in the affirmative. He skipped the whole talk of the procedure and proceeded to do the full patdown. I got the hair (new to me), collar (doesn't happen most of the time), waistband (always), and testicle chop (three times each side FTW!). No words were exchanged except 'ok. You're good to go.' after the ETD came back green.
I did notice that because of me, the guy behind me, and a woman waiting for a resolution patdown, that they had temporarily suspended NoS operations for the duration I was facing my stuff on the conveyor belt (and thus looking at the NoS the whole time.) I saved at least a handful of people from unnecessary radiation exposure, but you know it's going to be one of those super stellar days when this is happening at 4:30am.
Jul 30, 2011, 9:48 am
#1589
Join Date: May 2010
Location: FLL - Nice and Warm
Programs: TSA Disparager Gold
Posts: 1,025
MIA -7/27 - 8AM Checkpoint H - Air France - Unable to SDOO. Announced "I Opt Out"
Quite good - no yelling - waited about 1 minute, instigated several more opt-outs behind me while waiting. Kept stuff in sight. Brought to back of checkpoint, and patdown half-a$$ed. Checked waistband, maybe 1" inside, no check of collar (T-shirt). Came nowhere near my junk. Didn't pat down my bald head or bare arms. Looked in my wallet, which I kept in my pocket, but didn't remove anything or read anything. Checked his gloves and I was good to go. Excellent under the circumstances. (Even spoke English! In Miami!)
Returning from Haiti, however, everyone was patted down twice. Once after the WTMD, again at the gate. They were even patting down the Nuns (several). Although this was a really worthless patdown compared to the US, they actually "patted" instead of "rub-down". I guess Haiti is just a hotbed for terrorists. Baggage only checked 20-25% by hand - No CTX machines or such - I watched for a while and determined that they were loading 75% unscreened onto the flight.
Note: PAP is the most out-of-control airport ever observed in 40 years of flying. It was pitiful before the earthquake, it's much worse now. Plus no A/C in the airport makes it that much more enjoyable! Smelled pretty bad on that flight!
Global entry is da bomb - I was in my car and gone before 25% of the passengers got through immigration!
Quite good - no yelling - waited about 1 minute, instigated several more opt-outs behind me while waiting. Kept stuff in sight. Brought to back of checkpoint, and patdown half-a$$ed. Checked waistband, maybe 1" inside, no check of collar (T-shirt). Came nowhere near my junk. Didn't pat down my bald head or bare arms. Looked in my wallet, which I kept in my pocket, but didn't remove anything or read anything. Checked his gloves and I was good to go. Excellent under the circumstances. (Even spoke English! In Miami!)
Returning from Haiti, however, everyone was patted down twice. Once after the WTMD, again at the gate. They were even patting down the Nuns (several). Although this was a really worthless patdown compared to the US, they actually "patted" instead of "rub-down". I guess Haiti is just a hotbed for terrorists. Baggage only checked 20-25% by hand - No CTX machines or such - I watched for a while and determined that they were loading 75% unscreened onto the flight.
Note: PAP is the most out-of-control airport ever observed in 40 years of flying. It was pitiful before the earthquake, it's much worse now. Plus no A/C in the airport makes it that much more enjoyable! Smelled pretty bad on that flight!
Global entry is da bomb - I was in my car and gone before 25% of the passengers got through immigration!
Jul 31, 2011, 6:18 pm
#1590
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NYC
Programs: AA Hilton UA Hyatt
Posts: 108
Can I re-scan?
FLL July 31, 2011.
I go through the full body scan, and I walk out after the scan. The guy with the earpiece says "You need a pat down because it took a blurry image of you because it looks like you flinched during it." I replied "Can I just walk right back through and get re-scanned? I'd rather do that than have some guy's hands all over me." He says "I'm sure, just ask the supervisor who is coming over right now."
I ask the supervisor "Hey, can I just walk back through and you guys can get a clear picture rather than a pat down." She says "The procedures in our manual say that you have to have a pat down." I said to her, "Can you show me where that's stated in your procedures, so I can see it?" and she says "No."
So I take a seat off to the side as instructed by her, and the man in the blue gloves comes over, and I'm sitting on the chair, and then I stand up and let the guy do his thing.
After it's over, I look at the supervisor and say in a serious tone, "Can I have your full name and your badge number, so that if I do go home and look this up, if you're incorrect, I can file a formal complaint about how you handled this?" She then tells me her name and says, "Can I have your boarding pass?" I say "Yes, no problem."
She disappears for 5 to 10 minutes in their little room up the ramp and leaves me standing there with my stuff. Her supervisor eventually comes out, and asks me if I'm alright, and I tell her, "Yeah, I'm fine, here's what happened, and here's what I said" and I explain what happened. She's clearly taking my temperature about boarding a plane, which implies that this first woman raised a stink when she went into the room, and likely referred to me as an unhappy or disorderly passenger (I think dissatisfied and inquisitive would have been more apt). I recount the story, state it in the exact same tone I asked my questions, and she lets me go without any sort of problem.
Here's my question:
1) Was the first lady right? If there's a blurry image, do I not have the ability to go back into the scanner? Must I then 100% of the time have a full body pat down? Is this stated anywhere explicitly?
2) Am I wrong to ask these questions? Because I sure felt as if the TSA supervisor was very offended and passively aggressive toward me for asking very basic, serious, but informed questions of her and her job. This has never happened to me before in the 100+ flights I have taken since these things have been installed. Given the abnormality, I wanted to know if this was right.
I think if someone did to me on a subway, what she said was "required" of me to board the plane, there would be some jail time involved. So, I don't think it's out of line to inquire about exactly where it's stated I have no choice but to do this, if I intend to fly. In addition, I don't think it's wrong to ask for her information if in fact through more thorough research, I find she's wrong or right.
I followed every single instruction they asked of me. However, I asked very pointed and direct questions of her, and in doing so, she felt the need to show who was boss without basically answering a single question of mine.
Does anyone know where I can find proof that the correct/incorrect procedure was followed here?
I go through the full body scan, and I walk out after the scan. The guy with the earpiece says "You need a pat down because it took a blurry image of you because it looks like you flinched during it." I replied "Can I just walk right back through and get re-scanned? I'd rather do that than have some guy's hands all over me." He says "I'm sure, just ask the supervisor who is coming over right now."
I ask the supervisor "Hey, can I just walk back through and you guys can get a clear picture rather than a pat down." She says "The procedures in our manual say that you have to have a pat down." I said to her, "Can you show me where that's stated in your procedures, so I can see it?" and she says "No."
So I take a seat off to the side as instructed by her, and the man in the blue gloves comes over, and I'm sitting on the chair, and then I stand up and let the guy do his thing.
After it's over, I look at the supervisor and say in a serious tone, "Can I have your full name and your badge number, so that if I do go home and look this up, if you're incorrect, I can file a formal complaint about how you handled this?" She then tells me her name and says, "Can I have your boarding pass?" I say "Yes, no problem."
She disappears for 5 to 10 minutes in their little room up the ramp and leaves me standing there with my stuff. Her supervisor eventually comes out, and asks me if I'm alright, and I tell her, "Yeah, I'm fine, here's what happened, and here's what I said" and I explain what happened. She's clearly taking my temperature about boarding a plane, which implies that this first woman raised a stink when she went into the room, and likely referred to me as an unhappy or disorderly passenger (I think dissatisfied and inquisitive would have been more apt). I recount the story, state it in the exact same tone I asked my questions, and she lets me go without any sort of problem.
Here's my question:
1) Was the first lady right? If there's a blurry image, do I not have the ability to go back into the scanner? Must I then 100% of the time have a full body pat down? Is this stated anywhere explicitly?
2) Am I wrong to ask these questions? Because I sure felt as if the TSA supervisor was very offended and passively aggressive toward me for asking very basic, serious, but informed questions of her and her job. This has never happened to me before in the 100+ flights I have taken since these things have been installed. Given the abnormality, I wanted to know if this was right.
I think if someone did to me on a subway, what she said was "required" of me to board the plane, there would be some jail time involved. So, I don't think it's out of line to inquire about exactly where it's stated I have no choice but to do this, if I intend to fly. In addition, I don't think it's wrong to ask for her information if in fact through more thorough research, I find she's wrong or right.
I followed every single instruction they asked of me. However, I asked very pointed and direct questions of her, and in doing so, she felt the need to show who was boss without basically answering a single question of mine.
Does anyone know where I can find proof that the correct/incorrect procedure was followed here?