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Old Dec 4, 2020, 5:23 am
  #151  
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Originally Posted by Howard Long
Indeed, the original check in agent had already spoken to me while I was waiting that she was going off to the gate and they'd try to get me on the next flight: I was about to get up and mention to her that I was 5 minutes away from T5 security compliance limit. About fifteen minutes later, her colleague gave me the news I was, by this time, half expecting. So yes, too late for any voucher, but I wouldn't have known that anyway. As mentioned I asked him to make notes on the booking addressing the situation, and I walked over to a BA rep to ask them to do a similar thing. Not that it made any difference.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I read through Qatar Airways Conditions of Carriage as I enjoyed my coffee this morning. What is interesting is the CoC does not appear to contain any clause(s) stipulating an obligation to formally "land" or to use more precise wording, present oneself at border control at the destination airport.

ARTICLE 14: ADMINISTRATIVE FORMALITIES

1. General
You are solely responsible for complying with all laws, regulations, orders, demands and travel requirements of countries to be flown from, into or over, and with our regulations and instructions. We shall not be liable for any aid or information given by our agents or employee to you in connection with obtaining necessary documents or visas or complying with such laws, regulations, orders, demands and requirements, whether given in writing or otherwise; or for the consequences to you resulting from your failure to obtain such documents or visas or to comply with such laws, regulations, orders, demands, requirements.

2. Travel Documents
Prior to travel you are required to present all exit, entry, health and other documents required by laws, regulations, orders, demands and requirements of the countries concerned and permit us to take and retain copies thereof. We reserve the right to refuse your carriage if you have not complied with applicable laws, regulations, orders, demands and requirements or your documents do not appear to be in order, or if you do not permit us to take and retain copies thereof.

3. Refusal of Entry
You agree to pay the applicable fare whenever we, on government order, are required to take you to your point of origin or elsewhere, owing to your inadmissibility into a country, whether of transit or of destination. We may apply to the payment of such fare any funds paid to us for unused Carriage, or any of your funds in our possession. We will not refund the fare collected for carriage to the point of refusal of entry or deportation.

4. Passenger Responsible for Fines, Detention Costs
If we are required to pay or deposit any fine or penalty or incur any expenditure by reason of your failure to comply with laws, regulations, orders, demands and requirements of the countries concerned or to produce the required documents, you will on demand reimburse to us, any amount so paid or deposited and any expenditure so incurred. We may use towards such expenditure any funds paid to us for unused carriage, or any of your funds in our possession

5. Customs Inspection
If required, you will attend inspection of your Checked Baggage or Unchecked Baggage by customs or other government officials. We are not liable to you for any loss or damage suffered by you through failure to comply with this requirement.

6. Security Inspection
You are required to submit to any security checks by government or airport officials or by us.
Article 14 should be read in conjunction with Article 7, Article 8.1, and Article 8.3

ARTICLE 7 - CHECK IN

You must arrive at our check-in location and boarding gate sufficiently in advance of flight departure to permit completion of any government formalities and departure procedures and in any event not later than the time that we have indicated. If you fail to arrive in time at our check-in location or boarding gate or appear improperly documented and not ready or fit to travel, we may cancel the space reserved for you and will not delay the flight. We are not liable to you for loss or expense due to your failure to comply with the provision of this article.

For Tickets purchased through Qatar Airways website or contact centres, we may require you to present the credit card used to purchase the Ticket at the time of airport check-in.
ARTICLE 8 - REFUSAL OF AND LIMITATION ON CARRIAGE

1. Right to Refuse Carriage

We may refuse carriage of a Passenger or a Passenger’s Baggage for reasons of safety or if, in the exercise of our reasonable discretion, we determine that:

1.1 Such action is necessary in order to comply with any applicable law, regulations or orders of any state or country to be flown, from, into or over; or

1.2 Your conduct, age or mental or physical state, including your impairment from alcohol or drugs is such as to:

(A) Require special assistance from us; or

(B) Cause discomfort or make yourself objectionable to other passengers; or

(C) Involve any hazard or risk to yourself or to other persons or to property; or

1.3 Such action is necessary because you have failed to observe our instructions; or

1.4 You have refused to submit to a security check; or

1.5 The applicable fare or any charges or taxes payable have not been paid, or credit arrangements agreed between us and you (or the person paying for the Ticket) have not been complied with; or

1.6 You do not appear to be properly documented;

1.7 You may seek to enter a country through which you are in transit; or

1.8 You may destroy or otherwise dispose of your documentation during flight; or

1.9 You will not surrender a travel document to be held by the flight crew against receipt, when so requested by us; or

1.10 The Ticket presented by you:

(A) Has been acquired unlawfully or has been purchased from an entity other than the issuing Carrier or its authorized agent; or

(B) Has been reported as being lost or stolen; or

(C) Is a counterfeit Ticket; or

(D) Any Flight Coupon has been altered by anyone other than us or another Carrier or our respective authorized agents, or has been mutilated and we reserve the right to retain such Ticket; or

1.11 As the person presenting the Ticket you cannot prove that you are the person named in the “NAME OF PASSENGER” box in the Ticket and we reserve the right to retain such Ticket.


3. Refusal to Carry or Removal of Passenger
We may, in our reasonable discretion, refuse to carry you, or remove you en route, due to your conduct, behaviour, physical or mental condition. In such a case, we may cancel the remaining unused portion of the Ticket, and you will not be entitled to further carriage or to a refund, either in respect of the sector, which was the subject of refusal of carriage or removal, or in respect of any subsequent sectors covered by the Ticket. We will not be liable for any consequential loss or damage alleged due to any such refusal of carriage or removal en route. We reserve the right to claim from you all reasonable costs of such removal as referred to in Article 12-2.
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Old Dec 4, 2020, 10:21 am
  #152  
 
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Originally Posted by Prospero
What is interesting is the CoC does not appear to contain any clause(s) stipulating an obligation to formally "land" or to use more precise wording, present oneself at border control at the destination airport.
I imagine the lawyers who drafted those clauses never contemplated that someone would fly to a destination they are ticketed for and not wish to enter the country; but rather remain in limbo in some sort of "no man's land". Doing what the OP contemplated is rather airport specific, as in many places you cannot remain airside without going through border control upon arrival from an international origin.
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Old Dec 4, 2020, 10:48 am
  #153  
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Originally Posted by Jagboi
I imagine the lawyers who drafted those clauses never contemplated that someone would fly to a destination they are ticketed for and not wish to enter the country; but rather remain in limbo in some sort of "no man's land". Doing what the OP contemplated is rather airport specific, as in many places you cannot remain airside without going through border control upon arrival from an international origin.
You are very possibly correct there, but then the CoC does contain several obscure clauses, such as a no show charge and conditions on the utilisation of empty seats, so why not an obligation to present oneself at Border Control?

I am sure QR were pleased last year when Forbes included DOH in its nominated list of airports that are destinations in and of themselves
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Old Dec 4, 2020, 11:31 am
  #154  
 
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Originally Posted by Prospero
You are very possibly correct there, but then the CoC does contain several obscure clauses, such as a no show charge and conditions on the utilisation of empty seats, so why not an obligation to present oneself at Border Control?

I am sure QR were pleased last year when Forbes included DOH in its nominated list of airports that are destinations in and of themselves
I guess one could reasonably argue that OP had all the necessary documents to enter the airport which was his final destination.

It would make an interesting court case: “Your honour, I never intended to enter the country, I simply wanted to visit the airport as I am an oversized-teddy-bear-statue enthusiast”.
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Old Dec 4, 2020, 11:33 am
  #155  
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Originally Posted by Prospero
I read through Qatar Airways Conditions of Carriage as I enjoyed my coffee this morning. What is interesting is the CoC does not appear to contain any clause(s) stipulating an obligation to formally "land" or to use more precise wording, present oneself at border control at the destination airport.



Article 14 should be read in conjunction with Article 7, Article 8.1, and Article 8.3
It does state

1.6 You do not appear to be properly documented;

Not having the documents required to be able to enter the destination country, would seem to come under this
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Old Dec 4, 2020, 11:40 am
  #156  
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
It does state

1.6 You do not appear to be properly documented;

Not having the documents required to be able to enter the destination country, would seem to come under this
The clause doesn’t give specifics though. My thoughts are Howard Long did have the correct documentation for the purpose of his trip, unless there is something else I am missing
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Old Dec 4, 2020, 11:45 am
  #157  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
It does state

1.6 You do not appear to be properly documented;

Not having the documents required to be able to enter the destination country, would seem to come under this
I think it hinges on the general understanding that people fly to airports and then actually immigrate into the country. Hence the comments about the lack of a rule that requires you to present yourself to immigration. OP was properly documented to visit Doha airport.
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Old Dec 4, 2020, 11:46 am
  #158  
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Originally Posted by Prospero
The clause doesn’t give specifics though. My thoughts are Howard Long did have the correct documentation for the purpose of his trip, unless there is something else I am missing
You are missing thr fact that Qatar does not allow almost all foreigners to enter.
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Old Dec 4, 2020, 11:49 am
  #159  
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Originally Posted by Prospero
The clause doesn’t give specifics though. My thoughts are Howard Long did have the correct documentation for the purpose of his trip, unless there is something else I am missing
He didn't have a residents permit, which presumably made him fall foul of 14.2 - not having the necessary entry / exit documents. The OP didn't intend to enter Qatar, but his ticket suggested that was his intent. I personally think QR are well positioned, should it ever get to court.
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Last edited by corporate-wage-slave; Dec 4, 2020 at 11:56 am
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Old Dec 4, 2020, 11:53 am
  #160  
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Originally Posted by garykung
You are missing thr fact that Qatar does not all any foreigners to enter.
Not at all. As far as I understand and Howard Long made the point very clear, there never was an intention to enter the country. Remember DOH airport is perfectly equipped to allow passengers get off one aircraft and board another without entering the country. If this is prohibited as a B2B, where can I find the governing policy or rules?
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Old Dec 4, 2020, 12:01 pm
  #161  
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Originally Posted by Prospero
Not at all. As far as I understand and Howard Long made the point very clear, there never was an intention to enter the country. Remember DOH airport is perfectly equipped to allow passengers get off one aircraft and board another without entering the country. If this is prohibited as a B2B, where can I find the governing policy or rules?
Doha was the destination of the journey
A passenger is required to have documentation to allow access to the destination country
B2B is nnot a thing, other than on sites like FT, so no reason for it to be listed

Just checking the visa requirements given from the Qatar site ( from I assume timatic ) it states for visa exemption for Qatar

Originally Posted by QR

TWOV (Transit Without Visa):
Passengers with a confirmed onward ticket for a flight to a third country within 24 hours. They must stay in the international transit area of the airport and have documents required for the next destination.
Travelling from LHR-DOH-LHR is not a journey to a 3rd country and so the visa exemption does not apply

Last edited by Dave Noble; Dec 4, 2020 at 12:07 pm
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Old Dec 4, 2020, 12:06 pm
  #162  
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Originally Posted by Prospero
As far as I understand and Howard Long made the point very clear, there never was an intention to enter the country.
We are going back to the same catfight again.

Despite the airside hotel booking, his final destination on the ticket was indeed DOH. So QR has a legitimate reason to believe he may have an intent to enter Qatar. Okay - let's say OP intends to transit (presume allowed). But OP does not have another ticket or BP for transit. Viewing this in the most favorable to OP, it is just every possible avenue will still has something questionable that is sufficient enough for QR to IDB.

QR, likes other airlines, has full discretion to transport. So back to the sympathy - the sympathy OP really needed was from QR, not us here. And if QR was willing to give that to OP, this thread would not exist from the beginning.
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Old Dec 4, 2020, 12:08 pm
  #163  
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Originally Posted by garykung

QR, likes other airlines, has full discretion to transport. So back to the sympathy - the sympathy OP really needed was from QR, not us here. And if QR was willing to give that to OP, this thread would not exist from the beginning.
Looking at the visa exemption requirements for Qatar, I don't think it did have discretion to transport
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Old Dec 4, 2020, 12:24 pm
  #164  
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
Looking at the visa exemption requirements for Qatar, I don't think it did have discretion to transport
Let's just QR has the discretion for the benefit of OP.
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Old Dec 4, 2020, 1:55 pm
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‘Custom and practice’ also has a (legal) role to play here. The definition of ‘transit’ is accepted by the airline and airport industries as being to a country other than the one someone departed from, so any transit exemption would not apply. We’ve seen it in the thread on DME, and we’re seeing it here. I think the OP was unlucky but the airline ultimately was correct in its actions.
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