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The 2020 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

Old Jan 1, 20, 3:30 am
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The Air Passenger Rights and Air Travel Organisers Licensing (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format

Downgrades: Mennens case - calculation formula is in this post
787 cancellations due to Trent engine issues - CEDR ruling information from the post in the 2018 thread and onwards.

For the 2019 thread:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/1948451-2019-ba-compensation-thread-your-guide-regulation-ec261-2004-a.html

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The 2020 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004

Old Nov 8, 20, 2:49 am
  #481  
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Originally Posted by SFOTraveler1984 View Post
Can somebody please confirm my understanding of the following situation and EC261?

My flight back home was cancelled by BA within 14 days of departure and the earliest alternative flight is now 2 days after the original flight. I.e. I have to stay at my current location for two more days.
Does that mean BA would have to cover hotel costs (as long as they are reasonable) for two nights under "duty of care" and on top I would be able to claim 600 EUR compensation?

Or would I forfeit the 600 EUR compensation if I submit receipts for "duty of care"?

Thank you!
Details matter here. BA can still cancel within 14 days but extraordinary circumstances might prevail - particularly right now. If, say, you were returning from CPH then the government announcement on extended travel restrictions would certainly fall in that category. Generally speaking, at the moment it is more difficult (but not impossible) to make a compensation case for cancellations so we need to know why BA has cancelled and where you were flying from.

Duty of Care always applies no matter how long in advance the cancellation occurs.

The two are separate and both can be paid.
Originally Posted by Dizzyb3 View Post
BA changed our outbound to TLV on 27.12.20 from first to club. We’re due to return on BA 0164 in club. I don’t think for a minute we’ll be going and am holding out for a refund when BA cancel. I’d love some advice please on how that will work considering the downgrade.
thanks for any advice!
You have to actually fly to qualify for a downgrade refund. As you wish to cancel, you will merely get your F/J combined fare returned.
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Old Nov 9, 20, 2:54 am
  #482  
 
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Two nights in GIG

I flew to GiG with KLM

My return GRU to LHR with BA on 17 Nov is cancelled and I will now return 19 Nov on the next BA flight

Can I claim duty of care for 2 night accommodation where I am staying in Rio extending my current stay ?

What is the food allowance/day?

I need to buy a new connection to GRU on 19th but I think this is down to me to pay - can you confirm ?

Thanks in advance for any advice ...
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Old Nov 9, 20, 3:19 am
  #483  
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Originally Posted by WeLoveSpace View Post
Can I claim duty of care for 2 night accommodation where I am staying in Rio extending my current stay ?

What is the food allowance/day?

I need to buy a new connection to GRU on 19th but I think this is down to me to pay - can you confirm ?
The new connection from GIG to GRU was presumably not in your original booking, so that would count as consequentlal losses. Maybe you can efficiently move the previous arrangement, or use it and simply have 2 days in GRU instead. But the RIght to Care should be OK for hotels, meals, communication and the transfer costs. BA may even pay this without too much problem. There is a guideline of 200 per room per night, and I think 25 for meals. In the Brazil context you shouldn't have a problem there, but as ever it is best to lean on the frugal side at least for some of the meals (e.g. getting lunch from a supermarket). Keep the receipts, and since it's easy to lose these when travelling, I'd take a photo on your phone for this. Ideally get a room with breakfast included, then it makes the maths and claiming easier.
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Old Nov 9, 20, 1:50 pm
  #484  
 
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I got my case sorted after 6 months with CEDR...


flight LHR-SOF cancelled inside 14 days...I was moved to next day service...
now I must claim turnaround flight...quite surprised by decision because after CEDR gave BA 6 times extra time to respond... I had bud filling....

Flight: BA0892 from London Heathrow (LHR) to Sofia Airport (SOF) on 28 March 2020 (the Flight)
Agreed facts
 The passenger was booked on the Flight.
 The Flight was cancelled on 17 March 2020.
Issues in dispute
 The passenger claims 400.00 for the cancellation of the Flight.
 The airline submits that the Flight was cancelled due to exceptional circumstances such that it has
no obligation to pay compensation.
Decision making principles
 In order to succeed in a claim against the Airline, the Passenger must prove on a balance of
probabilities that they are owed compensation under Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 of the European
Parliament and of the Council of 11 February 2004 (Regulation 261), under the Convention for
the Unification of Certain Rules for International Carriage by Air (the Montreal Convention), or that
they have some other legal entitlement to compensation or a refund.
 The Airline will not have to pay compensation where it can prove that a delay or cancellation was
caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable
measures had been taken.
 I have carefully considered all of the issues raised and the documents provided. Both the passenger
and the airline should be reassured that if I have not referred to a particular issue or document, this
does not mean that I have not considered it in reaching my decision.
Reasons for decision
1. The airline submits that it has no obligation to pay compensation in accordance with Regulation
261 as the Flight was cancelled as a result of the global pandemic caused by Coronavirus (Covid19). The airline submits that the cancellation of the Flight amounts to extraordinary circumstances
which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken.
2. I have had provided correspondence in evidence illustrating that the passenger was informed on
17 March 2020 that the Flight had been cancelled. I have no evidence to illustrate that the
passenger was informed of the cancellation earlier than this date and therefore I find that the
passenger was informed of the cancellation eleven days before the scheduled time of departure.
3. As the passenger was re-routed and arrived in SOF 18 hours and 35 minutes later than the original
scheduled time of arrival, I find Article 5(1)(c)(ii) of Regulation 261 relevant to the passengers
claim.
4. Article 5(1)(c)(ii) of Regulation 261 states that in the case of cancellation of a flight, the passengers
concerned shall have the right to compensation by the operating air carrier in accordance with
Article 7, unless they are informed of the cancellation between two weeks and seven days before
the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing them to depart no more than
two hours before the scheduled time of departure and to reach their final destination less than four
hours after the scheduled time of arrival.
5. Article 5(3) states that an operating air carrier shall not be obliged to pay compensation in
accordance with Article 7, if it can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary
circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been
taken.
6. The Interpretative Guidelines on EU passenger rights from the European Commission clarifies that
where public authorities take measures intended to contain the Covid-19 pandemic, such
measures are by their nature and origin not inherent in the normal exercise of the activity of carriers
and are outside their actual control. The guidelines state that in situations where a flight may
remain empty due to a limitation of the movement of persons, it may be legitimate for a carrier to
cancel the flight in good time in order for appropriate organisational measures to be taken. In cases
of the kind, and depending on the circumstances, a cancellation may still be viewed as caused
by the measure taken by the public authorities.
7. I am satisfied on the basis of the news articles provided in evidence by the airline that the FCO
had issued a travel advisory notice advising all British Nationals against all but essential
international travel. I also note from the news articles and press releases provided in evidence that
Bulgaria had temporarily prohibited the entry of all persons arriving from the United Kingdom, with
the exception of Bulgarian Nationals, family members of Bulgarian Nationals and persons with
permanent and long-term residence status in the Republic of Bulgaria, as well as their family
members.
8. Considering the circumstances surrounding the Covid-19 global pandemic, and the government
guidelines surrounding movement of persons, I accept that the cancellation of the Flight can be
found to have been caused by extraordinary circumstances.
9. The airline is also required to prove that the cancellation could also not have been avoided even if
all reasonable measures had been taken.
10. The airline submits that there were no reasonable measures that could have been taken to avoid
the cancellation of the flight due to the travel restrictions imposed by the Bulgarian Ministry of
Internal Affairs and the UK Government advice, and it was not commercially viable to operate the
flight on 28 March 2020.
11. I am satisfied that the FCO travel advice and Bulgarian travel restrictions did not completely prohibit
travel between the UK and Bulgaria on the date in question, and as such I find that it was still
possible to operate the Flight where passengers were still intending to travel. I am also mindful of
the fact that the passenger was re-routed on a subsequent flight to SOF the following day,
demonstrating that travel was still possible and flights to SOF were still being operated by the
airline.
12. The airline has not provided any evidence to illustrate that there were any concerns over the wellbeing or health of the crew scheduled to operate the Flight. The airline has also not provided any
evidence to illustrate that passenger numbers would have been sufficiently low as to have required
cancellation of the Flight for commercial reasons. The evidence provided is not sufficient to
persuade me that the airline had no choice but to cancel the Flight.
13. It follows that the airline has failed to establish that the cancellation of the Flight was caused by
extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures
had been taken, and as such I find that the passenger is therefore entitled to compensation under
Regulation 261.
14. In view of the distance of the Flight, Regulation 261 provides for compensation of 400.00 per
passenger. The total sum therefore due to the passenger is 400.00.
Decision
 The passengers claim succeeds in full.
 I direct the airline to pay the passenger the total sum of 400.00 in compensation.
 The conversion rate from Euros to Pounds Sterling shall be in accordance with the exchange rate
published on the European Central Bank website on the first working day of the month in which this
decision is issued.
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Old Nov 9, 20, 2:01 pm
  #485  
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Thanks for that update.

The short version of the above is that CEDR does accept that the pandemic generally is an exceptional circumstance, but once again the rest of the sentence from the Regulation has to be taken on board. Namely that all reasonable measures need to be taken, if the airline wants to avoid paying compensation with short notice cancellations. And since BA (presumably) flew the next day to SOF, that's a tough bar for BA to meet.
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Old Nov 9, 20, 2:27 pm
  #486  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Thanks for that update.

The short version of the above is that CEDR does accept that the pandemic generally is an exceptional circumstance, but once again the rest of the sentence from the Regulation has to be taken on board. Namely that all reasonable measures need to be taken, if the airline wants to avoid paying compensation with short notice cancellations. And since BA (presumably) flew the next day to SOF, that's a tough bar for BA to meet.
For record they had also flight the same.day but in the morning which I couldn't take
So generally they cancel second rotation on what day...
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Old Nov 10, 20, 2:50 am
  #487  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
The new connection from GIG to GRU was presumably not in your original booking, so that would count as consequentlal losses. Maybe you can efficiently move the previous arrangement, or use it and simply have 2 days in GRU instead. But the RIght to Care should be OK for hotels, meals, communication and the transfer costs. BA may even pay this without too much problem. There is a guideline of 200 per room per night, and I think 25 for meals. In the Brazil context you shouldn't have a problem there, but as ever it is best to lean on the frugal side at least for some of the meals (e.g. getting lunch from a supermarket). Keep the receipts, and since it's easy to lose these when travelling, I'd take a photo on your phone for this. Ideally get a room with breakfast included, then it makes the maths and claiming easier.
Very helpful ... much appreciated cws...
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Old Nov 10, 20, 6:43 am
  #488  
 
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Hopefully this should be a simple 'yes' or 'no'.... but... .

Had our LHR-BWI flight cancelled for January and 'have been rebooked into IAD'. (Okay not a problem really if you're going into downtown Washington DC, but we're not). The email also states we need to select 'accept' to confirm that flight through MMB - which actually there is no 'accept' on the MMB (but 'change' - which doesn't work) - the other options that would get us into BWI involve connections that would be 4+ hours longer travel time (although we could arrive earlier by leaving much earlier). If we accept going into IAD BA says it won't pay for IAD-BWI transfer, if we don't it will be 4+ hours longer: oh, and it's after 1 Jan, so presumably the EC261 won't apply to BA ex UK TATLs.
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Old Nov 10, 20, 6:51 am
  #489  
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Originally Posted by CKBA View Post
Hopefully this should be a simple 'yes' or 'no'.... but... .

Had our LHR-BWI flight cancelled for January and 'have been rebooked into IAD'. (Okay not a problem really if you're going into downtown Washington DC, but we're not). The email also states we need to select 'accept' to confirm that flight through MMB - which actually there is no 'accept' on the MMB (but 'change' - which doesn't work) - the other options that would get us into BWI involve connections that would be 4+ hours longer travel time (although we could arrive earlier by leaving much earlier). If we accept going into IAD BA says it won't pay for IAD-BWI transfer, if we don't it will be 4+ hours longer: oh, and it's after 1 Jan, so presumably the EC261 won't apply to BA ex UK TATLs.
As to your last bit, I don't think parliament will have moved with its usual speed to strike that regulation from its books.
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Old Nov 10, 20, 6:58 am
  #490  
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Originally Posted by CKBA View Post
Hopefully this should be a simple 'yes' or 'no'.... but... .

Had our LHR-BWI flight cancelled for January and 'have been rebooked into IAD'. (Okay not a problem really if you're going into downtown Washington DC, but we're not). The email also states we need to select 'accept' to confirm that flight through MMB - which actually there is no 'accept' on the MMB (but 'change' - which doesn't work) - the other options that would get us into BWI involve connections that would be 4+ hours longer travel time (although we could arrive earlier by leaving much earlier). If we accept going into IAD BA says it won't pay for IAD-BWI transfer, if we don't it will be 4+ hours longer: oh, and it's after 1 Jan, so presumably the EC261 won't apply to BA ex UK TATLs.
Indeed EC261 has been incorporated into UK law twice over, so it's not going anywhere.

If BA rebooks you to IAD then you can claim the transfer cost, that is specifically provided for in EC261. Article 8 recital 3. The screens may suggest you are volunteering for this, but the wording of the Regulation is that BA needs to "offer" you the alternative airport. However they do assume you will use public transport and there is separately a limit on taxi spend of GBP 50.
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Old Nov 10, 20, 9:11 am
  #491  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Indeed EC261 has been incorporated into UK law twice over, so it's not going anywhere.

If BA rebooks you to IAD then you can claim the transfer cost, that is specifically provided for in EC261. Article 8 recital 3. The screens may suggest you are volunteering for this, but the wording of the Regulation is that BA needs to "offer" you the alternative airport. However they do assume you will use public transport and there is separately a limit on taxi spend of GBP 50.
Seems like they're not being totally genuine here - the wording of the email is below. Note i) they have rebooked us; ii) we have to confirm the rebooking by clicking 'accept' and; iii) if we click 'accept' we forfeit the cost of transfer to BWI.

Dear CKBA
We're very sorry to let you know that your BA229 flight to Baltimore Washington on ....... has been cancelled. We apologise for the inconvenience this has caused.

You have been rebooked onto the best alternative flight below:

(Graphic of old LHR-BWI, new LHR-IAD)

Next Steps

You need to confirm that you want to travel on the new flight. Please go onto Manage My Booking and select 'accept' if you wish to travel on your new flight. If you wish to book onto a different flight, you can also review your alternative options.

If you accept to travel from a different departure point or to a different destination than your original booking, we will not cover any expenses for travel between the two points, including car rental and parking.
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Old Nov 10, 20, 11:24 am
  #492  
 
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Asking for a friend. Booked on BA for LHR-DUB-LHR in CE. LHR-DUB has been cancelled and he's been rebooked with EI, obviously in Y. Does the 30% refund run apply?
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Old Nov 10, 20, 1:18 pm
  #493  
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Originally Posted by ringingup View Post
Asking for a friend. Booked on BA for LHR-DUB-LHR in CE. LHR-DUB has been cancelled and he's been rebooked with EI, obviously in Y. Does the 30% refund run apply?
Probably yes. Note that it's the Mennens Formula (see wiki) that applies and it is possible that if the CE fare was low that there won't be much of a refund. 30% is the starting point, the end point could just a few pounds.
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Old Nov 10, 20, 1:39 pm
  #494  
 
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Originally Posted by Foofighter69 View Post
First of all, apologies if this should be in an existing thread! Ive been reading up various wiki posts and threads regarding what to do in the situation we find ourselves in but cant piece it together.

We (x4 pax including 1x gold and 1x silver if that makes any difference to this situation when it comes to discretion rather than regulation) have a cash ticket in J booked with BA LHR-BGI-LHR.

SCENARIO 1: Diversion
Flew the outbound 30/10, got diverted to ANU and BA (without any blips whatsoever!) put us up in a hotel and covered all costs.

Are we due 600 each under EC261 as compensation over and above what BA have covered under duty of care?

SCENARIO 2: Cancellation
Our return BGI-LHR is officially not notified to me online, via email or on the app as cancelled, however it is zeroed out on EF and the BA Gold Line has confirmed as cancelled.

Alternative routings around our original departure date offered last night (6/11) are:
1. 16/11 via the USA as a 3 sector routing with an overnighter in MIA then MIA-JFK-LHR, or
2. 19/11 via the USA as a 3 sector routing with a very tight connection in MIA around 2100 local (risking overnighting in the USA) and then MIA-MAD-LHR.

Alternative routings offered otherwise are:
1. 7/11 in J (cutting short our holiday by 10 nights and putting us out of pocket with accommodation cancelled for 10 nights)
2. 10/11 in Y (as above except 7 nights out of pocket with cancelled accommodation + downgrade J->Y)
3. 05/12 in J (extra 16 nights)

We are British Citizens and as I understand it we are not allowed to even transit through the USA? I also do not think the reroute offered is under comparable transport conditions.

So I guess my questions to the experienced folk on this topic are:
1. Are BA obliged under EC261 to reroute using other carriers e.g. VS which are flying J (with availability) & direct and hence what I would consider comparable transport conditions and without having to transit through the US given the inability to transit through?
2. If BA do not offer option 1 above are they expected to pick up the tab (all reasonable costs) until 05/12? Does EC261 cover this sort of scenario?

Thanks in advance for the replies!
Thanks to all who replied. We waited it out and BA cancelled our flight officially yesterday (notified via email and on app).

We took the earliest rebook in J (5th Dec) and BA offered to cover accommodation, food and taxi costs for 18 nights. 200 a day accommodation between 2, 25 a day per person for food and 50 per day for the travelling group for taxis. We have to retrospectively claim all costs once we return.

I rebooked the other travelling party (separate booking ref, I am a third party nominee for them) on the same call after I sorted mine out. They accepted a downgrade to go back earlier on 28th Nov. Same expenses covered.

Seems too good to be true?
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Old Nov 10, 20, 1:56 pm
  #495  
 
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Originally Posted by ringingup View Post
Asking for a friend. Booked on BA for LHR-DUB-LHR in CE. LHR-DUB has been cancelled and he's been rebooked with EI, obviously in Y. Does the 30% refund run apply?
Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave View Post
Probably yes. Note that it's the Mennens Formula (see wiki) that applies and it is possible that if the CE fare was low that there won't be much of a refund. 30% is the starting point, the end point could just a few pounds.
If you have been rebooked from BA to EI, then it means that the BA flight has been cancelled. Note that you could choose to cancel the ticket for a full refund and book a new ticket with EI. Check whether this would be better than asking for downgrade compensation from BA.
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