Flyer “Processed” (Arrested?) in NM After Declining to Show ID
#1696
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 90
My issue is not that he forgot the exact words that were used in the exchange but that he (Officer Dilley) characterized Phil during the encounter as yelling, disorderly, and disrupting the other passengers. That was not forgetfulness but setting up a false scenario so he could get a conviction.
#1697
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: Fallen Plats, ex-WN CP, DYKWIW; still a Hilton Diamond & Club Cholula™ R.I.P. Super Plats
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What an amazing coincidence!
#1698
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My issue is not that he forgot the exact words that were used in the exchange but that he (Officer Dilley) characterized Phil during the encounter as yelling, disorderly, and disrupting the other passengers. That was not forgetfulness but setting up a false scenario so he could get a conviction.
Bruce
#1699
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: DC area and San Francisco
Programs: SWA A-List, OnePass, AA, U-MP, more
Posts: 170
The prosecutor might not have told him that it had been recovered/undeleted.
What would be the motivation? The prosecutor asked to delay the case after seeing the video. They had to have spent time to consider the options. They likely knew at that point there had been evidence tampering, even though it was at a level they couldn't prosecute. (No chain of custody, combined with an excuse of "we didn't break or keep anything, we just deleted what we believed to be SSI images.") On the other hand, telling the officer starts down a path of conspiracy. Not on the first step, but it's easy to continue once you start.
In the final analysis the prosecutor did protect the police, by avoiding having the issue brought up in court. Imagine scenario 1, where the officer is questioned on cross examination and says "yes, I did delete that video". That action wasn't in any report, and is an admission of gross misconduct. In scenario 2 the officer says "no, nothing was deleted". There is a risk that a defendant that had a deleted video recovered also got timestamps showing when it happened. At that point an ethical prosecutor has a lot more work in front of them.
(I'm well aware of filesystem timestamps and structures. But most people are not. And even experts can't be certain about what extra information might have been logged by a particular camera. Do you know for certain that your camera doesn't have a timestamped button press log?
#1700
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,112
I'm not comfortable going that far. I consider myself having an above average memory. I saw Phil's tape twice and listened to the trial, where it was played another time or two. I posted that he said "I'm not going to answer any questions". Phil challenged me and denied saying that. What he really said was "I'm going to remain silent". Those are similar, but different.
I heard the tape three times and was in a quiet and calm environment when I did. And I misremembered it. Dilley heard him once and in a stressful environment with a lot going on.
When you hear something, you immediately interpret it. And what you normally remember hearing is that interpretation, whether correct or not.
I heard the tape three times and was in a quiet and calm environment when I did. And I misremembered it. Dilley heard him once and in a stressful environment with a lot going on.
When you hear something, you immediately interpret it. And what you normally remember hearing is that interpretation, whether correct or not.
#1702
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,728
Once that SSI holder has leaked it, the individual citizens are under no constraint to keep that information "secret."
Especially if they're being asked to sign such a document.
http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf
Deleting images or video on a camera taken into custody is a clear-cut case of "tampering with evidence" and possibly "destruction of property." At most, they could have secured the camera pending evaluation - but deleting the images is (to me) clear evidence that the police officers in question knew beyond any doubt that the video would show them in the wrong.
#1703
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 28,112
Sure seems like ABQ airport has a dirty cop, perhaps more than one!
#1704
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 1,439
belt tape: Reliable accurate unbiased witness but sometimes left off. Why?
Here's what was in a disc labeled "10-39 - CASE09-115050 CAD09110445" that I received in the public records dump:
Code:
468608 2009-11-19 20:47 DW_A0008.wav 17866880 2009-11-19 20:49 DW_A0008_1.wav 18267776 2009-11-19 20:50 DW_A0009.wav 17866880 2009-11-19 20:57 DW_A0008_2.wav
Code:
police_audio/DW_A0008.wav begin: 2009-11-15 14:35:41 end: 2009-11-15 14:36:23 length: 00:00:42 "done. causing a commotion" - "well, you can be arr--" police_audio/DW_A0008_1.wav begin: 2009-11-15 14:38:36 end: 2009-11-15 15:05:25 length: 00:26:49 police_audio/DW_A0008_2.wav same as DW_A0008_1.wav police_audio/DW_A0009.wav begin: 2009-11-15 16:35:33 end: 2009-11-15 17:20:30 length: 00:27:25 "stand up. hands on your head" - custody transfer at downtown police dept
The things that all this slack in their system allows to happen are maddening. If one person repeatedly takes advantage of the benefit of the doubt people are conditioned to give him, he's at great advantage. I think we should find a way to very consistently and reliably take accurate and tamperproof recordings of our police' interaction with the public, then save those recordings in such a manner that complete loss of them is extremely difficult.
#1705
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Bruce
#1706
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: where the chile is hot
Programs: AA,RR,NW,Delta ,UA,CO
Posts: 41,697
The things that all this slack in their system allows to happen are maddening. If one person repeatedly takes advantage of the benefit of the doubt people are conditioned to give him, he's at great advantage. I think we should find a way to very consistently and reliably take accurate and tamperproof recordings of our police' interaction with the public, then save those recordings in such a manner that complete loss of them is extremely difficult.
I am sure that any LEO of integrity would welcome a tamper-proof system as an aid to memory.
I am sure any LEO of integrity would admit that time and stress and many other factors can affect accurate recollection of facts.
I am sure that any LEO of integrity would want all prosecutions to be based on facts, not faulty recollections or selective memory lapses or enhancements.
#1708
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: DTW
Programs: DL 0.22 MM, AA 0.34 MM, PC Plat Amb, Hertz #1 GC 5*
Posts: 7,511
Silly question... what now? This has all been great recap, yet is there any action being planned or taken against the parties, or is this all just post-mortem for the next flight?
#1709
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: MSP
Programs: Fallen Plats, ex-WN CP, DYKWIW; still a Hilton Diamond & Club Cholula™ R.I.P. Super Plats
Posts: 25,415
I have a feeling that people who're into that sort of thing will be using something like this in the future.
#1710
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Wash D.C. metro area
Posts: 254