Feb 12, 2016, 8:56 am
Last edit by: beltway
This is the general 2016-2019 thread for weighing the relative merits
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
of keeping, downgrading, or canceling Chase-issued credit cards.
Post-2019 discussion continues in this thread.
What's the main reason people product change (PC)?
The benefits offered by a particular card, might suit you better than the card you are holding. Many people, unable to qualify for a new Chase Sapphire Reserve application, upgraded from the Sapphire Preferred to the Sapphire Reserve, because the benefits of the CSR's cash reimbursements made the annual fee a nominal difference the first year. And vice versa- the onerous $450 yearly fee of the CSR makes an appealing case to downgrade to the Sapphire Preferred, and eventually to the no-fee Sapphire or a Freedom card.
Many people product change to avoid the annual fees on the premium versions of the card. Keeping the card open, via a product change, keeps the account open. This allows you to retain the seasoned account, and the banking relationship that the older card has established with Chase.
Why not just cancel the card and be done with it?
This may be the right choice for you, but others want some of the card benefits without having to reapply. Also, Chase has become very restrictive for new card applicants. For Chase cards, you must wait 24- 48 months since the last time you received a bonus before reapplying. Please see the threads on the individual cards for updated overlay rules.
An additional (and more stringent) overlay is the infamous 5/24 rule, which Chase instituted in May 2016 as a counter-measure against churning, or, as they refer to it, "Serial Starters." The 5/24 rule is that you won't be eligible for most Chase card products if you've opened more than 5 credit cards in 24 months. For more on this and other application-related issues, see the current "Applying for Chase Credit Cards " Master thread.
Finally, canceling certain cards--those earning Chase Ultimate Rewards--may deprive you of the ability to exchange UR for miles/points in air & hotel programs. See Ultimate Rewards transfer partners, times & rules.
Is there any way I can keep a card without paying the annual fee?
See Chase Retention Bonuses: June 2015-Present
Are there any restrictions on product changes?
Product changes are only allowed within the same card "family," and are not permitted between business and personal cards. Also, Chase cites the federal CARD Act to deny product changes on any account less that one year old.
Will a product change count as a new card?
No, you will keep your same card number, "opened on" date, credit line, automatic payment arrangements, etc. A product change does not count against Chase's 5/24 limitations on new cards.
Will I get a signup bonus when I change?
No, product changes do not result in point bonuses. Signup bonuses are reserved for new applicants only. For the complete list of public sign up offers, check the Chase sitemap here: https://creditcards.chase.com/sitemap
Is there a place I can look to compare cards?
Go here: https://creditcards.chase.com/credit...D=177087865887
Click: All cards
Place a checkmark in the Compare box for up to three cards.
Click: Compare cards...and you should see a side-by-side display.
I've figured out what I want to switch to. How do I product change my card?
Call the number on the back of your card.
Product changes for the Ultimate Reward Business and Personal Card Family
The UR family of cards includes the Chase Ink business cards, the Freedom Unlimited, the Freedom Card, and the Chase Sapphire Preferred, Reserve and Sapphire.
The Slate (personal) card is also available to downgrade to. It has no annual fee and does not earn any type of reward points. It offers a low fee (currently 0% for the first 60 days) balance transfers and APR.
Personal Cards
- Freedom: 5X points in rotating quarterly categories up to $1500 spend per quarter. If you max out the $1500 every quarter, it totals 7500 UR per quarter, or 30,000 UR per year.
- Freedom Unlimited: 1.5X for all spending, no bonus categories. $20,000 in spend would net 30,000 UR per year.
- Sapphire Reserve: $450 annual fee, $300 annual travel credit, 3X points for travel and dining. Books travel through the UR portal for 1.5 per dollar. Lounge access and other goodies. See the thread here for details.
- Sapphire Preferred: $95 annual fee, 2X points for travel & dining
- For discussion specific to the Sapphire Preferred Card, see Chase Sapphire Preferred - Keep, Downgrade, or Cancel?
- Sapphire: Not available to new applicants. Available as a product downgrade/change only, must tier down from the Sapphire Reserve to Sapphire Preferred to Sapphire or Freedom cards. No annual fee. Some Customer Service Reps are citing that the original product (i.e., the CSR), must be held for one year before downgrading. Please provide data points in the thread if this happens to you.
Business Cards
- Ink Plus: $95 annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and hotels
- Ink Preferred: 3x on travel, shipping, internet/phone/cable, & some online advertising.
- Ink Cash: No annual fee, 5X office supplies, 5X cellular/landline/cable; 2X gas and restaurants
If you still have a legacy Ink Classic or Ink Bold business card, neither of which is available for new signups, you can product change to one of the other Ink cards.
Considerations for downgrading/upgrading:
Can I combine my UR points?
Yes, UR can be combined freely across the cardholder's own personal and business accounts.
What about transfering my UR to another person's Chase UR account? To their air/hotel partner account?
With restrictions, UR from a personal card can be transferred to a person living at the same address. Business cards allow transfer to owners of the company listed as authorized users.
However, be warned that there are transfer restrictions. Unauthorized transfers have resulted in shut-downs. Review the Chase T&C for details before planning a transfer. For discussion, see http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/chase...-accounts.html.
The Freedom cards, no-fee Ink Cash, and no-fee Sapphire cards do not allow UR transfer to airline/hotel partners. If you are downgrading from a premium UR card and will only have no-fee cards left, it may be prudent to transfer your points to the partner of your choice beforehand.
I know I can use UR to pay for travel directly (as opposed to transfering points into a travel partner program). Do the Chase UR cards differ on this?
Only the Sapphire Reserve books travel on the UR portal for 1.5. So you can stack your card bonus opportunities when your UR points are combined into your CSR account and used for booking travel. If, for instance, you earned 5x on your Ink Plus on your phone bill, and combine those 5x Ink earned points into your CSR's UR account, you'll now get an additional .5 in value when you redeem them on the travel portal.
Product Changes for United Airlines Cards
There are options to downgrade or upgrade UA cards.
- United Mileage Plus Card- no annual fee, 1 UA mile per $2 in spend
- United Mileage Plus Explorer Card- $95 annual fee, 1 mile per dollar earning, additional award inventory on UA, free checked bag, 25% bonus on the shopping portal.
- United Plus Club Card- $450 annual fee, 1.5 miles per $1, many additional premium card benefits
- Business Cards for the Mileage Plus and Club Card give you a choice to upgrade or downgrade between those two.
Southwest Airlines Cards
The difference here is a nominal $30/3000 points per year.
Personal cards
- Plus Card- $69 annual fee, 3000 bonus points upon renewal
- Premiere Card- $99 annual fee, 6000 bonus points upon renewal
Chase Product Change/Card Conversion: Downgrade, Upgrade, Keep or Cancel? (2016-2019)
Sep 8, 2016, 6:25 pm
#271
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 437
I have not read any reports of Chase limiting the number of Chase credit cards. There are many reports of Chase limiting the total exposure of credit across all Chase credit cards, but they don't seem to care how many Chase cards you have.
Chase does care about allowing a new credit card to be opened if the applicant is at 5+/24, but this is separate from the number of existing cards.
So yeah, you have no reason at this point to close a no-annual fee card. Just make sure that you use each card every six months. It can be a pack of chewing gum. This is just to prevent Chase from closing an account for inactivity.
Chase does care about allowing a new credit card to be opened if the applicant is at 5+/24, but this is separate from the number of existing cards.
So yeah, you have no reason at this point to close a no-annual fee card. Just make sure that you use each card every six months. It can be a pack of chewing gum. This is just to prevent Chase from closing an account for inactivity.
Sep 9, 2016, 5:49 am
#272
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 278
I appreciate in advance the answer to my dilemma, my Ink Plus fee hit and I have called twice for retention, nothing! Other years I would get 10K UR for $5K spend which was enough for me.
Anyways, I was going to cancel, but I see that I can downgrade to Ink Cash. What is the benefit of downgrading (as long as I can still get the 5X at office supplies). Thanks. I have a UA Bus and Ink Bold. I want to get in near future the Marriot Business. How will it affect to cancel or downgrade Ink Plus.
Thanks!!
Anyways, I was going to cancel, but I see that I can downgrade to Ink Cash. What is the benefit of downgrading (as long as I can still get the 5X at office supplies). Thanks. I have a UA Bus and Ink Bold. I want to get in near future the Marriot Business. How will it affect to cancel or downgrade Ink Plus.
Thanks!!
-- Capped at $25k/year for 5x
-- Can't transfer to partners
-- No 1.25x bump for flights bought with UR
Pros:
-- No AF
-- Pick up 2x on restaurants
The downside of the product conversion is you don't get the $200 (20k UR) for the new account. The pros of that are you don't have another new account against 5/24, no HP, and you get to keep the account age a little older.
BTW, the 5x UR points I get from ink is the reason I don't play around with cancelling it. I also keep one in the wife's name. I don't like to hit too close to the $50k limit per year, as I value the chase relationship too much. So, I just pay $190 AF for the two. And I have CSR. We harvest UR.
Sep 9, 2016, 8:51 am
#273
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Programs: AA EP; WN CP;UA SILVER; MARRIOTT TITANIUM; HH DIAMOND; IHG PLAT; RADISSON PLAT; HYATT GLOBAL
Posts: 1,938
Cons:
-- Capped at $25k/year for 5x
-- Can't transfer to partners
-- No 1.25x bump for flights bought with UR
Pros:
-- No AF
-- Pick up 2x on restaurants
The downside of the product conversion is you don't get the $200 (20k UR) for the new account. The pros of that are you don't have another new account against 5/24, no HP, and you get to keep the account age a little older.
BTW, the 5x UR points I get from ink is the reason I don't play around with cancelling it. I also keep one in the wife's name. I don't like to hit too close to the $50k limit per year, as I value the chase relationship too much. So, I just pay $190 AF for the two. And I have CSR. We harvest UR.
-- Capped at $25k/year for 5x
-- Can't transfer to partners
-- No 1.25x bump for flights bought with UR
Pros:
-- No AF
-- Pick up 2x on restaurants
The downside of the product conversion is you don't get the $200 (20k UR) for the new account. The pros of that are you don't have another new account against 5/24, no HP, and you get to keep the account age a little older.
BTW, the 5x UR points I get from ink is the reason I don't play around with cancelling it. I also keep one in the wife's name. I don't like to hit too close to the $50k limit per year, as I value the chase relationship too much. So, I just pay $190 AF for the two. And I have CSR. We harvest UR.
I don't mind downgrading to cash, not getting $200 bonus, to avoid 5/24.
I will keep Bold, and reading this, will downgrade to cash, but now question is will this affect me when trying to get Marriot business (I read it is exempt from 5/24, main question is if chase sees too many business cards)
Sep 11, 2016, 7:06 pm
#274
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 52
I've had two chase card AF come due this month. The Ink Plus Business and the Marriott Rewards. I have very little spend on either card so I'm not anticipating retention offers on either card. I'm planning on applying for the CSR in December as soon I'm under the 5/24.
Does anyone think it will hurt my chances of getting the CSR if I cancel both a personal and a business card a few months before applying?
Should I just downgrade the Plus to the Cash?
Is there a No AF card for Marriott?
I really want the CSR and dont want to hurt my chances of getting it once I am under the 5/24.
Does anyone think it will hurt my chances of getting the CSR if I cancel both a personal and a business card a few months before applying?
Should I just downgrade the Plus to the Cash?
Is there a No AF card for Marriott?
I really want the CSR and dont want to hurt my chances of getting it once I am under the 5/24.
Sep 12, 2016, 10:09 am
#275
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 581
I've had two chase card AF come due this month. The Ink Plus Business and the Marriott Rewards. I have very little spend on either card so I'm not anticipating retention offers on either card. I'm planning on applying for the CSR in December as soon I'm under the 5/24.
Does anyone think it will hurt my chances of getting the CSR if I cancel both a personal and a business card a few months before applying?
Should I just downgrade the Plus to the Cash?
Is there a No AF card for Marriott?
I really want the CSR and dont want to hurt my chances of getting it once I am under the 5/24.
Does anyone think it will hurt my chances of getting the CSR if I cancel both a personal and a business card a few months before applying?
Should I just downgrade the Plus to the Cash?
Is there a No AF card for Marriott?
I really want the CSR and dont want to hurt my chances of getting it once I am under the 5/24.
Not sure about Marriott.
Sep 12, 2016, 10:56 am
#276
Join Date: May 2015
Location: LAX
Programs: AA, AS, UA, WN, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 88
I've had two chase card AF come due this month. The Ink Plus Business and the Marriott Rewards. I have very little spend on either card so I'm not anticipating retention offers on either card. I'm planning on applying for the CSR in December as soon I'm under the 5/24.
Does anyone think it will hurt my chances of getting the CSR if I cancel both a personal and a business card a few months before applying?
Should I just downgrade the Plus to the Cash?
Is there a No AF card for Marriott?
I really want the CSR and dont want to hurt my chances of getting it once I am under the 5/24.
Does anyone think it will hurt my chances of getting the CSR if I cancel both a personal and a business card a few months before applying?
Should I just downgrade the Plus to the Cash?
Is there a No AF card for Marriott?
I really want the CSR and dont want to hurt my chances of getting it once I am under the 5/24.
Sep 12, 2016, 1:18 pm
#277
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Sunny AZ
Programs: HH Diamond, Sixt Platinum, IHG Spire Ambassador, Marriott/SPG Gold .....
Posts: 3,215
Sep 12, 2016, 8:38 pm
#278
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: On strike
Posts: 8,135
If it works for you, rock on. Just don't assume that everyone else is similarly situated.
Sep 13, 2016, 3:38 am
#279
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
Ok, I'm in a mess of a situation. I'd like the new Sapphire Reserve, but due to some antics with BofA last year [1] the odds of me getting under 5/24 anytime soon are pretty slim [2].
On the one hand, I have a CSP (descended from the former Chase AGR card, and retained in no small part because of the age of the account) and a Hyatt card (main benefit is the free night plus guaranteed status...but I stay with Hyatt enough to clear Platinum with room to spare and using the free night occasionally gets clunky since it involves forcibly splitting a reservation much of the time) and I'm prepared to entertain flipping one of them (Hyatt feels like the weak link...honestly, with the better Chase card I'd never have a reason to even consider using the Hyatt card since 3x on hotels would mean I'd get as many UR points for using the CSR as I would for using Hyatt's own card...and I'm not going to lose roughly half of the value of the points if I want to swap to another partner).
On the other hand...it's $1500 d*** dollars worth of sign-up bonus and/or enough points that, alongside my existing UR balance, gets me a shiny trip or two on SQ.
So, having not applied yet, basically my options are as follows (in rough order of preference/ease):
(1) Apply for CSR online. Probably going to get turned down; I won't be at 5/24 for another 12 months.
(2) Apply for CSR in-bank. Not sure if I can trigger some sort of override. My nearest branch is about 200 miles away (I'm in VA, they're in DE), but I'd happily do this next time I'm in FL if it would help things (I am in Orlando often enough to justify doing this).
(3) Convert the Hyatt card to CSR. I'd lose auto-platinum status (largely a non-issue) and the free night (net benefit of about $50-100 depending on use), but with CSR out there the odds of me ever actually using the Hyatt card would become a value roughly approximating $0. This is the newer of the two cards, so it really has the least losses on killing it if I needed to down the line.
(4) Convert the CSP card to CSR. Main issue is that I have an AU on it and I don't want the AU getting stuck and/or being hit with another $75 in fees. It's also my oldest regularly-used card (due to its AGR pedigree), so if I was going to do any games with axing-and-reapplying I'd be disinclined to use this card.
[1] Basically, due to "reasons" I wound up with three cards (two AGR cards and a VS card) when I'd initially only planned to get one (one AGR card). All this right before Chase really started throwing 5/24 at us. Yes, I had significant reasons to want the AGR cards, and yes this was before the "second round" mess with the AGR changes.
[2] In the "normal" course of events I find that I'm applying for a card or two per year [dealing with joys such as the VX-AS merger, AGR switching companies, etc.] before even considering churning/bonus-chasing. I've effectively had my "preferred" card(s) shift about four times in the last 12 months due to changing tides (though I will readily admit this was basically a perfect storm).
On the one hand, I have a CSP (descended from the former Chase AGR card, and retained in no small part because of the age of the account) and a Hyatt card (main benefit is the free night plus guaranteed status...but I stay with Hyatt enough to clear Platinum with room to spare and using the free night occasionally gets clunky since it involves forcibly splitting a reservation much of the time) and I'm prepared to entertain flipping one of them (Hyatt feels like the weak link...honestly, with the better Chase card I'd never have a reason to even consider using the Hyatt card since 3x on hotels would mean I'd get as many UR points for using the CSR as I would for using Hyatt's own card...and I'm not going to lose roughly half of the value of the points if I want to swap to another partner).
On the other hand...it's $1500 d*** dollars worth of sign-up bonus and/or enough points that, alongside my existing UR balance, gets me a shiny trip or two on SQ.
So, having not applied yet, basically my options are as follows (in rough order of preference/ease):
(1) Apply for CSR online. Probably going to get turned down; I won't be at 5/24 for another 12 months.
(2) Apply for CSR in-bank. Not sure if I can trigger some sort of override. My nearest branch is about 200 miles away (I'm in VA, they're in DE), but I'd happily do this next time I'm in FL if it would help things (I am in Orlando often enough to justify doing this).
(3) Convert the Hyatt card to CSR. I'd lose auto-platinum status (largely a non-issue) and the free night (net benefit of about $50-100 depending on use), but with CSR out there the odds of me ever actually using the Hyatt card would become a value roughly approximating $0. This is the newer of the two cards, so it really has the least losses on killing it if I needed to down the line.
(4) Convert the CSP card to CSR. Main issue is that I have an AU on it and I don't want the AU getting stuck and/or being hit with another $75 in fees. It's also my oldest regularly-used card (due to its AGR pedigree), so if I was going to do any games with axing-and-reapplying I'd be disinclined to use this card.
[1] Basically, due to "reasons" I wound up with three cards (two AGR cards and a VS card) when I'd initially only planned to get one (one AGR card). All this right before Chase really started throwing 5/24 at us. Yes, I had significant reasons to want the AGR cards, and yes this was before the "second round" mess with the AGR changes.
[2] In the "normal" course of events I find that I'm applying for a card or two per year [dealing with joys such as the VX-AS merger, AGR switching companies, etc.] before even considering churning/bonus-chasing. I've effectively had my "preferred" card(s) shift about four times in the last 12 months due to changing tides (though I will readily admit this was basically a perfect storm).
Sep 13, 2016, 4:17 am
#280
Join Date: Feb 2013
Programs: Hilton Plastic, Delta Silver Emeritus
Posts: 1,037
Hyatt can't become CSR.
Chase branded card to Chase branded card.
Cobranded card to similar cobranded card.
Chase branded card to Chase branded card.
Cobranded card to similar cobranded card.
Sep 13, 2016, 4:34 am
#281
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: Amtrak Guest Rewards (SE), Virgin America Elevate, Hyatt Gold Passport (Platinum), VIA Preference
Posts: 3,134
[1] There are a lot of antics I've got patience for...rotating categories are not high on the list.
Sep 13, 2016, 4:47 am
#282
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: EWN/OAJ/RDU/ILM (Formerly BTV)
Programs: HH D i a m o n d !!!
Posts: 356
Any possibility of product changing an old Chase/United Mileage Plus Awards card or a Chase AARP card into something else?
I'd love to get additional Freedom or a FU? Ink Cash? I'm guessing United can go down to a no-AF United and the AARP cannot go to anything else but just wondering. Thanks
I'd love to get additional Freedom or a FU? Ink Cash? I'm guessing United can go down to a no-AF United and the AARP cannot go to anything else but just wondering. Thanks
Sep 15, 2016, 2:13 pm
#283
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 9
Downgrading CSP
Just got approved for CSR through in-branch pre-approval, am over 5/24. Thinking of what to downgrade the CSP to - struggling between a 2nd Freedom (but not sure I'd be able to max categories each quarter on both cards) and Freedom Unlimited (for the 1.5 on everything). Since I'm over 5/24, I won't be able to sign up (i.e. not downgrade) for the Freedom Unlimited anytime soon to get the sign-on bonus. I currently have the regular Freedom, CSP, CSR and IHG from Chase.
Any advice?
Any advice?
Sep 15, 2016, 4:14 pm
#284
Join Date: May 2015
Location: LAX, BUR
Programs: AS,AA,JB, HH Gold, Starriott Titanium Elite, Hyatt Explorist, Global Entry
Posts: 1,933
Sep 16, 2016, 6:43 am
#285
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NYC
Programs: Kettle Class
Posts: 798
I PCed to the Freedom Unlimited and will plan to use it on spend falling outside of the CSR and regular Freedom bonus categories. I personally rarely exceed the $1,500 cap on the regular Freedom's quarterly bonus categories.
Just got approved for CSR through in-branch pre-
approval, am over 5/24. Thinking of what to downgrade the CSP to - struggling between a 2nd Freedom (but not sure I'd be able to max categories each quarter on both cards) and Freedom Unlimited (for the 1.5 on everything). Since I'm over 5/24, I won't be able to sign up (i.e. not downgrade) for the Freedom Unlimited anytime soon to get the sign-on bonus. I currently have the regular Freedom, CSP, CSR and IHG from Chase.
Any advice?
approval, am over 5/24. Thinking of what to downgrade the CSP to - struggling between a 2nd Freedom (but not sure I'd be able to max categories each quarter on both cards) and Freedom Unlimited (for the 1.5 on everything). Since I'm over 5/24, I won't be able to sign up (i.e. not downgrade) for the Freedom Unlimited anytime soon to get the sign-on bonus. I currently have the regular Freedom, CSP, CSR and IHG from Chase.
Any advice?