Looks like more entry restrictions for Canada coming
Jan 25, 2021, 2:54 pm
#91
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Well keep this thread updated as I am flying into Canada tomorrow and leaving again on Wednesday. Need to know whether I should turn around before I enter if I won’t be able to leave again.
Jan 25, 2021, 3:01 pm
#92
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My current belief, subject to change, is that the federal government is bluffing simply in order to discourage vacation travel, thereby reducing the chance of bad press.
My original vacation plans have been delayed because our flights were cancelled. We'll try again in April. Everything is always booked fully refundable. If they are cancelled again, no problem. We are, after all, in a global pandemic.
In our case we will probably both be vaccinated by then. Add a test going and another test coming back followed by two weeks in our house, I'm pretty sure we are not going to be a hazard to anyone. In our very particular cases, due to our occupations ("front line heroes"
), we will be far less of a danger the public than if were just to continue with our regularly scheduled programming.
My original vacation plans have been delayed because our flights were cancelled. We'll try again in April. Everything is always booked fully refundable. If they are cancelled again, no problem. We are, after all, in a global pandemic.
In our case we will probably both be vaccinated by then. Add a test going and another test coming back followed by two weeks in our house, I'm pretty sure we are not going to be a hazard to anyone. In our very particular cases, due to our occupations ("front line heroes"
), we will be far less of a danger the public than if were just to continue with our regularly scheduled programming.https://globalnews.ca/news/7598069/m...el-ban-survey/
Once we have quarantine on arrival in hotels, it won't just be for a month or two but for much longer, similar to what we are seeing in DownUnder as well as places like Thailand where it is now almost impossible to go back to any other format without opening the doors to the virus.
I have a feeling last year was 'easy' compared to what is to come this year.
Jan 25, 2021, 3:35 pm
#93
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Jan 25, 2021, 3:57 pm
#94
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Alberta Health is concerned about the possibility of importing new variants. They just stated on their webcast that they will be changing the rule for the test on arrival pilot program to have participants remain in self isolation now until the second test, and the changes will be retroactive.
Jan 25, 2021, 4:00 pm
#95
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YYCCL3 beat me to it. So, effectively 7 to 8 day quarantine.
Perhaps this beefed up policy can also be used to carve out an exemption from any hotel prison scheme Ottawa decides to impose on the rest of Canada.
This is what data and science based policy looks like folks. As a Canadian and Albertan by choice, I am a little extra proud to be the latter right now.
Perhaps this beefed up policy can also be used to carve out an exemption from any hotel prison scheme Ottawa decides to impose on the rest of Canada.
This is what data and science based policy looks like folks. As a Canadian and Albertan by choice, I am a little extra proud to be the latter right now.
Jan 25, 2021, 4:02 pm
#96
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This is what I heard at the radio this afternoon.
The federal government is planning to implement a rapid antigen testing at arrival, for anyone. If someone tests positive, obviously he/she is going to be sent in a managed quarantine facility.
They did not decide yet if they will also send to hotels those who test negative, they said there are some disagreement about this point in the government, some minister arguing for it, some saying it is too much...
The federal government is planning to implement a rapid antigen testing at arrival, for anyone. If someone tests positive, obviously he/she is going to be sent in a managed quarantine facility.
They did not decide yet if they will also send to hotels those who test negative, they said there are some disagreement about this point in the government, some minister arguing for it, some saying it is too much...
Jan 25, 2021, 4:34 pm
#98
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Bluffing today perhaps but if people insist on non-essential leisure vacations it might be risky to call their bluff.
https://twitter.com/globeandmail/sta...15040424464384
https://twitter.com/globeandmail/sta...15040424464384
Jan 25, 2021, 4:50 pm
#99
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A tremendous number of truck drivers cross into Canada daily, and then stay at their homes. Their family members participate in Canadian society, going shopping, etc. The points the drivers visit in USA reportedly have greater caseload, the loading/fueling/etc processes could result in more contagion. If the government performed mandatory testing on arrival for all drivers, we might learn something. However what is learned might be too damaging to logistics capacity ...
I guess we wait for the first variant to come in via a truck, except contact tracing is broken and highly secretive.
Jan 25, 2021, 4:57 pm
#100
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Havent you heard - its all sun-seeking vacationeers fault! Lock em up!
Jan 25, 2021, 5:03 pm
#101
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In the Q&A after today's announcement from Alberta, the Minister said that these changes were made after communication with the Feds.
The antigen test on arrival is way past due. If they had done that, or some version of the Alberta program early on, we wouldn't have this hotel prison discussion. I am very curious to find out if the UK and SA strain cases identified in Alberta are from travellers via YYC who took part in the pilot program, or whose point of entry was elsewhere and not tested on arrival.
The antigen test on arrival is way past due. If they had done that, or some version of the Alberta program early on, we wouldn't have this hotel prison discussion. I am very curious to find out if the UK and SA strain cases identified in Alberta are from travellers via YYC who took part in the pilot program, or whose point of entry was elsewhere and not tested on arrival.
Last edited by tcook052; Jan 25, 2021 at 8:06 pm Reason: Off topic
Jan 25, 2021, 5:18 pm
#102
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It is poor science if the study is narrow and incomplete.
A tremendous number of truck drivers cross into Canada daily, and then stay at their homes. Their family members participate in Canadian society, going shopping, etc. The points the drivers visit in USA reportedly have greater caseload, the loading/fueling/etc processes could result in more contagion. If the government performed mandatory testing on arrival for all drivers, we might learn something. However what is learned might be too damaging to logistics capacity ...
I guess we wait for the first variant to come in via a truck, except contact tracing is broken and highly secretive.
A tremendous number of truck drivers cross into Canada daily, and then stay at their homes. Their family members participate in Canadian society, going shopping, etc. The points the drivers visit in USA reportedly have greater caseload, the loading/fueling/etc processes could result in more contagion. If the government performed mandatory testing on arrival for all drivers, we might learn something. However what is learned might be too damaging to logistics capacity ...
I guess we wait for the first variant to come in via a truck, except contact tracing is broken and highly secretive.
Last edited by tcook052; Jan 25, 2021 at 6:16 pm Reason: Off topic
Jan 25, 2021, 5:32 pm
#103
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The feds are under pretty direct fire from the Premiers who want tougher measures. Layer on top of that Premiers, opposition parties and the public who seem to be angry about the Pfizer vaccine delivery changes which seem to be dominating the news cycles and I think you have a government that is both talking tough and likely to follow it up with more measures.
This is what I heard at the radio this afternoon.
The federal government is planning to implement a rapid antigen testing at arrival, for anyone. If someone tests positive, obviously he/she is going to be sent in a managed quarantine facility.
They did not decide yet if they will also send to hotels those who test negative, they said there are some disagreement about this point in the government, some minister arguing for it, some saying it is too much...
The federal government is planning to implement a rapid antigen testing at arrival, for anyone. If someone tests positive, obviously he/she is going to be sent in a managed quarantine facility.
They did not decide yet if they will also send to hotels those who test negative, they said there are some disagreement about this point in the government, some minister arguing for it, some saying it is too much...
I wonder if you get hotel points if you are put up in quarantine.
Jan 25, 2021, 5:48 pm
#104
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We're hearing more and more noise from premiers about international travel, but are there actual cases of outbreaks linked to someone breaking the quarantine and running around in public?
I don't see how spring break can be that much of a threat this year. Just by looking at flight schedules, there are few direct flights going south. A small number to Florida, 3x/week to LAX, some Cancun, a few islands. The U.S. carriers have very limited frequencies to hub airports, making connections quite difficult. Most of the sun routes AC/WS offer end up getting cancelled in the weeks leading up to the flights. I know for a fact that teachers have been instructed by school boards not to travel while the quarantine rule is in effect, so that rules out a significant number of would-be March break travellers.
They can force incoming travellers to stay in hotels and quarantine camps all they like, but it's not going to address the real issue - shared househoulds with people working in high risk environments (food processing warehouses, nursing homes, Amazon/Canada Post warehouses, factories). It's as if they want to scapegoat the odd vacationer because doing anything to target the actual problem would suddenly make life inconvenient for those in lockdown and working from home.
I don't see how spring break can be that much of a threat this year. Just by looking at flight schedules, there are few direct flights going south. A small number to Florida, 3x/week to LAX, some Cancun, a few islands. The U.S. carriers have very limited frequencies to hub airports, making connections quite difficult. Most of the sun routes AC/WS offer end up getting cancelled in the weeks leading up to the flights. I know for a fact that teachers have been instructed by school boards not to travel while the quarantine rule is in effect, so that rules out a significant number of would-be March break travellers.
They can force incoming travellers to stay in hotels and quarantine camps all they like, but it's not going to address the real issue - shared househoulds with people working in high risk environments (food processing warehouses, nursing homes, Amazon/Canada Post warehouses, factories). It's as if they want to scapegoat the odd vacationer because doing anything to target the actual problem would suddenly make life inconvenient for those in lockdown and working from home.
Jan 25, 2021, 6:17 pm
#105
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My 2c (well, this is more like a toonie) on the matter: the hotel quarantine would make my life incredibly difficult. I cannot work from anywhere, I can work from home. The 14-day quarantine requirement is onerous, inconvenient, and ineffective, but mostly understandable (and, for better or worse, it has become a world standard). I would also understand and encourage banning non-essential travel (VFR, tourism) both domestically and internationally though it is very questionable how that would be enforced and/or defined.
For me, no travel = no work (i.e. no income). It's that simple. In June, I went to Europe, and since it was more a trial run than anything, came back and quarantined the full 14 days. In August, I left once again, this time staying in Europe indefinitely because returning to a 14-day quarantine in Canada made no sense. I returned in November, as lockdowns hit again, and was lucky enough my arrival was just after the implementation of the pilot project.
A mandatory hotel quarantine in which the government pays for the hotel would be too much of a taxpayer burden, in my opinion. On the other hand, a $3000 quarantine (as is the case in Australia) is incredibly costly.
It is truly unfortunate many (most) people cannot follow simple rules and/or consider themselves to be above them. In all my quarantines, I have fully respected the rules and I believe that is enough to prevent rapid community spread. However, I personally know multiple individuals who arrived back in Canada and to varying degrees flaunted the rules (some more egregiously than others). Personally, a hotel quarantine would be a complete waste of two weeks of my life (well, OK, I could read a lot of books and brush up on my languages). For many others, it would not make much of a difference, either in work (computer) or pleasure (TV) - neither of these apply to me.
I also believe there are many types of traveling - having seen (first-hand) videos of party scenes at Mexican resorts, I have a different appreciation for banning travel. From my perspective, whether I'm at home or on the road, my life continues very much the same, and though the risk is obviously increased while traveling, I tended to even make (not take!) meals in my hotel room towards the end of my European stay. Knock on wood, having visited a dozen countries and traveled extensively, I did not get sick.
I would agree to almost any measure if we were successfully fighting the virus (see: Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, even China). But we have not been successful, we have vast community spread (including of the many variants) and banning/restricting travel further will not impact this. As long as we have hundreds of thousands of people crossing the border regularly, both from our neighbour and from far-reaching countries, who do not require quarantine or testing of any sort, we have zero chance of keeping out any potential future variants.
I feel like Canada is trying to respect "constitutional rights" by penalizing those who have no alternative but to travel, while simultaneously giving exemptions to a broad swathe of individuals, many of whom actually do not strictly require one.
Surely, testing is (in the case of Alberta) and would be (for the rest of Canada) the most effective method, though to be honest, I feel the government is singling out travelers as a very easy scapegoat rather than focusing on at-risk areas domestically.
TL;DR - I do not support hotel quarantine, but I believe travel should be limited. Also, where's 2022?
For me, no travel = no work (i.e. no income). It's that simple. In June, I went to Europe, and since it was more a trial run than anything, came back and quarantined the full 14 days. In August, I left once again, this time staying in Europe indefinitely because returning to a 14-day quarantine in Canada made no sense. I returned in November, as lockdowns hit again, and was lucky enough my arrival was just after the implementation of the pilot project.
A mandatory hotel quarantine in which the government pays for the hotel would be too much of a taxpayer burden, in my opinion. On the other hand, a $3000 quarantine (as is the case in Australia) is incredibly costly.
It is truly unfortunate many (most) people cannot follow simple rules and/or consider themselves to be above them. In all my quarantines, I have fully respected the rules and I believe that is enough to prevent rapid community spread. However, I personally know multiple individuals who arrived back in Canada and to varying degrees flaunted the rules (some more egregiously than others). Personally, a hotel quarantine would be a complete waste of two weeks of my life (well, OK, I could read a lot of books and brush up on my languages). For many others, it would not make much of a difference, either in work (computer) or pleasure (TV) - neither of these apply to me.
I also believe there are many types of traveling - having seen (first-hand) videos of party scenes at Mexican resorts, I have a different appreciation for banning travel. From my perspective, whether I'm at home or on the road, my life continues very much the same, and though the risk is obviously increased while traveling, I tended to even make (not take!) meals in my hotel room towards the end of my European stay. Knock on wood, having visited a dozen countries and traveled extensively, I did not get sick.
I would agree to almost any measure if we were successfully fighting the virus (see: Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, even China). But we have not been successful, we have vast community spread (including of the many variants) and banning/restricting travel further will not impact this. As long as we have hundreds of thousands of people crossing the border regularly, both from our neighbour and from far-reaching countries, who do not require quarantine or testing of any sort, we have zero chance of keeping out any potential future variants.
I feel like Canada is trying to respect "constitutional rights" by penalizing those who have no alternative but to travel, while simultaneously giving exemptions to a broad swathe of individuals, many of whom actually do not strictly require one.
Surely, testing is (in the case of Alberta) and would be (for the rest of Canada) the most effective method, though to be honest, I feel the government is singling out travelers as a very easy scapegoat rather than focusing on at-risk areas domestically.
TL;DR - I do not support hotel quarantine, but I believe travel should be limited. Also, where's 2022?