Why did BA stop seat selection?
Oct 12, 2008, 6:58 am
#46
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 537
One frustration with the current system is that it makes little discrimination between passengers who are very particular about where they sit and those who simply do not care. Offered the option of selecting a seat, most people will do so, but whether they would have minded a different or "worse" seat is quite another thing.
I mind very much where I sit and knowing that this has been sorted out used to give me a valuable sense of security. With the current policy, I must be prepared to have no idea at all until 24 hours before flying, at which point I must ensure I rush to a computer and make a decision very fast - and this is only if the airport supports online check-in in the first place! That this is partly to accommodate those people who have chosen seats because of their status or fare but in fact really don't mind where they sit is an annoyance, and the 24-hours-in-advance antics always interfere with my time abroad.
It would be silly to imagine BA providing passengers with a check-box marked "I care passionately about seating preferences" but the current system could still be improved.
I would prefer the ability to select a seat when I book, even if my choice of seats at that time were limited with the rest open to passengers with status or paying expensive fares and put up for selection by the masses only later. I could then at least choose a seat that met my requirements and feel confident that this much had been secured, while those who have higher status or who book on more expensive fares could still be offered 'better' seats first.
I mind very much where I sit and knowing that this has been sorted out used to give me a valuable sense of security. With the current policy, I must be prepared to have no idea at all until 24 hours before flying, at which point I must ensure I rush to a computer and make a decision very fast - and this is only if the airport supports online check-in in the first place! That this is partly to accommodate those people who have chosen seats because of their status or fare but in fact really don't mind where they sit is an annoyance, and the 24-hours-in-advance antics always interfere with my time abroad.
It would be silly to imagine BA providing passengers with a check-box marked "I care passionately about seating preferences" but the current system could still be improved.
I would prefer the ability to select a seat when I book, even if my choice of seats at that time were limited with the rest open to passengers with status or paying expensive fares and put up for selection by the masses only later. I could then at least choose a seat that met my requirements and feel confident that this much had been secured, while those who have higher status or who book on more expensive fares could still be offered 'better' seats first.
Oct 12, 2008, 7:10 am
#47
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The real issue with the policy, and an unintended consequence, is the lack of seats side by side.
Most Silver and Gold card holders are solo business travellers. When they select a seat, they for a row with no-one else on it and plonk themselves down, thinking that if they are lucky then that seat could remain empty and they won't (in CW) have to stare at or clamber over someone else. You therefore only need a relatively small % of the cabin to preselect seats to get to a stage at -24hrs where there are few window pairs available.
Most Silver and Gold card holders are solo business travellers. When they select a seat, they for a row with no-one else on it and plonk themselves down, thinking that if they are lucky then that seat could remain empty and they won't (in CW) have to stare at or clamber over someone else. You therefore only need a relatively small % of the cabin to preselect seats to get to a stage at -24hrs where there are few window pairs available.
Oct 12, 2008, 7:29 am
#48
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Are you sure that isn't "Mostly from me"?Now I'm 
.
The BA policy means that at T-24, you get a largely wide-open seat map with lots to choose from. The very best seats are gone to the higher tier FFs, of course, but that would be similar with any airline that does any pre-allocation. The BA policy can't make that any worse. IME, when checking in family members who do not have the status to pre-allocate, the current seating policy usually gets them better seats than were available under the previous "anything goes" policy, which IMHO was disastrous.
It may be different in J and F, but on any realistic view there are very few bad seats in J and no bad seats in F.
What the BA policy does is (a) stop people pulling "first come first served" stunts, which are almost always inappropriate in the context of the airline industry; and (b) fail to assuage the feelings of those who can't cope with uncertainty.
.The BA policy means that at T-24, you get a largely wide-open seat map with lots to choose from. The very best seats are gone to the higher tier FFs, of course, but that would be similar with any airline that does any pre-allocation. The BA policy can't make that any worse. IME, when checking in family members who do not have the status to pre-allocate, the current seating policy usually gets them better seats than were available under the previous "anything goes" policy, which IMHO was disastrous.
It may be different in J and F, but on any realistic view there are very few bad seats in J and no bad seats in F.
What the BA policy does is (a) stop people pulling "first come first served" stunts, which are almost always inappropriate in the context of the airline industry; and (b) fail to assuage the feelings of those who can't cope with uncertainty.
Oct 12, 2008, 7:39 am
#49
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The real issue with the policy, and an unintended consequence, is the lack of seats side by side.
Most Silver and Gold card holders are solo business travellers. When they select a seat, they for a row with no-one else on it and plonk themselves down, thinking that if they are lucky then that seat could remain empty and they won't (in CW) have to stare at or clamber over someone else. You therefore only need a relatively small % of the cabin to preselect seats to get to a stage at -24hrs where there are few window pairs available.
Most Silver and Gold card holders are solo business travellers. When they select a seat, they for a row with no-one else on it and plonk themselves down, thinking that if they are lucky then that seat could remain empty and they won't (in CW) have to stare at or clamber over someone else. You therefore only need a relatively small % of the cabin to preselect seats to get to a stage at -24hrs where there are few window pairs available.
What amuses me about these threads are the 'swathes' of people leaving BA for other carriers they can select seats on. Until the general sh!t hit the fan over past months worldwide, BA's loads/$$ didn't seem to have suffered too much from a policy that has been in place for many, many months now - more than enough to shake out "oh I booked before the policy and had no choice but to stick with the booking"
I didn't get that sense (either on board or from posted results) in premium cabins. And in WT I suspect a large number of pax would sell their soul for a 5 quid discount on their holiday, never mind their ability to pre-select a seat - such is the "I want the lowest headline price and damn the extras, I'll moan later" mentality the likes of FR have managed to breed. If you want the race to the bottom you can't have it all ways - and in that light, great for BA to protect the 'premium' pax in Y with proven loyalty or on full fare tickets for work (poor sods).
Last edited by G-BOAC; Oct 12, 2008 at 7:46 am
Oct 12, 2008, 7:52 am
#50
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The BA policy means that at T-24, you get a largely wide-open seat map with lots to choose from. The very best seats are gone to the higher tier FFs, of course, but that would be similar with any airline that does any pre-allocation. The BA policy can't make that any worse. IME, when checking in family members who do not have the status to pre-allocate, the current seating policy usually gets them better seats than were available under the previous "anything goes" policy, which IMHO was disastrous.
It may be different in J and F, but on any realistic view there are very few bad seats in J and no bad seats in F.
What the BA policy does is (a) stop people pulling "first come first served" stunts, which are almost always inappropriate in the context of the airline industry; and (b) fail to assuage the feelings of those who can't cope with uncertainty.
It may be different in J and F, but on any realistic view there are very few bad seats in J and no bad seats in F.
What the BA policy does is (a) stop people pulling "first come first served" stunts, which are almost always inappropriate in the context of the airline industry; and (b) fail to assuage the feelings of those who can't cope with uncertainty.
How could it be better? Somewhere back to where it was, with a free for all preallocation up to a limit, elites up to another limit and the really good seats held back for OLCI. That would suit me better, but I accept that whatever is put in place is going to annoy someone.
Oct 12, 2008, 7:56 am
#51
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Location: Argentina
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I doubt that any system is perfect to be honest.
No matter which airline I have flown with.....all with different seating policies. I always see a stream of people pestering the gate agents for a change of seats.
No matter which airline I have flown with.....all with different seating policies. I always see a stream of people pestering the gate agents for a change of seats.
Oct 12, 2008, 11:10 am
#52
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold, UA Gold
Posts: 2,022
Lot of different groups to try and please with a seat selection policy. Elites. Premium cabin flyers. Full fare / flex ticket holders. Families / group bookings. Those who book their tickets early. Those who book their tickets late and pay a load extra for it.
In terms of the really desirable seats, there are only a handful on every plane and invariably there are more people who want to sit in them with decent-ish reasons for getting them than seats available... so invariably some people are going to be disappointed.
I do agree though, at T-24, for WT and WT+, you do tend to get a largely open seat map, and in my pre-Silver days I never had issue getting a half decent seat - even if it did mean rushing to the computer at some unearthly hour. The system perhaps falls down a little with connecting flights that you're not able to check in for when you're in the air at T-24.
For J/F, it's clearly more of an issue due to density of elite members, and if you're booking late on busy, elite-heavy routes, you're probably not getting the seat you want. But are there really any terrible seats in these cabins? I'm really not that bothered where I end up.
In terms of the really desirable seats, there are only a handful on every plane and invariably there are more people who want to sit in them with decent-ish reasons for getting them than seats available... so invariably some people are going to be disappointed.
I do agree though, at T-24, for WT and WT+, you do tend to get a largely open seat map, and in my pre-Silver days I never had issue getting a half decent seat - even if it did mean rushing to the computer at some unearthly hour. The system perhaps falls down a little with connecting flights that you're not able to check in for when you're in the air at T-24.
For J/F, it's clearly more of an issue due to density of elite members, and if you're booking late on busy, elite-heavy routes, you're probably not getting the seat you want. But are there really any terrible seats in these cabins? I'm really not that bothered where I end up.
Oct 12, 2008, 12:35 pm
#53
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South East, UK
Programs: BA Gold / GfL, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,432
That’s all very well & good, for the outbound leg of the journey.
But how are you supposed to OLCI on the return ?
Spend the last day of your holidays frantically trying to get access to some computer somewhere ??
Just so you can get a seat assigned & not risk having yourself & your partner split up on the return flight. Or end up in crappy, bottom of the pile seats.
I don’t think so
Exactly what I’m doing & loving every minute of it
But how are you supposed to OLCI on the return ?
Spend the last day of your holidays frantically trying to get access to some computer somewhere ??
Just so you can get a seat assigned & not risk having yourself & your partner split up on the return flight. Or end up in crappy, bottom of the pile seats.
I don’t think so
Exactly what I’m doing & loving every minute of it
As many people have posted, there are plenty of locations these days where you can get easy access to a PC in most cities. But that is not really necessary - if you have a half-decent mobile phone that has a good browser you can use that to check-in online. In 5 minutes you will have completed check-in and you can do it pretty much anywhere.
OK. You will have to pay roaming data charges, but if it's that important to you I don't see it as being an issue.
Oct 12, 2008, 12:53 pm
#54
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BOS
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*row 26 on a 777
I could never get that row when I could preselect a seat as they were never available
Oct 12, 2008, 2:51 pm
#55
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles
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Having one done this (for 4 people) I would NOT recommend it. Vodafone's bargainious roaming data charges at the time (£8/mb) meant checking in for the flight cost me more than the ticket itself.
Oct 12, 2008, 3:32 pm
#56
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ireland
Programs: No longer bothered chasing FF status.
Posts: 2,345
Originally Posted by Gaz
......even if it did mean rushing to the computer at some unearthly hour. ........
Having to be at a computer at exactly -24hr in order to get your seat. When other carriers allow you to have this done at the time of booking.
It's additional hassle I can do without, given the already fraught experience air travel & airports are these days.
Originally Posted by Gaz
....... But are there really any terrible seats in these cabins? I'm really not that bothered where I end up.
Originally Posted by gms
......OK. You will have to pay roaming data charges, but if it's that important to you I don't see it as being an issue.......
Originally Posted by Gaz
Having one done this (for 4 people) I would NOT recommend it. Vodafone's bargainious roaming data charges at the time (£8/mb) meant checking in for the flight cost me more than the ticket itself.
I'm just back from NYC & had my iPhone it's inaugural foreign trip. When I got home I had a message waiting from O2 about data roaming. Turns out, my very helpful & impressive iPhone just cost me Eur500.00 + VAT for a touch over 100Mb's of data in the States
iPhone stays at home from now on
But just to get back on topic here for a minute………
BA’s seating policy really used rile me up & I’ve written volumes on here about it. But TBH I don’t care much anymore. While I think it’s a totally stupid policy, I appreciate that it suits other passengers very well indeed & that’s great for them.
But it doesn’t suit me, as I really like to have my seat assignments set in advance, particularly having shelled out thousands on a premium cabin flight. So I’ve moved away from BA & travel with other carriers now. Somewhat of a loss for BA, but I’m quite sure they won’t go belly up, having lost my two or three CW round trips a year.
But as the old saying goes.... "Every cloud has a silver lining"
The flip side of the seating policy having driven me away from BA, is that it has opened up all sorts of new travel experiences for myself & “Mrs Kered” & only for it, we wouldn’t have experienced the joys of the LGW & LHR Virgin Clubhouses this year.
The way I look on it now, is that life is to short to get worked up about BA not allowing us choose our seats in advance. So we’re just getting on with our travels, enjoying the fresh experiences & counting our lucky stars that we are in the very privileged position to fly in premium cabins on our holidays ^
Last edited by kered; Oct 12, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Oct 12, 2008, 4:07 pm
#57
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold, UA Gold
Posts: 2,022
I don't know, the system could prob change in some way perhaps to help out non-Elites, perhaps a certain amount of assignable seats, but when they're gone, they're gone... leaving the rest for Silver/Golds booking late, and then T-24. But I would hate a pure 'first come first served' system where even elites booking late can't get a decent seat.
The E & F seats in CW on a 744 or 777 spring to mind
I'm just back from NYC & had my iPhone it's inaugural foreign trip. When I got home I had a message waiting from O2 about data roaming. Turns out, my very helpful & impressive iPhone just cost me Eur500.00 + VAT for a touch over 100Mb's of data in the States
BA’s seating policy really used rile me up & I’ve written volumes on here about it. But TBH I don’t care much anymore. While I think it’s a totally stupid policy, I appreciate that it suits other passengers very well indeed & that’s great for them.
But it doesn’t suit me, as I really like to have my seat assignments set in advance, particularly having shelled out thousands on a premium cabin flight. So I’ve moved away from BA & travel with other carriers now. Somewhat of a loss for BA, but I’m quite sure they won’t go belly up, having lost my two or three CW round trips a year.
But as the old saying goes.... "Every cloud has a silver lining"
The flip side of the seating policy having driven me away from BA, is that it has opened up all sorts of new travel experiences for myself & “Mrs Kered” & only for it, we wouldn’t have experienced the joys of the LGW & LHR Virgin Clubhouses this year.
The way I look on it now, is that life is to short to get worked up about BA not allowing us choose our seats in advance. So we’re just getting on with our travels, enjoying the fresh experiences & counting our lucky stars that we are in the very privileged position to fly in premium cabins on our holidays ^
But it doesn’t suit me, as I really like to have my seat assignments set in advance, particularly having shelled out thousands on a premium cabin flight. So I’ve moved away from BA & travel with other carriers now. Somewhat of a loss for BA, but I’m quite sure they won’t go belly up, having lost my two or three CW round trips a year.
But as the old saying goes.... "Every cloud has a silver lining"
The flip side of the seating policy having driven me away from BA, is that it has opened up all sorts of new travel experiences for myself & “Mrs Kered” & only for it, we wouldn’t have experienced the joys of the LGW & LHR Virgin Clubhouses this year.
The way I look on it now, is that life is to short to get worked up about BA not allowing us choose our seats in advance. So we’re just getting on with our travels, enjoying the fresh experiences & counting our lucky stars that we are in the very privileged position to fly in premium cabins on our holidays ^
Oct 12, 2008, 5:56 pm
#58
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lewes
Programs: HiltonH. Gold Starwood Gold BA BLUES! Mucci.
Posts: 4,833
Almost reluctant to mention it, but does anybody else here think that after W.W's comments about "added value," it is only a question of time before BA allow seat assignments, at least in Y, for a fee?
Oct 13, 2008, 12:17 am
#59
Join Date: Nov 2007
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 178
I find these threads somewhat amusing. All the talk about the reasoning behind the policy. Lets face it, each and every one of us wants the policy that suits our specific needs - we're all self-centred and selfish in this respect.
My travel patterns (I rarely need to change flights so its more economical for me to book non tier point flights) and the fact I run a small business that couldn't afford to book full fare flex as standard anyway, means that I am a lowly Blue. In saying that, I spend a fair amount of money on BA on business and holidays as well.
On my current holiday to Orlando I have been struggling to explain to my wife why when we have spent 7.5k on CW for us and 2 kids, we don't know where we will be sitting - in theory it could be apart from the kids. I know, I know, BA will do everything they can to ensure kids sit with parents but they certaily would not guarantee that.
As has been said previously in this thread, I could do without all the last minute seating hassle when on holiday with the family (on the business domestic flights I don't really care where I sit).
One thing I know is that our yearly CW holiday flights will probably move from BA from next year and I am more likely to tavel on business with other carriers more suited to my circumstances.
Its simple, I am not BAs target customer so they don't cater for me as much. The fact they will lose my business will, I'm sure, be built into their business plan.
So, me moving from BA is good for me and fits with the BA business plan which I'm sure has a built in non status passenger attrition rate.
I am not one of these 'I'll never travel with BA again'. I generally like BA and if my circumstances change or the BA policy changes then I would certainly start using them more.
My travel patterns (I rarely need to change flights so its more economical for me to book non tier point flights) and the fact I run a small business that couldn't afford to book full fare flex as standard anyway, means that I am a lowly Blue. In saying that, I spend a fair amount of money on BA on business and holidays as well.
On my current holiday to Orlando I have been struggling to explain to my wife why when we have spent 7.5k on CW for us and 2 kids, we don't know where we will be sitting - in theory it could be apart from the kids. I know, I know, BA will do everything they can to ensure kids sit with parents but they certaily would not guarantee that.
As has been said previously in this thread, I could do without all the last minute seating hassle when on holiday with the family (on the business domestic flights I don't really care where I sit).
One thing I know is that our yearly CW holiday flights will probably move from BA from next year and I am more likely to tavel on business with other carriers more suited to my circumstances.
Its simple, I am not BAs target customer so they don't cater for me as much. The fact they will lose my business will, I'm sure, be built into their business plan.
So, me moving from BA is good for me and fits with the BA business plan which I'm sure has a built in non status passenger attrition rate.
I am not one of these 'I'll never travel with BA again'. I generally like BA and if my circumstances change or the BA policy changes then I would certainly start using them more.
Oct 13, 2008, 2:12 am
#60
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Programs: BA
Posts: 2,368
On my current holiday to Orlando I have been struggling to explain to my wife why when we have spent 7.5k on CW for us and 2 kids, we don't know where we will be sitting - in theory it could be apart from the kids. I know, I know, BA will do everything they can to ensure kids sit with parents but they certaily would not guarantee that.
As has been said previously in this thread, I could do without all the last minute seating hassle when on holiday with the family (on the business domestic flights I don't really care where I sit).
As has been said previously in this thread, I could do without all the last minute seating hassle when on holiday with the family (on the business domestic flights I don't really care where I sit).
If you are traveling with children aged 2-11, then you can select your seat 3 days before travel
Take a look: http://www.britishairways.com/travel...y/public/en_gb