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Originally Posted by Denizen
(Post 9578763)
I am still waiting for CBSAguy to answer the question I (and others) posed a few days ago - Why do Canadian customs agents ask more intrusive questions and are generally ruder than almost all other countries (in the world not just the US by the way)? Will CBSAguy please face the fact that a remarkable number of people in a very short time on this forum have reported this - doesn't this indicate something in itself? We aren't just inventing these stories and complaints and we are just the people who speak up - note the number of reading hits this forum point has evoked in such a short time.
Leaving NEXUS and US/Canada aside, many of us have visited many countries other than the US or Canada and know that there is a DEFINITE DIFFERENCE between Canada and almost every other country in how they treat returning CITIZENS. That is what I would like CSBA to explain. When I go to Communist China or Russia(as a visitor of course - not as a citizen), I give them my passport, they run it through the system, they look at my face, stamp the passport and that's it. I have even got angry with them for inefficiency once and they just apologized. When I come back, my own country gives me the third degree, looks at me like I just killed my parents, sneers at my responses and if I complain (did that once), then it is off to the secondary with me. I challenged them that I was only being taken to secondary because I complained and they said "Oh no sir, this is only random". What a lot of BS - you are all on a power trip and Canadian citizens are afraid to speak up because they don't need the hassle. But that does not make it right! |
Originally Posted by ylwae
(Post 9578755)
Yes. I'll feeled very soothed the next time I have to waste time in secondary because I declared a small overage.
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Agreed! Not enough people write to their MPs!
In the end the tax is pretty insignificant. I buy stuff because I want it, not because it is necessarily cheaper. Nexus has a great form that speeds up the process of paying!^ |
And yet the government keeps raping me for over $4500 in taxes a year... any good idea on how much of _THAT_ goes to paying for our national security so we can get that "welcome home" From CBSA agents eventually? Hmmm?
Sanosuke! |
Originally Posted by CBSAguy
(Post 9578856)
The reason we ask more questions is because one can elicit a lot more information from a person's responses to questions than one can by simply looking at someone's face, as you've informed me is the primary screening tool in use by Chinese and Russian border officials.
What the hell is all this information you are looking for? I am a CITIZEN and my passport says on it "to allow the bearer to pass freely without let or hindrance". That includes you!!!!! You know, CSBAguy, I am beginning to wonder about you - are you just brainwashed by your organization and not as independent as you claim to be or is it something more sinister - are you paid to attend this forum? |
Just how many "terrorists" have been caught at these checkpoints? :rolleyes:
Why bother when they could stroll in via the cargo field gates or just hop the fence or stand under the decent path and do whatever. All those lasers pointed at pilots, they could just as easily be an aiming scope. But no one is guarding the approach paths...they're all overseas (but I digress...) When going through security (or my 1 time and hopefully last tip via US customs) I remain stonefaced. There is no way I'm giving these people anything extra. They claim to be "just doing their jobs" but if pressed into further service they'd go all the way. The train engineers who drove the cattle cars were "just doing their jobs". Just following orders... They can imprison us, do nasty thing, or export us to Syria (how come the nice border agents didn't stop that one??), but they can never take away our soul. I'm not kidding. Remember that. We have it lucky (for now) compared to other countries but when push comes to shove these guys ain't gonna sit around and debate the constitution with you; They'll don their masks and bring out the tasers and batons first. History has proven this - learn from it! B..b...but that can't happen here? Famous last words. |
Originally Posted by CBSAguy
(Post 9577192)
I'd get Nexus if I was travelling every week. Though, oddly enough, every time a flight arrives, if the hall is empty, I seem to always get a Nexus user at my counter "because it's faster than using the machine".
If I had NEXUS, I would take great pleasure in using the machines in an empty hall with 20 agents at pil.
Originally Posted by CBSAguy
(Post 9577790)
cur: I found the following post you made on May 20th, 2006. Just curious as to what's changed your opinion since then.
My friend is in CBSA training and he says that it is made extremely clear that the CBSA is mandated to go after -Terrorism -Money laundering -Weapons smuggling -Drugs -Missing children Not residents bringing in extra clothes. The reason why they changed them from CCRA to CBSA (you'll see their new uniforms on the 1st of June) is because they're now enforcers, not tax collectors. It costs $7 for the CBSA to collect tax/duty/penalties. While people say the agents are lazy, the same people are also saying that they're keen to process paperwork over stupid things like t-shirts. Agreed with the OP over YVR though. It's pathetic. Although blaming front-liners is easy and requires no effort, I'd blame the airport authority's poor usage of your AIF and the 4 or so AZN flights and 2 from the EU over 2 hours, rather than bashing the agents who "go on lunch breaks right in front of me". You don't know why they are getting out of their station, and I'm sure you didn't see them go to the lunch room to microwave lunch. Take into account that the BSA probably keeps the numbers of people in the front stations at 80% in order to control the flow of people through the baggage hall. If you pump people through as quickly as possible, you're going to have the whole bag hall full beyond reason and threads coming up on FT whining about how full the hall is. 2) little has changed. controlling the flow of pax at a dinky airport like YYC is important. however, the YVR style of getting up from PIL in the middle of a flight is abhorrent. i wrote that post before i was stood up twice in a week by YVR BS officers during the azn flight rush, right in front of the superintendent and chief. 3) i'm not anti BSA. i'm anti dimwit BSo. unfortunately, the proportion of those in this agency higher than other agencies. CBSAguy likely knows (and dreads) these people. like the Jamacian woman at YYZ T1 who becomes hostile when you can't understand her incomprehensible accent, the guys behind the counter in YYC in the early afternoon who automatically send questions to the BIS line, the 20-something BSOs in YVR who never smile. There are many great BSOs out there, and I see them frequently. The dimwits, however, I only run into once. Funny how that happens.
Originally Posted by Sanosuke
(Post 9577843)
Cur, you have done a great job at defending yourself pretty well as well but we sometimes have to yield to authority if they ask nicely and professionally as they have in my case of secondaries.
I do, however, have issues with yappy dogs who carry batons who see me as a threat or who take great pleasure in enforcing the rules irresponsibly. I don't automatically engage with a BSO. The smart ones would put me in my place. The stupid ones are just way too easy to have fun with. |
Originally Posted by CBSAguy
(Post 9578856)
The reason we ask more questions is because one can elicit a lot more information from a person's responses to questions than one can by simply looking at someone's face, as you've informed me is the primary screening tool in use by Chinese and Russian border officials.
So using this logic, a nuclear physicist dressed by Harry Rosen would be sent to secondary the exact same number of times as the a nuclear physicist who subscribes to a system similar to that of what we once called "hippies". I'd like to say I could believe that.
Originally Posted by CBSAguy
(Post 9578876)
Sounds like you want the exemptions raised. That's fair, but do not complain to me about having to pay duty/tax that is lawfully owing. Complain to your MP. He/she will certainly have more clout in that regard than I do.
Especially considering senate committee after senate committee have said that these exemptions should be raised. Maybe Canada's political elite are sending signals to the front liners? I know that managers in cBSa are dicks, but there's no way you can say they would try to take disciplinary action towards a BSO for sending an overage on its way. This is one example of how the USA's obsession with the wars on drugs and terrorism can be a good thing for normal people; because they carry guns, their front liners care about targeting the big fish who are a threat to the nation. Ironically, this more friendly to the public than the agency who would want to meet the tax window's quota by nailing the college kid who lawfully declaring an extra mickey of vodka on his annual vacation. I bet the BSo's who dump all the forfeited liquor down sleep like infants every night. |
Originally Posted by CBSAguy
(Post 9578856)
The reason we ask more questions is because one can elicit a lot more information from a person's responses to questions than one can by simply looking at someone's face, as you've informed me is the primary screening tool in use by Chinese and Russian border officials.
a) What "information" do you need to determine whether they are a Canadian citizen, and allowed entry into Canada, beyond verifying they are who their passport says? b) What "information" do you need other than to inspect their goods and make sure that they are allowable and/or within the requisite allowance? What someone's job is; how many times they have been to the UK; whether they attended a conference or not; whether you think they are too old to be a student; whether you agree with whatever they were doing abroad; how much money they make or how large their house is - is none of your business to fulfil these two functions. Simon |
Originally Posted by tomh009
(Post 9577819)
Right ... somehow you and I are "lucky" every time, whereas Simon has problems every time. :confused: :rolleyes: :confused:
I rarely got sent to secondary before then, and when I did (other than the time that the primary officers decided "tonight, EVERYONE with a laptop goes to secondary" - must have been a screening for drugs and weapons :rolleyes:) the secondary officers would generally say "there is no reason you should have been sent back here." I am annoyed that myself, fellow FTers, and other employees of my company and other colleagues constantly relate these stories of the level of questioning they receive vs. what we all get going to other countries where security is generally considered more of a concern. Simon |
Originally Posted by Simon
(Post 9579090)
a) What "information" do you need to determine whether they are a Canadian citizen, and allowed entry into Canada, beyond verifying they are who their passport says?
9. Examining Canadian citizens at ports of entry http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resourc...s/op/op16e.pdf9.1. The right to come into Canada A Canadian citizen within the meaning of the Citizenship Act has a right to enter and remain in Canada pursuant to A19(1). 9.2. Examination of Canadian citizens A15(1) provides for an officer to proceed with an examination where a person makes an application to the officer in accordance with the Act. R28(b) provides that a person seeking to enter Canada is making an application. Additionally, A18(1) requires every person seeking to enter Canada to appear for an examination to determine whether they have the right to enter Canada or may be authorized to enter and remain in Canada. This includes Canadian citizens. A CBSA officer at Immigration Secondary will normally examine a Canadian citizen only when the CBSA officer at PIL doubts the person’s citizenship. A CBSA officer at a port of entry should examine Canadian citizens as expeditiously as possible. Once the officer establishes that a person is a Canadian citizen, the examination should end and the person should be allowed to enter Canada without further delay. It is not appropriate for CBSA Immigration Secondary officers to elicit further personal information from a Canadian citizen. Canadian citizens may be asked to willingly provide additional information if it will assist an officer in determining the admissibility of an accompanying foreign national. 9.3. Determining Canadian citizenship The following documents are acceptable proof of Canadian citizenship: • Canadian passport; • Certificate of Canadian Citizenship (both large and pocket or wallet size; the smaller form now exists in two versions: one with a 44mm x 57mm (1 ¾” x 2 ¼”) photograph, and the other with a 35mm X 53mm (1 3/8" X 2 1/16") photograph); • Canadian Emergency Passport (a CBSA officer at PIL will automatically refer for secondary examination a person in possession of a Canadian Emergency Passport. Once they have verified the person's identity, the CBSA officer at Immigration Secondary retains the passport and forwards it to the Passport Office, Foreign Affairs Canada, Ottawa); • Certificate of Naturalization; • Certificate of Registration of Birth Abroad; and • Certificate of Retention of Canadian Citizenship. A Canadian provincial birth certificate is a good indicator of Canadian citizenship, but does not contain a photograph. The CBSA officer must therefore be satisfied that the person is the rightful holder. 5.3. Canadian citizens and registered Indians: Entry to Canada Canadian citizens and registered Indians have the right to enter Canada and are therefore not subject to any specified documentary requirements at any point of entry. However, they must be able to satisfy an examining officer that they are citizens of Canada or registered Indians before they may exercise their right to enter. This can be done by presenting travel or status documents, or secondary identity documents, verbally or through a combination of such evidence. Canadian passports, citizenship cards and birth certificates are some of the documents that are presented to satisfy examining officers at ports of entry that the holders are citizens of Canada. The Certificate of Indian Status is the document used to demonstrate that the holder is registered as an Indian under the Indian Act. |
Originally Posted by cur
(Post 9579028)
It's because they want to avoid the automatic secondaries given for a 100ml liquor overage.
If I had NEXUS, I would take great pleasure in using the machines in an empty hall with 20 agents at pil. 1) you have way too much time on your hands. maybe you should take some ot on your days off. 2) little has changed. controlling the flow of pax at a dinky airport like YYC is important. however, the YVR style of getting up from PIL in the middle of a flight is abhorrent. i wrote that post before i was stood up twice in a week by YVR BS officers during the azn flight rush, right in front of the superintendent and chief. 3) i'm not anti BSA. i'm anti dimwit BSo. unfortunately, the proportion of those in this agency higher than other agencies. CBSAguy likely knows (and dreads) these people. like the Jamacian woman at YYZ T1 who becomes hostile when you can't understand her incomprehensible accent, the guys behind the counter in YYC in the early afternoon who automatically send questions to the BIS line, the 20-something BSOs in YVR who never smile. There are many great BSOs out there, and I see them frequently. The dimwits, however, I only run into once. Funny how that happens. I have no issue with authority. I have no issue with someone carrying out their duties as defined within the law, and I am together with BSOs who promote a model of responsible enforcement. I do, however, have issues with yappy dogs who carry batons who see me as a threat or who take great pleasure in enforcing the rules irresponsibly. I don't automatically engage with a BSO. The smart ones would put me in my place. The stupid ones are just way too easy to have fun with. |
Excellent information, KVS. Kudos to you. Stick it to the man!
We should all print this out and hand it in with our passport next time we re-enter Canada and see what happens next. |
Originally Posted by cur
(Post 9579077)
Right, BSOs never use physical indicators to make decisions.
So using this logic, a nuclear physicist dressed by Harry Rosen would be sent to secondary the exact same number of times as the a nuclear physicist who subscribes to a system similar to that of what we once called "hippies". I'd like to say I could believe that. You're kidding me. The 'green means go, red means stop, and nothing else' mantra is why the public hates your agency so much. Especially considering senate committee after senate committee have said that these exemptions should be raised. Maybe Canada's political elite are sending signals to the front liners? I know that managers in cBSa are dicks, but there's no way you can say they would try to take disciplinary action towards a BSO for sending an overage on its way. This is one example of how the USA's obsession with the wars on drugs and terrorism can be a good thing for normal people; because they carry guns, their front liners care about targeting the big fish who are a threat to the nation. Ironically, this more friendly to the public than the agency who would want to meet the tax window's quota by nailing the college kid who lawfully declaring an extra mickey of vodka on his annual vacation. I bet the BSo's who dump all the forfeited liquor down sleep like infants every night. And no one is drinking the abandoned liquor, but thank you for the ignorant comment. |
Originally Posted by Tangoer
(Post 9578941)
Just how many "terrorists" have been caught at these checkpoints? :rolleyes:
Why bother when they could stroll in via the cargo field gates or just hop the fence or stand under the decent path and do whatever. All those lasers pointed at pilots, they could just as easily be an aiming scope. But no one is guarding the approach paths...they're all overseas (but I digress...) When going through security (or my 1 time and hopefully last tip via US customs) I remain stonefaced. There is no way I'm giving these people anything extra. They claim to be "just doing their jobs" but if pressed into further service they'd go all the way. The train engineers who drove the cattle cars were "just doing their jobs". Just following orders... They can imprison us, do nasty thing, or export us to Syria (how come the nice border agents didn't stop that one??), but they can never take away our soul. I'm not kidding. Remember that. We have it lucky (for now) compared to other countries but when push comes to shove these guys ain't gonna sit around and debate the constitution with you; They'll don their masks and bring out the tasers and batons first. History has proven this - learn from it! B..b...but that can't happen here? Famous last words. |
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