BA crew (including Captain) not enforcing face mask rules
Jan 5, 2021, 7:53 am
#61
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I personally think that if someone is exempt from wearing a mask, they should carry proof of this so that they can show it to anyone who challenges them about it.
so many people are getting away with saying they’re exempt and the staff can’t do anything about it. If someone says they’re exempt, there’s nothing else they can do really and it needs to change.
Masks are horrible to wear, but quite essential at these times.. especially when you’re in such close quarters like on an aircraft.
so many people are getting away with saying they’re exempt and the staff can’t do anything about it. If someone says they’re exempt, there’s nothing else they can do really and it needs to change.
Masks are horrible to wear, but quite essential at these times.. especially when you’re in such close quarters like on an aircraft.
Jan 5, 2021, 7:55 am
#62
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I hope you are aware that in the UK somebody who is exempt does not have to wear a face mask, nor do they have to disclose the reason why or show proof of their condition. Think twice before criticizing and name and shaming people not wearing them, you do not know their reasons as to why.
Three individuals in the same party of three with medical conditions? Plus one of them tying her luck making herself comfortable in 1A? Nonsense.
Last edited by 81romeo; Jan 5, 2021 at 8:01 am
Jan 5, 2021, 7:56 am
#63
Join Date: Apr 2005
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I personally think that if someone is exempt from wearing a mask, they should carry proof of this so that they can show it to anyone who challenges them about it.
so many people are getting away with saying they’re exempt and the staff can’t do anything about it. If someone says they’re exempt, there’s nothing else they can do really and it needs to change.
Masks are horrible to wear, but quite essential at these times.. especially when you’re in such close quarters like on an aircraft.
so many people are getting away with saying they’re exempt and the staff can’t do anything about it. If someone says they’re exempt, there’s nothing else they can do really and it needs to change.
Masks are horrible to wear, but quite essential at these times.. especially when you’re in such close quarters like on an aircraft.
Jan 5, 2021, 7:57 am
#64
Join Date: Nov 2018
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I'll save you the time....
Dear 81romeo,
We're sorry to hear you felt unsafe during your recent flight with is. We understand how frustrating this was, especially as you couldn't relax before your flight. This isn’t what you should expect of us, and we understand why you needed to complain.
Unfortunately, as a result of Covid-19, masks are compulsory onboard all our flights unless a passenger has a hidden disability. I'm sorry you weren't aware of this before you travelled.
I note you spoke with the Captain who reemphasised the point of our inflight lead. I know this wasn't the answer you were hoping for.
Once again, please accept our apologies for your experience on this trip. We hope to welcome you back on board soon. If I can help with anything else, please contact me directly using the blue link below.
Best regards
Person XYZ
Dear 81romeo,
We're sorry to hear you felt unsafe during your recent flight with is. We understand how frustrating this was, especially as you couldn't relax before your flight. This isn’t what you should expect of us, and we understand why you needed to complain.
Unfortunately, as a result of Covid-19, masks are compulsory onboard all our flights unless a passenger has a hidden disability. I'm sorry you weren't aware of this before you travelled.
I note you spoke with the Captain who reemphasised the point of our inflight lead. I know this wasn't the answer you were hoping for.
Once again, please accept our apologies for your experience on this trip. We hope to welcome you back on board soon. If I can help with anything else, please contact me directly using the blue link below.
Best regards
Person XYZ
Jan 5, 2021, 7:59 am
#65
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
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Well in a confined space with a stranger it is surely legitimate question to ask? Why....because a total stranger without a mask is a threat to others in the same close proximity. Why shouldn't someone ask another person, given HMG stipulations on wearing a mask?
Jan 5, 2021, 8:01 am
#66
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 346
Questions:
a) Why is BA not offloading pax who refuse to wear a mask. I couldn't care less about the impact on the passengers health, but I would care deeply about my health and those of other pasengers. Wearing a mask does not protect you, it protects others. BA have a duty of care and a duty to ensure compliance with the law. A month of offloading non-complying pax and the message would hit home!
b) Why were the Police not called? Quoting from the government's website "The police can take measures if members of the public do not comply with this law without a valid exemption and transport operators can deny access to their public transport services if a passenger is not wearing a face covering, or direct them to wear one or leave a service."
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...f%20%C2%A36400
c) would it be reasonable for a passenger to call the police (if an aircraft is on the ground) if the crew/captain fail to take action?
a) Why is BA not offloading pax who refuse to wear a mask. I couldn't care less about the impact on the passengers health, but I would care deeply about my health and those of other pasengers. Wearing a mask does not protect you, it protects others. BA have a duty of care and a duty to ensure compliance with the law. A month of offloading non-complying pax and the message would hit home!
b) Why were the Police not called? Quoting from the government's website "The police can take measures if members of the public do not comply with this law without a valid exemption and transport operators can deny access to their public transport services if a passenger is not wearing a face covering, or direct them to wear one or leave a service."
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...f%20%C2%A36400
c) would it be reasonable for a passenger to call the police (if an aircraft is on the ground) if the crew/captain fail to take action?
Government and some operators have produced cards and badges which you can choose to wear to show you are exempt. There is no requirement to do this though, and if you rely on an exemption, transport staff should not ordinarily ask for evidence.
So as per BA policy if someone says they are exempt then that's as far as it can go, the crew cannot ask for proof, and would be wrong to offload This is different from someone being disruptive.
Personal experience when I challenge someone as crew they are suddenly exempt for health reasons even though they might have got through the terminal and on to the aircraft with a mask. Then it's stale mate.
Re: bans/ cancelling return flights etc this can happen and forms part of the warning letter potential outcomes but still cannot offload unless passenger became disruptive (thus then becomes a separate issue) . Incident form would be completed for mask compliabce and further investigation taken before course of action is taken in case the person is really exempt.
As said before a lot of crew are not happy with how relaxed the policy is but I suppose if government guidance is that transport workers should not ask for reasons, many passengers are aware of this too.
Jan 5, 2021, 8:07 am
#67
Join Date: May 2012
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The most common reason for someone claiming exemption from mask-wearing is breathing-related conditions.
In that case, they can wear a mask on their mouth (but not nose) and a face shield on top. This is what a fellow passenger on an AA LAX-PHL has worn, and I felt fully comfortable around him.
Most of the times, it is middle aged fit men who appear without face masks. Maybe they do have a genuine breathing condition, in which case they are welcome to follow my suggestion above.
In that case, they can wear a mask on their mouth (but not nose) and a face shield on top. This is what a fellow passenger on an AA LAX-PHL has worn, and I felt fully comfortable around him.
Most of the times, it is middle aged fit men who appear without face masks. Maybe they do have a genuine breathing condition, in which case they are welcome to follow my suggestion above.
Jan 5, 2021, 8:09 am
#68
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: London / Brighton
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I hope you are aware that in the UK somebody who is exempt does not have to wear a face mask, nor do they have to disclose the reason why or show proof of their condition. Think twice before criticizing and name and shaming people not wearing them, you do not know their reasons as to why.
HMG says:
However, some people may feel more comfortable showing something that says they do not have to wear a face covering. This could be in the form of an exemption card, badge or even a home-made sign.
So, the bottom line is that if you are going to travel ex-UK then you need to be prepared for this situation. Not sure what BA could have enforced here under the law but happy to have it pointed out for clarity.
Exemption cards
If you have an age, health or disability reason for not wearing a face covering:- you do not routinely need to show any written evidence of this
- you do not need show an exemption card
However, some people may feel more comfortable showing something that says they do not have to wear a face covering. This could be in the form of an exemption card, badge or even a home-made sign.
So, the bottom line is that if you are going to travel ex-UK then you need to be prepared for this situation. Not sure what BA could have enforced here under the law but happy to have it pointed out for clarity.
Jan 5, 2021, 8:13 am
#69
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I've explained HMG's stance above. I'm sorry if it is not the answer you want.
Jan 5, 2021, 8:14 am
#70
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As far as I’m concerned if someone boards wearing a mask they are not exempt and should wear it properly if they refuse they are being disruptive and would be treated as so.
I am hearing so much about cabin crew about not being effective, is it because they do not have enough training and experience?
I am hearing so much about cabin crew about not being effective, is it because they do not have enough training and experience?
Last edited by Can I help you; Jan 5, 2021 at 8:40 am
Jan 5, 2021, 8:22 am
#71
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 579
And this is the guidance from government re what transport workers can or cannot do if someone claims to be exempt:
Government and some operators have produced cards and badges which you can choose to wear to show you are exempt. There is no requirement to do this though, and if you rely on an exemption, transport staff should not ordinarily ask for evidence.
So as per BA policy if someone says they are exempt then that's as far as it can go, the crew cannot ask for proof, and would be wrong to offload This is different from someone being disruptive.
Personal experience when I challenge someone as crew they are suddenly exempt for health reasons even though they might have got through the terminal and on to the aircraft with a mask. Then it's stale mate.
Re: bans/ cancelling return flights etc this can happen and forms part of the warning letter potential outcomes but still cannot offload unless passenger became disruptive (thus then becomes a separate issue) . Incident form would be completed for mask compliabce and further investigation taken before course of action is taken in case the person is really exempt.
As said before a lot of crew are not happy with how relaxed the policy is but I suppose if government guidance is that transport workers should not ask for reasons, many passengers are aware of this too.
Government and some operators have produced cards and badges which you can choose to wear to show you are exempt. There is no requirement to do this though, and if you rely on an exemption, transport staff should not ordinarily ask for evidence.
So as per BA policy if someone says they are exempt then that's as far as it can go, the crew cannot ask for proof, and would be wrong to offload This is different from someone being disruptive.
Personal experience when I challenge someone as crew they are suddenly exempt for health reasons even though they might have got through the terminal and on to the aircraft with a mask. Then it's stale mate.
Re: bans/ cancelling return flights etc this can happen and forms part of the warning letter potential outcomes but still cannot offload unless passenger became disruptive (thus then becomes a separate issue) . Incident form would be completed for mask compliabce and further investigation taken before course of action is taken in case the person is really exempt.
As said before a lot of crew are not happy with how relaxed the policy is but I suppose if government guidance is that transport workers should not ask for reasons, many passengers are aware of this too.
Jan 5, 2021, 8:26 am
#72
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: LHR, LGW
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Posts: 3,444
I do find the ‘exempt’ conservation an interesting juxtaposition.
Did one become exempt because in the last global pandemic wearing a mask caused them a problem?!
Oh wait we haven’t had a global pandemic on any such scale since the Spanish flu and most were not even a twinkle in someone’s eye. Ok, ok! I’m being facetious!
Now I fully understand some are genuinely exempt but I do think that the genuine amongst us are sadly discredited by a lot of people who abuse the legitimacy of such situations. Why? I do not know. Misinformation? Selfishness? Lack of respect? It’s a human behaviour conundrum.
Here in the U.K. another such issue is abused by people, blue badges for parking. Blue badges are for disabled people who genuinely need to park closer to or have some space to operate themselves. But people sadly abuse these badges and avoid having to adhere to the conformities that the majority endure. Not paying for parking I assume is the main scam there! It’s selfish and sad for the people who genuinely need to park in a disabled spot.
I’d like to understand the benefit of not wearing a mask whilst most others are? Does one feel better about ones self? More important? I refer to the non-genuine types!
I’m going off topic slightly but mask wearing for this very brief period in our lifetime should be treated seriously and with the greatest respect to our society as a whole. If you pop in to a supermarket for 10 mins, wear a mask, think of the staff who have to wear them for 40 hours a week! Same with crew. The least you can do is a few minutes or hours. Rant over.
Anyhow back on topic and as a data point crews on my only return flight so far since Covid hit, were excellent at communicating and enforcing said masks amongst their usual duties, even waking a passenger up to tell them to don their mask correctly.
Did one become exempt because in the last global pandemic wearing a mask caused them a problem?!
Oh wait we haven’t had a global pandemic on any such scale since the Spanish flu and most were not even a twinkle in someone’s eye. Ok, ok! I’m being facetious!
Now I fully understand some are genuinely exempt but I do think that the genuine amongst us are sadly discredited by a lot of people who abuse the legitimacy of such situations. Why? I do not know. Misinformation? Selfishness? Lack of respect? It’s a human behaviour conundrum.
Here in the U.K. another such issue is abused by people, blue badges for parking. Blue badges are for disabled people who genuinely need to park closer to or have some space to operate themselves. But people sadly abuse these badges and avoid having to adhere to the conformities that the majority endure. Not paying for parking I assume is the main scam there! It’s selfish and sad for the people who genuinely need to park in a disabled spot.
I’d like to understand the benefit of not wearing a mask whilst most others are? Does one feel better about ones self? More important? I refer to the non-genuine types!
I’m going off topic slightly but mask wearing for this very brief period in our lifetime should be treated seriously and with the greatest respect to our society as a whole. If you pop in to a supermarket for 10 mins, wear a mask, think of the staff who have to wear them for 40 hours a week! Same with crew. The least you can do is a few minutes or hours. Rant over.
Anyhow back on topic and as a data point crews on my only return flight so far since Covid hit, were excellent at communicating and enforcing said masks amongst their usual duties, even waking a passenger up to tell them to don their mask correctly.
Jan 5, 2021, 8:28 am
#73
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
On arrival at CDG from CUN the other week, as we were all standing around waiting for the doors to open, one of the pilots came marching down the aisle and then kissed one of several upgraded cockpit honeys on the mouth.
Did I get upset? Nah. I found it quite amusing, and admired their temerity. It's also always nice to see that total corona paranoia has not yet afflicted everyone.
Johan
Did I get upset? Nah. I found it quite amusing, and admired their temerity. It's also always nice to see that total corona paranoia has not yet afflicted everyone.
Johan
Jan 5, 2021, 8:28 am
#74
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 836
You're overreacting. Relax and live life. Quit demonizing the non-mask wearing folks. You don't know their situation. They may have already had it (like me) and now have immunity for a while. If you are TRULY at risk, don't fly or leave your home. The rest of us want to go back to normal and know that statistically, it isn't going to come close to killing you. Plus, air circulation on a plane is top notch with HEPA filters -- believe the science.
Jan 5, 2021, 8:30 am
#75
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: London / Brighton
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