Feb 12, 2016, 8:56 am
Last edit by: beltway
This is the general 2016-2019 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24- 48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less that one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same card number, "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 1.5X for all spending, no bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Sapphire Reserve: $450 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading:
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Product Changes for United Airlines Cards
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Plus Club Card- $450 annual fee, 1.5 miles per $1, many additional premium card benefits
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? (2016-2019)
Sep 7, 2016, 11:24 am
#256
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 581
In that case PC your CSP to a CSR if it makes sense for you. Then when you're under 5/24, you can app for a CSR and get the signup bonus. This is, of course, provided that Chase's rules don't change by then. I expect the signup bonus to be less generous in the future. Just don't know when that future begins.
Sep 7, 2016, 1:00 pm
#257
Join Date: May 2012
Programs: UA, TY
Posts: 9
Close both of the United cards. Try to get a refund of AF on the MPE. It's hard to get a good offer to sign up for MPE if you hold any United card. The best offers usually show up in the spring. If you try to upgrade the no fee United, it will not be a Signature. I personally view the MPE as a churner card, however you may have different needs with United. Also, I don't know what non-Chase cards you have in regards to how valuable a 2005 open date is to your credit. It will stay on there 10 years after you close it.
Keep the Hyatt forever.
Never close a UR card. PC the CSP to a regular Freedom rather than a FU. Regular Freedom is more valuable with 5X categories, and nobody knows if it's going to go away at some point, while FU is here to stay.
Hope this helps!
Keep the Hyatt forever.
Never close a UR card. PC the CSP to a regular Freedom rather than a FU. Regular Freedom is more valuable with 5X categories, and nobody knows if it's going to go away at some point, while FU is here to stay.
Hope this helps!
Sep 7, 2016, 3:57 pm
#258
Join Date: May 2015
Location: LAX
Programs: AA, AS, UA, WN, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 88
Never thought about closing both...I have an Amex and Capital1 card that is roughly around the same age. I'm currently UA Gold and will probably maintain that for next year as well so I technically don't need to PC my no AF MP to a MPE as I'll retain all the same benefits correct?
Sep 7, 2016, 4:00 pm
#259
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 42
Close both of the United cards. Try to get a refund of AF on the MPE. It's hard to get a good offer to sign up for MPE if you hold any United card. The best offers usually show up in the spring. If you try to upgrade the no fee United, it will not be a Signature. I personally view the MPE as a churner card, however you may have different needs with United. Also, I don't know what non-Chase cards you have in regards to how valuable a 2005 open date is to your credit. It will stay on there 10 years after you close it.
Keep the Hyatt forever.
Never close a UR card. PC the CSP to a regular Freedom rather than a FU. Regular Freedom is more valuable with 5X categories, and nobody knows if it's going to go away at some point, while FU is here to stay.
Hope this helps!
Keep the Hyatt forever.
Never close a UR card. PC the CSP to a regular Freedom rather than a FU. Regular Freedom is more valuable with 5X categories, and nobody knows if it's going to go away at some point, while FU is here to stay.
Hope this helps!
Sep 7, 2016, 4:49 pm
#260
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 581
Anyone know why you should never close an UR card? I currently have a CSP (thinking about closing it), CSR, Slate (thinking about closing), Regular Freedom (must keep), and Regular United (no fee) which is my oldest account and should be kept in one form or another for credit history purposes. Any thoughts are welcome.
Considering 5/24, I think that it's an excellent idea to keep as many no-annual fee UR cards open as possible. You may be blocked from opening them if you change your mind.
If I were you, I'd PC the CSP to a Freedom Unlimited and the Slate to a second Freedom. You have a CSR, which is a great card. I'd use the Freedom Unlimited for non-category spend in the U.S. (but not abroad due to the 3% FTF) and earn 1.5 points for every dollar. A second Freedom lets you double category spend in those quarters when you can meet it. That's even more UR points.
As for the regular United card, how much older is it than your next oldest Chase card?
Sep 8, 2016, 9:07 am
#261
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 42
Keeping old no-annual fee cards open can only help your credit. I think that you need a compelling reason to close such cards, not to keep them open.
Considering 5/24, I think that it's an excellent idea to keep as many no-annual fee UR cards open as possible. You may be blocked from opening them if you change your mind.
If I were you, I'd PC the CSP to a Freedom Unlimited and the Slate to a second Freedom. You have a CSR, which is a great card. I'd use the Freedom Unlimited for non-category spend in the U.S. (but not abroad due to the 3% FTF) and earn 1.5 points for every dollar. A second Freedom lets you double category spend in those quarters when you can meet it. That's even more UR points.
As for the regular United card, how much older is it than your next oldest Chase card?
Considering 5/24, I think that it's an excellent idea to keep as many no-annual fee UR cards open as possible. You may be blocked from opening them if you change your mind.
If I were you, I'd PC the CSP to a Freedom Unlimited and the Slate to a second Freedom. You have a CSR, which is a great card. I'd use the Freedom Unlimited for non-category spend in the U.S. (but not abroad due to the 3% FTF) and earn 1.5 points for every dollar. A second Freedom lets you double category spend in those quarters when you can meet it. That's even more UR points.
As for the regular United card, how much older is it than your next oldest Chase card?
The United card is at least 7 years older than the rest. It was my first card (I downgraded from a fee United Card whose name escapes me for the moment). I may actually go back to a fee United next year just to get early boarding since my status will expire, ao perhaps I will PC it next year.
Is there any reason to close cards simply to have room? I have 5 total now and I wonder if I will miss out on the next big UR thing because I currently have so many. It seems the rule in that area is 5 cards over 24 months, which ignores total card accounts, so maybe there is no need to close a card at all.
Sep 8, 2016, 9:18 am
#262
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 437
Really helpful thanks, and the idea of two Freedoms in order to double category spend is not something I have considered - very smart!
The United card is at least 7 years older than the rest. It was my first card (I downgraded from a fee United Card whose name escapes me for the moment). I may actually go back to a fee United next year just to get early boarding since my status will expire, ao perhaps I will PC it next year.
Is there any reason to close cards simply to have room? I have 5 total now and I wonder if I will miss out on the next big UR thing because I currently have so many. It seems the rule in that area is 5 cards over 24 months, which ignores total card accounts, so maybe there is no need to close a card at all.
The United card is at least 7 years older than the rest. It was my first card (I downgraded from a fee United Card whose name escapes me for the moment). I may actually go back to a fee United next year just to get early boarding since my status will expire, ao perhaps I will PC it next year.
Is there any reason to close cards simply to have room? I have 5 total now and I wonder if I will miss out on the next big UR thing because I currently have so many. It seems the rule in that area is 5 cards over 24 months, which ignores total card accounts, so maybe there is no need to close a card at all.
1- which chase and non chase cards can not be churned?
2- how to find out if I am in 5/24 or over? Just call ask chase csr?
3- i thought freedom is only cashback, is there a freedom card that gives points?
4- is there a chase card that gives 5x points in office supply stores with no AF? (Chase ink cash only gives cash not points)
Sep 8, 2016, 11:45 am
#263
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: DC
Posts: 360
All of that is answered many times throughout FT.
Sep 8, 2016, 2:00 pm
#265
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SW Michigan, ex SF Bay Area
Posts: 832
3 and 4 are answered in the fine print on the pages on the Chase website that pertain to these cards. And you've received the answer in another thread, the answer being that all of the Freedom and Ink cards earn rewards in points, but if you only have the no-annual-fee versions, your redemption options for those points are limited. They advertise them as "cash back" cards presumably because that's easy to understand and many people are only interested in cash back.
Sep 8, 2016, 2:18 pm
#266
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 437
1 and 2 are answered in the Wiki in this thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...5-present.html
3 and 4 are answered in the fine print on the pages on the Chase website that pertain to these cards. And you've received the answer in another thread, the answer being that all of the Freedom and Ink cards earn rewards in points, but if you only have the no-annual-fee versions, your redemption options for those points are limited. They advertise them as "cash back" cards presumably because that's easy to understand and many people are only interested in cash back.
3 and 4 are answered in the fine print on the pages on the Chase website that pertain to these cards. And you've received the answer in another thread, the answer being that all of the Freedom and Ink cards earn rewards in points, but if you only have the no-annual-fee versions, your redemption options for those points are limited. They advertise them as "cash back" cards presumably because that's easy to understand and many people are only interested in cash back.
Sep 8, 2016, 4:34 pm
#267
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Programs: AA EP; WN CP;UA SILVER; MARRIOTT TITANIUM; HH DIAMOND; IHG PLAT; RADISSON PLAT; HYATT GLOBAL
Posts: 1,938
I appreciate in advance the answer to my dilemma, my Ink Plus fee hit and I have called twice for retention, nothing! Other years I would get 10K UR for $5K spend which was enough for me.
Anyways, I was going to cancel, but I see that I can downgrade to Ink Cash. What is the benefit of downgrading (as long as I can still get the 5X at office supplies). Thanks. I have a UA Bus and Ink Bold. I want to get in near future the Marriot Business. How will it affect to cancel or downgrade Ink Plus.
Thanks!!
Anyways, I was going to cancel, but I see that I can downgrade to Ink Cash. What is the benefit of downgrading (as long as I can still get the 5X at office supplies). Thanks. I have a UA Bus and Ink Bold. I want to get in near future the Marriot Business. How will it affect to cancel or downgrade Ink Plus.
Thanks!!
Sep 8, 2016, 4:51 pm
#268
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 581
Really helpful thanks, and the idea of two Freedoms in order to double category spend is not something I have considered - very smart!
The United card is at least 7 years older than the rest. It was my first card (I downgraded from a fee United Card whose name escapes me for the moment). I may actually go back to a fee United next year just to get early boarding since my status will expire, ao perhaps I will PC it next year.
Is there any reason to close cards simply to have room? I have 5 total now and I wonder if I will miss out on the next big UR thing because I currently have so many. It seems the rule in that area is 5 cards over 24 months, which ignores total card accounts, so maybe there is no need to close a card at all.
The United card is at least 7 years older than the rest. It was my first card (I downgraded from a fee United Card whose name escapes me for the moment). I may actually go back to a fee United next year just to get early boarding since my status will expire, ao perhaps I will PC it next year.
Is there any reason to close cards simply to have room? I have 5 total now and I wonder if I will miss out on the next big UR thing because I currently have so many. It seems the rule in that area is 5 cards over 24 months, which ignores total card accounts, so maybe there is no need to close a card at all.
Chase does care about allowing a new credit card to be opened if the applicant is at 5+/24, but this is separate from the number of existing cards.
So yeah, you have no reason at this point to close a no-annual fee card. Just make sure that you use each card every six months. It can be a pack of chewing gum. This is just to prevent Chase from closing an account for inactivity.
Sep 8, 2016, 5:26 pm
#269
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 576
I appreciate in advance the answer to my dilemma, my Ink Plus fee hit and I have called twice for retention, nothing! Other years I would get 10K UR for $5K spend which was enough for me.
Anyways, I was going to cancel, but I see that I can downgrade to Ink Cash. What is the benefit of downgrading (as long as I can still get the 5X at office supplies). Thanks. I have a UA Bus and Ink Bold. I want to get in near future the Marriot Business. How will it affect to cancel or downgrade Ink Plus.
Thanks!!
Anyways, I was going to cancel, but I see that I can downgrade to Ink Cash. What is the benefit of downgrading (as long as I can still get the 5X at office supplies). Thanks. I have a UA Bus and Ink Bold. I want to get in near future the Marriot Business. How will it affect to cancel or downgrade Ink Plus.
Thanks!!
Sep 8, 2016, 5:32 pm
#270
Join Date: May 2015
Location: LAX, BUR
Programs: AS,AA,JB, HH Gold, Starriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Explorist, Global Entry
Posts: 1,933
I always closed accounts because i want to churn. Simple as that. My questions are
1- which chase and non chase cards can not be churned?
2- how to find out if I am in 5/24 or over? Just call ask chase csr?
3- i thought freedom is only cashback, is there a freedom card that gives points?
4- is there a chase card that gives 5x points in office supply stores with no AF? (Chase ink cash only gives cash not points)
1- which chase and non chase cards can not be churned?
2- how to find out if I am in 5/24 or over? Just call ask chase csr?
3- i thought freedom is only cashback, is there a freedom card that gives points?
4- is there a chase card that gives 5x points in office supply stores with no AF? (Chase ink cash only gives cash not points)