CSM attitude to 'self upgraders'
Jan 27, 2020, 2:16 pm
#106
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: London
Programs: BAEC Silver; Virgin Flying Club Red; IHG Spire
Posts: 65
I'm just returning to this thread after a day of meetings...
A few observations / replies:
1.
I didn't ever engage with the person involved. The CSM after I spoke with her spoke to the passenger behind me and then updated me with his response (!)
2.
If there was a change in aircraft, it was to an identical configuration as the number of seats in each class remained the same (except potentially for all I know in F). The lady in the couple (with the PE reservation) made it clear that she'd tried to get an upgrade for the husband but couldn't - I don't believe they were ever split up but most likely on different tickets.
3.
He self-upgraded after the meal and remained there for the rest of flight including landing.
4.
This is the reason why I brought it up with the CSM in the first place - the passenger used my seat to pull himself in / out (disturbing me) and before sitting, had a long conversation with his wife standing effectively over me, with his arm on the top of my seat. The CSM told me that I should 'feel free to recline my seat as I liked...'
A few observations / replies:
1.
Why is a passenger involved in this? Reporting apparent seating problems to the crew and then talking to the person actually involved?
2.
there was a change in aircraft. is this part of the reason the couple were split Up?
3.
did he benefit from any higher class of meal or drinks? did he return to his allocated seat for landing?
4.
Unless this passenger was disturbing you in some way, isn't this clearly in the MYOB realm? Seriously...
Jan 27, 2020, 2:52 pm
#107
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: DUB/ORD/SIN/PVG
Programs: EI AerClub Concierge, EK Gold, BA Gold, BD Gold (Retired), HHonors Diamond, Bonvoy Lifetime Gold
Posts: 2,923
I do find this discussion turning rather distasteful. I find that I am now defending what I call reasonable behaviour and arguing against criminal behaviour with people that seem to think it OK to steal services they haven't paid for. So I am now out of this discussion. I have made my point though and I value the chance to discuss it 
The way AA CC log the Bose headphones from BusinessFirst back into a locked cart approx 50 mins before landing feels like an episode of Porridge. Presumably it really is necessary to avoid losses. God help you if you are logged as having received a pair at the beginning of the flight in error...
Jan 27, 2020, 7:14 pm
#108
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,596
I'm not sure BA's flakey technology is up to the job of seeing this one through however. Having purchased £200 worth of highlife shop items last year on a flight to Antigua where the transaction went through just fine, it wasn't until arriving at our hotel that I realised I'd handed over a voided card on board and received a text from my card issuer to say someone was trying to use my old card. They weren't prepared to approve the transaction either even though I'd explained the situation was my error. Obviously once I had contacted BA Highlife Shop to explain, they were only too happy to retake the payment, however I wonder how many people in that situation would have done the same?
Jan 27, 2020, 8:42 pm
#109
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Dubai
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 396
but that’s key is nt it.
In one form or another they WILL disturb - like take an an unplanned share of the F&B for that cabin, for example, especially where catering is tight.
ignoring it only encourages the perpetrator to try again.
Next up you’ll find the same person in your paid for seat, arguing for you to sit elsewhere as it is easier for them.
Personally, have encountered this after being one of the last to board to find someone else (trying it on from traveller) in 62K in Club at JFK - at which point they’ve opened the blankets and got their grime over the pillow etc - ie disturbance.
In one form or another they WILL disturb - like take an an unplanned share of the F&B for that cabin, for example, especially where catering is tight.
ignoring it only encourages the perpetrator to try again.
Next up you’ll find the same person in your paid for seat, arguing for you to sit elsewhere as it is easier for them.
Personally, have encountered this after being one of the last to board to find someone else (trying it on from traveller) in 62K in Club at JFK - at which point they’ve opened the blankets and got their grime over the pillow etc - ie disturbance.
Jan 27, 2020, 9:03 pm
#110
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 58
I witnessed a mass self upgrade on a Lufthansa flight from Frankfurt to Jeddah last Nov. I was sat in the last economy row (window seat with an empty seat next to me) behind premium economy. Just as the plane started to move from the gate, a pilgrim decided to self upgrade from the economy seats behind me and into Premium Economy. He then pulled out his phone and called his fellow pilgrims further back in Economy, who all suddenly appeared and took seats in Premium Economy. About 5 minutes later, an FA appeared and said "either you all move back to your original seats or you pay the extra to sit in these seats...", they all opted to high tail it back into Economy. Bloomin' cheek!
Jan 28, 2020, 2:12 am
#111
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sapporo, Japan
Programs: Junior Jet Club, Nando's Card 1 Red Chilli, Tesco Clubcard, BAEC Gold, TK M&S Elite
Posts: 520
Thread has landed in the blogs
https://thegate.boardingarea.com/sel...edium=facebook
https://thegate.boardingarea.com/sel...edium=facebook
Jan 28, 2020, 2:32 am
#112
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 18,620
Jan 28, 2020, 4:33 am
#113
Join Date: Aug 2015
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 236
Sat in WT+ this morning on BA165 and along comes a lady who sits in the row behind me, immediately summons the crew and says 'my husband tried to upgrade but was told there were no seats - the row is empty, can he sit here?' Crew said they'd ask the 'manager' and get back to her.
Halfway through the flight, husband appears and plonks himself next to his wife. When I saw the CSM walking through the cabin later, I mentioned that there was someone sat in the seat behind me who wasn't there when we took off. She said something about it being too much hassle to deal with, at which point I said I'd love to sit in Club or First if there were free seats but recognise that I obviously had to sit where I paid. She agreed with me on the principle (asking me if I'd like to sit in the cockpit!), but did absolutely nothing to send the man back to his paid for seat. Then spoke to the man, who tells her that 'a member of crew said I could sit here' and decided to leave him alone - isn't the CSM meant to be the person in charge on board in these situations?
Halfway through the flight, husband appears and plonks himself next to his wife. When I saw the CSM walking through the cabin later, I mentioned that there was someone sat in the seat behind me who wasn't there when we took off. She said something about it being too much hassle to deal with, at which point I said I'd love to sit in Club or First if there were free seats but recognise that I obviously had to sit where I paid. She agreed with me on the principle (asking me if I'd like to sit in the cockpit!), but did absolutely nothing to send the man back to his paid for seat. Then spoke to the man, who tells her that 'a member of crew said I could sit here' and decided to leave him alone - isn't the CSM meant to be the person in charge on board in these situations?
- Passenger asked to upgrade to be with companion but was told no despite apparently space being available.
- Passenger talked to crew in aircraft, explained the above, asked if they could sit with companion and were told a manager would be asked. So they weren't sneaky about it, they actually attempted to do this the proper way.
- Passenger upgraded himself halfway through the flight. Because the manager or crew never got back to him? Because another crew genuinely told him he could?
- If the OP's chronology is accurate the CSM talked to him/her about the situation being too much hassle before she even talked to the offender, who only then mentioned being allowed to upgrade by another crew. The latter would have been easily cross checked by the CSM, maybe she did and he was correct and that's why she left him alone. Having gone through the trouble of talking to the crew it doesn't seem likely that the couple would simply have ignored the answer if the crew or manager had refused. But maybe they did...
In any case this is hardly a case of a chancer upgrading themselves on the sly at the first opportunity and trying to get away with it. So while I really do sympathise with people getting upset at someone trying to deliberately take advantage, I don't see that this is definitively the case here. But definitely a case of MYOB. If the OP overheard the conversation about the previous upgrade attempt and the request to the crew, why assume that the passenger upgrading themselves did it without approval and why report them? Firstly it shows a sad lack of sympathy for a couple of people trying to sit together (one might need WT+ for mobility reason and with lack of WT+ availability they may have chosen to be initially split in the hope to be reunited via a paid for upgrade at a later stage). Secondly it's substituting yourself for the crew without knowing all the facts, otherwise known as being a busy body.
Jan 28, 2020, 3:19 pm
#114
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near TEB and KLX
Posts: 76
So:
In any case this is hardly a case of a chancer upgrading themselves on the sly at the first opportunity and trying to get away with it. So while I really do sympathise with people getting upset at someone trying to deliberately take advantage, I don't see that this is definitively the case here. But definitely a case of MYOB. If the OP overheard the conversation about the previous upgrade attempt and the request to the crew, why assume that the passenger upgrading themselves did it without approval and why report them? Firstly it shows a sad lack of sympathy for a couple of people trying to sit together (one might need WT+ for mobility reason and with lack of WT+ availability they may have chosen to be initially split in the hope to be reunited via a paid for upgrade at a later stage). Secondly it's substituting yourself for the crew without knowing all the facts, otherwise known as being a busy body.
- Passenger asked to upgrade to be with companion but was told no despite apparently space being available.
- Passenger talked to crew in aircraft, explained the above, asked if they could sit with companion and were told a manager would be asked. So they weren't sneaky about it, they actually attempted to do this the proper way.
- Passenger upgraded himself halfway through the flight. Because the manager or crew never got back to him? Because another crew genuinely told him he could?
- If the OP's chronology is accurate the CSM talked to him/her about the situation being too much hassle before she even talked to the offender, who only then mentioned being allowed to upgrade by another crew. The latter would have been easily cross checked by the CSM, maybe she did and he was correct and that's why she left him alone. Having gone through the trouble of talking to the crew it doesn't seem likely that the couple would simply have ignored the answer if the crew or manager had refused. But maybe they did...
In any case this is hardly a case of a chancer upgrading themselves on the sly at the first opportunity and trying to get away with it. So while I really do sympathise with people getting upset at someone trying to deliberately take advantage, I don't see that this is definitively the case here. But definitely a case of MYOB. If the OP overheard the conversation about the previous upgrade attempt and the request to the crew, why assume that the passenger upgrading themselves did it without approval and why report them? Firstly it shows a sad lack of sympathy for a couple of people trying to sit together (one might need WT+ for mobility reason and with lack of WT+ availability they may have chosen to be initially split in the hope to be reunited via a paid for upgrade at a later stage). Secondly it's substituting yourself for the crew without knowing all the facts, otherwise known as being a busy body.
Finally, a poster who makes sense in this thread!!!
Unless the upgrader came over and sat next to you or on your lap, show some sympathy/empathy, sit back, relax, sip on your beverage, enjoy your meal, see the in-flight movie, and ENJOY your flight.
Life is just too short to be bothered with these kind of distractions, moreover getting so upset/bothered to come to a forum and vent is a bit over the top in my humble opinion!!!
As far as the "theft of service" is concerned, after the plane takes off the economic value of ANY empty seat is ZERO, and if the "upgrader" took advantage of the upgraded meal/drink that's between him and the crew. If he does not take advantage of these, as this person did not, there is no theft of service, the seat he sat on had the economic value of zero.
Also, it must be kept in mind that an airplane crew is not only servants and flight safety officers but constitute a VERY important part of an airline's public relations department.
For instance, the cost of the upgraded meal/beverage is definitely NOT worth alienating and losing passengers. Most flight crews will use their discretion on a case by case basis as they should, and as apparently was the case here with this crew .
Chill folks, just chill!!!
Last edited by jimbous; Jan 28, 2020 at 4:04 pm
Jan 28, 2020, 3:58 pm
#115
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,833
As far as the "theft of service" is concerned, after the plane takes off the economic value of ANY empty seat is ZERO, and if the "upgrader" took advantage of the upgraded meal/drink that's between him and the crew. If he does not take advantage of these, as this person did not, there is no theft of service, the seat he sat on had the economic value of zero.
Jan 28, 2020, 4:13 pm
#116
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near TEB and KLX
Posts: 76
Read one of the posts here:
https://thegate.boardingarea.com/sel...edium=facebook
"On another flight, a group of five brazenly strolled in to together to the Premium Economy cabin and sat down in the empty seats. After some debate, the crew allowed them to stay BUT they were only given the economy meals…as if that was a punishment?"
It's called crew DISCRETION!!!
Just as one can get a complimentary upgrade by the ground crew before boarding, one can also get a complimentary upgrade by the flight crew in mid-air!!!
Just as the main class passenger has no expectation that he'll be upgraded to a premium class, so the premium class passenger has no expectation that all seats around him will be empty! The ground and flight crews can and do fill those seats as they deem appropriate.
https://thegate.boardingarea.com/sel...edium=facebook
"On another flight, a group of five brazenly strolled in to together to the Premium Economy cabin and sat down in the empty seats. After some debate, the crew allowed them to stay BUT they were only given the economy meals…as if that was a punishment?"
It's called crew DISCRETION!!!
Just as one can get a complimentary upgrade by the ground crew before boarding, one can also get a complimentary upgrade by the flight crew in mid-air!!!
Just as the main class passenger has no expectation that he'll be upgraded to a premium class, so the premium class passenger has no expectation that all seats around him will be empty! The ground and flight crews can and do fill those seats as they deem appropriate.
Last edited by jimbous; Jan 28, 2020 at 4:26 pm
Jan 28, 2020, 4:20 pm
#117
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sapporo, Japan
Programs: Junior Jet Club, Nando's Card 1 Red Chilli, Tesco Clubcard, BAEC Gold, TK M&S Elite
Posts: 520
Jan 28, 2020, 4:44 pm
#119
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near TEB and KLX
Posts: 76
But I would never bother with such petty non-sense.
Jan 28, 2020, 5:31 pm
#120
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Glasgow, UK
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 635
As far as the "theft of service" is concerned, after the plane takes off the economic value of ANY empty seat is ZERO, and if the "upgrader" took advantage of the upgraded meal/drink that's between him and the crew. If he does not take advantage of these, as this person did not, there is no theft of service, the seat he sat on had the economic value of zero.
Also, it must be kept in mind that an airplane crew is not only servants and flight safety officers but constitute a VERY important part of an airline's public relations department.
For instance, the cost of the upgraded meal/beverage is definitely NOT worth alienating and losing passengers. Most flight crews will use their discretion on a case by case basis as they should, and as apparently was the case here with this crew .
Chill folks, just chill!!!
Also, it must be kept in mind that an airplane crew is not only servants and flight safety officers but constitute a VERY important part of an airline's public relations department.
For instance, the cost of the upgraded meal/beverage is definitely NOT worth alienating and losing passengers. Most flight crews will use their discretion on a case by case basis as they should, and as apparently was the case here with this crew .
Chill folks, just chill!!!
By this logic, there should be no issue with me waiting for the meal service to finish, then finding a nice spare J or F seat to settle in to for the rest of the flight. I mean, the seat has no more economic value so why not?
Who fancies my chances? What if I tell the crew that someone on the internet said it was ok, and they’re part of the airlines PR department and it’s not worth alienating me
