New TSA security measures in the aftermath of the NW AMS/DTW flight
Dec 26, 2009, 12:40 pm
#76
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: AA (PPro/3MM/Admirals Club), AS, UA, Marriott (Gold), HHonors (Gold), Accor (Plat)
Posts: 2,602
Maybe, except here on the west coast, there is no Amtrak between the Bay Area and Los Angeles that doesn't involve a few hours on a thruway (i.e., bus). It takes forever to take the "train" out here, and I'd probably switch to driving, as much as I detest driving I-5.
Dec 26, 2009, 12:41 pm
#77
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: AA (PPro/3MM/Admirals Club), AS, UA, Marriott (Gold), HHonors (Gold), Accor (Plat)
Posts: 2,602
Dec 26, 2009, 12:45 pm
#78
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Detroit; Formerly Dubai
Posts: 3,652
None of these measures really change everything. People seem to demand some response (no matter how lame) and some one's head (no matter how innocent).
Dec 26, 2009, 12:47 pm
#79
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: AA Gold AAdvantage Elite, Rapids Reward
Posts: 38,332
No, I don't believe it AMS didn't do it very well on their job at all. It must to be very poorly average security levels. It must to have more common sense the security need to be more improvable the security measures. BDO didn't being caught him at the secondary screening at the gate. It wasn't nobody is their own fault at all. It could be big gravely mistaken for what security in AMS did not appropriate to catch the terrorist to keep off the aircraft.
Dec 26, 2009, 12:47 pm
#80
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Bainbridge Island, WA
Posts: 8,965
I took this from AP:
The airline advised U.S.-bound passengers to restrict their carryon item to "the absolute minimum" or to not carry any bag on board at all.
"Carriage of any carryon item will result in lengthy security delays for the customer," the airline said.
I thought the same thing... they make us pay for checking baggage...now they are trying to take the free carry-on away.
Dec 26, 2009, 12:51 pm
#81
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 247
So for the last hour of an international flight, the passengers and kids will have to stay seated and not be allowed to use the rest rooms! That should be interesting. I wonder how that will work out?
Let's punish the masses for the action of one whackjob from Nigeria!
Let's punish the masses for the action of one whackjob from Nigeria!
Dec 26, 2009, 12:52 pm
#82
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Detroit; Formerly Dubai
Posts: 3,652
The problem with these rules is that electronics are the most pilferable items and also the ones that create the most problems for airline security. I could carry a great deal less electronics if the airlines could come up with a way to reduce the theft rate from checked luggage.
Dec 26, 2009, 12:53 pm
#83
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: USA
Programs: Hilton Diamond, Priority Club Plat
Posts: 374
He shall now be dubbed the "Underwear Bomber"
From ABC News:
"The device intended to blow up the Northwest flight was made at the location in Yemen, according to Abdulmutallab, and consisted of a six-inch packet of powder and a syringe with a liquid. Both were sewn into the student's underwear so they would be near his testicles and unlikely to be detected, he told agents."
So after the "Shoe Bomber" we now have to take off shoes... how long until we have to take off underwear and be strip searched by the TSA goons?
From ABC News:
"The device intended to blow up the Northwest flight was made at the location in Yemen, according to Abdulmutallab, and consisted of a six-inch packet of powder and a syringe with a liquid. Both were sewn into the student's underwear so they would be near his testicles and unlikely to be detected, he told agents."
So after the "Shoe Bomber" we now have to take off shoes... how long until we have to take off underwear and be strip searched by the TSA goons?
Dec 26, 2009, 12:54 pm
#84
Join Date: Oct 2006
Programs: AS, FB, MB, MR, HH
Posts: 347
There is still no official word from DHS on these supposed specific 'new measures', no press release, nothing.
Where is all the info the airlines getting coming from?
The Houston Chronicle has said
What in the hell is going on? Reading the article it seems like the DHS has asked foreign bodies to add an extra layer of security but didn't define what that extra layer should be, allowing the foreign bodies, notably Transport Canada to make up the rules!?
Sounds the administration is trying a bit of PR handling on this one, which seems to be slowly turning into a PR disaster.
Where is all the info the airlines getting coming from?
The Houston Chronicle has said
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...l/6787704.html
The TSA declined to confirm the new restrictions.
The TSA declined to confirm the new restrictions.
Sounds the administration is trying a bit of PR handling on this one, which seems to be slowly turning into a PR disaster.
Dec 26, 2009, 1:00 pm
#85
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: ANC
Programs: AS MVP
Posts: 148
I was on a plane when the liquid-shoe bombing incident took place. We were initially told that we were all going to miss our connecting flights b/c we would all be searched when the plane landed. They abandoned that plan before we even landed and they let us into the terminal. Nobody told us what was going on. As I usually do after a red-eye, I bought coffee in the terminal and tried to board my next flight with it. That did not go over well -- the boarding GA just about knocked it out of my hand.
My point is that there weren't medical exceptions to the liquids requirements right away, either. As I recall, right at the beginning, it was no liquids of any kind on the plane, no exceptions, and the medical/kid/3.4 oz. in zip-lock bag/you can buy coffee in the terminal exceptions were introduced later, after people calmed down and it became clear how unworkable the draconian rules were.
I'd expect the same loosening to happen here. Two weeks from now there will be some new rules with bizzare compromises imbedded in them. (Of course, there will also be endless variations in how strictly the new, arbitrary, and unclear rules are enforced.)
My point is that there weren't medical exceptions to the liquids requirements right away, either. As I recall, right at the beginning, it was no liquids of any kind on the plane, no exceptions, and the medical/kid/3.4 oz. in zip-lock bag/you can buy coffee in the terminal exceptions were introduced later, after people calmed down and it became clear how unworkable the draconian rules were.
I'd expect the same loosening to happen here. Two weeks from now there will be some new rules with bizzare compromises imbedded in them. (Of course, there will also be endless variations in how strictly the new, arbitrary, and unclear rules are enforced.)
Dec 26, 2009, 1:02 pm
#86
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Department of Homeland Sincerity
Programs: WN Platinum
Posts: 12,085
The problem with these rules is that electronics are the most pilferable items and also the ones that create the most problems for airline security. I could carry a great deal less electronics if the airlines could come up with a way to reduce the theft rate from checked luggage.
My carry-on baggage bag usually lasts me 4-5 years. My checked luggage (which I rarely do), lasts me 4-5 trips.
Dec 26, 2009, 1:03 pm
#87
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Virginia and Vitoria, ES Brazil
Programs: UA 1K, Million Miler, *G, JJ, AD, Global Entry, CLEAR, H.O.G. Life Member
Posts: 1,407
UA, and I believe other airlines, have been doing carry on bag searches from Brazil to the US as one boards the plane for years. They allow 45 minutes for the boarding process and seem to have no problems meeting on time departures due to the extra screening. Airline personnel and contract workers perform the search. Of course, some of these folks are quite thorough in their search and others not so much. I think a number of airports are obviously unprepared for the additional security measurements due to lack of resources and that has been causing the delays. However, the 1 hour restriction on getting up and having personal material in your lap is pointless, although usually for descent the seat belt sign is on during the last 20 to 30 minutes anyway, so it is in effect adding an additional half hour or so. I fly again on 01/04 from GIG and will see if these recent changes have had any impact there.
Dec 26, 2009, 1:07 pm
#88
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Southern California/In the air
Programs: DL
Posts: 10,382
The first sets of rules don't appear to have medical exceptions listed. Yikes!
I think it's vital to at least mention the possibility of medical conditions so that crew and passengers know that they can use their reason, not fear, to test their assumptions*.
To do otherwise could foster an environment of freak-and-tackle first, ask questions later.
Having had both an ex and a family member with diabetes, I worry that the carefully surreptitious methods used to give an injection will be treated as suspicious and illegal. Will a person have to declare their disease to all nearby people and then be very visible in testing and injecting insulin? You cannot pre-define when a person will need to test and/or take insulin.
Having just flown two days ago, I watched children clutching their teddybears and being read to during the descent. I also watched babies drinking from bottles. If crew and passengers are told to treat normal and safe behavior as potentially suspicious--and not given any room to think about exceptions-- then there'll be a plane of freaked out kids and adults.
* Remember the incident a few years back where a plane was followed by an F16 simply because a family was chatting in non-English and pointing at tourist spots out the window, and this freaked out a passenger who couldn't be bothered to talk with the family first? The family included an Indian movie-star actress who could have answered any questions. Instead the fearful and cowardly passenger put the whole plane under danger.
I think it's vital to at least mention the possibility of medical conditions so that crew and passengers know that they can use their reason, not fear, to test their assumptions*.
To do otherwise could foster an environment of freak-and-tackle first, ask questions later.
Having had both an ex and a family member with diabetes, I worry that the carefully surreptitious methods used to give an injection will be treated as suspicious and illegal. Will a person have to declare their disease to all nearby people and then be very visible in testing and injecting insulin? You cannot pre-define when a person will need to test and/or take insulin.
Having just flown two days ago, I watched children clutching their teddybears and being read to during the descent. I also watched babies drinking from bottles. If crew and passengers are told to treat normal and safe behavior as potentially suspicious--and not given any room to think about exceptions-- then there'll be a plane of freaked out kids and adults.
* Remember the incident a few years back where a plane was followed by an F16 simply because a family was chatting in non-English and pointing at tourist spots out the window, and this freaked out a passenger who couldn't be bothered to talk with the family first? The family included an Indian movie-star actress who could have answered any questions. Instead the fearful and cowardly passenger put the whole plane under danger.
Dec 26, 2009, 1:13 pm
#89
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: source of weird and eccentric ideas
Posts: 38,692
The lack of medical exceptions will create issues for a lot of people. I feel sorry for people with IBS or even a simple case of the flu. Sometimes, you just have to go and, with taxi time and the line to clear customs/immigration, that last hour can easily drag into two or more.
Dec 26, 2009, 1:15 pm
#90
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Department of Homeland Sincerity
Programs: WN Platinum
Posts: 12,085
And if you have to do #2? How can much crap can the diapers hold? And how will you deal with diaper rash as a frequent traveler?
Will the #1 new symbol of elite fliers be how much diaper rash powder they use on a daily basis?