Feb 12, 2016, 8:56 am
Last edit by: beltway
This is the general 2016-2019 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24- 48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less that one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same card number, "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 1.5X for all spending, no bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Sapphire Reserve: $450 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading:
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Product Changes for United Airlines Cards
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Plus Club Card- $450 annual fee, 1.5 miles per $1, many additional premium card benefits
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? (2016-2019)
Aug 29, 2016, 1:26 pm
#211
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 581
As it is, you have an almost thin profile. It won't hurt you to keep cards open if there is no annual fee.
Aug 29, 2016, 1:30 pm
#212
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 391
I see. So better to have more cards (i.e., Freedom and AU Freedom), even though there won't be much activity in the AU one? If it helps, I don't mind keeping it at home stored somewhere.
Aug 29, 2016, 1:51 pm
#213
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 581
I don't carry balance at all (pay fully every month). From what I understood, it is good to have low utilization every statement (e.g., total bill less than 10% or 30% etc).
So if let's say combined I have 100K CL, and I only use 6K (6%) that is considered low utilization? Even if I use it all on one card that its CL is 10K? (60%)?
So if let's say combined I have 100K CL, and I only use 6K (6%) that is considered low utilization? Even if I use it all on one card that its CL is 10K? (60%)?
The way to optimize your cards is to let all but one card report at zero. Let one non-Chase card report at $2. After that card reports, pay it off. The reason why you can't use a Chase card for the $2 trick is because Chase reports mid-cycle when a card's balance is paid to zero.
Yeah, you can sock drawer cards. Just use them once every so months. It can be a $0.50 purchase. Just keep activity so your cards don't get closed for non-use.
Aug 29, 2016, 2:21 pm
#214
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: DC
Posts: 360
I have a box at home with just the cards that I don't use regularly (it's a few dozen).
In this case, not even that. It's just an AU card, even the account owner uses it, no need to worry about that.
Aug 29, 2016, 2:42 pm
#215
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 581
You're still under 5/24, so I'd get a Chase Ink. Why? 5x UR points "in combined purchases at office supply stores and on cellular phone, landline, internet and cable TV services each account anniversary year." The Ink Plus is $95/year and normally has a 60,000 signup bonus. In-branch, you can get a 70,000 point offer. There are some recent reports of 100,000 points and the first year's annual fee waived on in-branch applications. After the first year, I'd PC the Ink Plus to the no-annual fee Ink cash, unless you spend over $25,000/year in that 5x category. You can read more about these cards here: Chase Ink Business Cards - July 2015- Present
For international travel, you should have more than one card. All with no foreign transaction fees. The CSR will be your main card. What happens if you find it declined because of a fraud alert? I recommend backups. Plural. I recommend at least another Visa and one MasterCard. A no-annual fee Amex with no FTF is good to have in case you're concerned that you're about to get scammed into DCC. Is your Cap1 a Visa or MasterCard? That can be one backup. If it's not a Quicksilver, you may want to PC to one. Does your credit union card have a foreign transaction fee? What network? You may already be set.
After you have your Chase UR cards squared away, and you have your international wallet (don't forget ATM cards) set, I'd thicken my profile. Look at establishing relationships with some of the main credit card issuing banks that offer competitive rewards by opening bank branded no-annual fee cards that offer you utility. You can keep these cards open for many years. An Amex EveryDay card and BofA Travel Rewards card are good places to start. Citibank branded no-annual fee cards either suck, or have no signup bonus. You may want to pick any card that offers value, and then PC to a Double Cash after a year. Citi normally allows this to happen, but there was a recent stretch where they didn't, and there's no guarantee that they will in a year.
Now you have a nice size portfolio that's useful, and that you can let age. When your AAoA crosses two years, you should see a jump in your FICO scores. Again at five, seven, and ten years. If your FICO scores are high enough, don't be afraid to temporarily trash them when an excellent rewards opportunity presents itself... unless you're getting ready to apply for a mortgage!
Aug 29, 2016, 2:51 pm
#217
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 391
Thanks
A few comments/questions:
1) Yes, the credit union one does not have foreign transactions fees.
2) All my cards are Visa. Is there a good Mastercard with no annual fee you recommend? I'm less enthusiastic with AMEX since many places outside the US don't accept it. Same goes for Discovery.
3) I'm CPC, so I have a debit card with no fee even for international ATMs, so I can always use that as a 3rd backup.
Since I just started building my credit 2 years ago (high income and all, but new to the US) wouldn't all these hard inquiries hurt my score?
1) Yes, the credit union one does not have foreign transactions fees.
2) All my cards are Visa. Is there a good Mastercard with no annual fee you recommend? I'm less enthusiastic with AMEX since many places outside the US don't accept it. Same goes for Discovery.
3) I'm CPC, so I have a debit card with no fee even for international ATMs, so I can always use that as a 3rd backup.
Since I just started building my credit 2 years ago (high income and all, but new to the US) wouldn't all these hard inquiries hurt my score?
Aug 29, 2016, 3:16 pm
#218
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 581
A few comments/questions:
1) Yes, the credit union one does not have foreign transactions fees.
2) All my cards are Visa. Is there a good Mastercard with no annual fee you recommend? I'm less enthusiastic with AMEX since many places outside the US don't accept it. Same goes for Discovery.
3) I'm CPC, so I have a debit card with no fee even for international ATMs, so I can always use that as a 3rd backup.
Since I just started building my credit 2 years ago (high income and all, but new to the US) wouldn't all these hard inquiries hurt my score?
1) Yes, the credit union one does not have foreign transactions fees.
2) All my cards are Visa. Is there a good Mastercard with no annual fee you recommend? I'm less enthusiastic with AMEX since many places outside the US don't accept it. Same goes for Discovery.
3) I'm CPC, so I have a debit card with no fee even for international ATMs, so I can always use that as a 3rd backup.
Since I just started building my credit 2 years ago (high income and all, but new to the US) wouldn't all these hard inquiries hurt my score?
- Then you're fine for a backup.
- If we're talking about a MasterCard as a backup for international travel, I'd go with the First Tech Choice Rewards card. The rewards suck, but it's an excellent backup because it's also a chip & pin card. If you're not concerned about knowing if and when DCC is being offered, then you can skip an Amex for international travel. Especially, as you pointed out, that Amex may not even be accepted.
- Then you're set when pulling out cash!
The hard inquiries do hurt. Then after six months, most of the damage is gone. After twelve months, FICO doesn't even factor inquiries into scores. Unless you're within six months of applying for a mortgage, I wouldn't worry it. Trash your scores now, and then watch them rise back up in a matter of months.
Aug 29, 2016, 3:27 pm
#219
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 391
What's a dcc?
Should I be worried with CSR?
Aug 29, 2016, 3:30 pm
#220
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 581
DCC is dynamic currency conversion. The Amex network blocks it. You can read about it here:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cred...er-thread.html
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cred...er-thread.html
Aug 29, 2016, 4:01 pm
#221
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: PHX, ORD, MDW
Programs: WN A-List, Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold, National Executive Elite
Posts: 292
Have we determined the exact grace period for getting a Chase annual fee refunded? I cancelled my MileagePlus Explorer last week. The annual fee had posted back on June 1, but the rep said that because I cancelled within 90 days, I should be receiving a check in the mail to refund the AF. Haven't seen or heard anything since, but several posts in this thread indicate that the grace period is only 60 days.
Aug 29, 2016, 4:13 pm
#222
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 391
I was told 90 days
I was told got my CSP that within 90 days, if I cancel I get my AF back.
If I downgrade I can the relative AF back.
Haven't done it yet
If I downgrade I can the relative AF back.
Haven't done it yet
Aug 29, 2016, 7:50 pm
#223
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 122
how much is UR point worth?
thinking of freedom unlimited or citi double cash, which one worth more?
thinking of freedom unlimited or citi double cash, which one worth more?
Aug 30, 2016, 2:41 pm
#224
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 581
If you transfer UR points to a CSP, CSR, or Ink Plus account, they're worth more depending on how they're used. Could easily be worth $0.02+ per point.
Aug 30, 2016, 3:27 pm
#225
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 13
A few quick questions: If I downgrade from CSP to Freedom Unlimited, would my Ultimate Rewards points be automatically preserved? And, assuming I get the CSR next year after 5/24 rolls off, could I then transfer those points to the CSR account? Thanks in advance.