Jan 1, 2020, 2:30 am
Last edit by: Prospero
The Air Passenger Rights and Air Travel Organisers’ Licensing (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format
Downgrades: Mennens case - calculation formula is in this post
787 cancellations due to Trent engine issues - CEDR ruling information from the post in the 2018 thread and onwards.
For the 2019 thread:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/1948451-2019-ba-compensation-thread-your-guide-regulation-ec261-2004-a.html
Link to Text of the regulations in PDF format
Downgrades: Mennens case - calculation formula is in this post
787 cancellations due to Trent engine issues - CEDR ruling information from the post in the 2018 thread and onwards.
For the 2019 thread:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/1948451-2019-ba-compensation-thread-your-guide-regulation-ec261-2004-a.html
The 2020 BA compensation thread: Your guide to Regulation EC261/2004
Dec 10, 2020, 2:23 pm
#541
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,016
I don't know when in March the OP is flying, but I checked a random date (17 March) when the AF flight times match. AF departs CDG at 13:40 and arrives to DXB at 23:20. KL offers a flight departing from AMS at 14:30 and arriving to DXB at 00:05. Since the OP would have to get from CDG to AMS, he would probably have to depart from CDG earlier than if he takes the direct AF flight. He also arrives to DXB later than if he takes the AF flight. Therefore, I see no benefit of rebooking on KL instead of AF, but AF could probably offer this if the OP asked for it.
Dec 10, 2020, 5:26 pm
#542
Join Date: Apr 2018
Programs: krisflyer
Posts: 135
The remedies for cancellations are, I think, clearly listed in the Regulation: a full refund, rebooking on the next flight (presumably the next day), rebooking at a future flight. No compensation is due, but right to care is always there. So AF were within the spirit of the regulations if they offered the earlier service, they should really offer the next day's service as an alternative, and finally offer another set of flights on dates which are convenient to you and they have seats for you - this may need to be redemption seats. I am surprised AF have not offered KLM service as the alternative, incidentally. But if AF only offers the earlier service, yes you can claim right to care after the event, covering the hotel night. It's not stated in the Regulation, but I think this has to be reasonable, otherwise AF would be within their rights to book you into an Ibis. It's not difficult to find really good hotels in the AED 350 vicitinty (£70), £950 is taking the mick, which I think you appreciated given the wording.
In this respect AF is the operating airline, who have most of the focus with EC261. Virgin is just a travel agent in this scenario, but a good travel agent will try to come up with creative solutions for its customers.
In this respect AF is the operating airline, who have most of the focus with EC261. Virgin is just a travel agent in this scenario, but a good travel agent will try to come up with creative solutions for its customers.
Dec 11, 2020, 1:24 am
#543
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: LON
Programs: Mucci, BAEC, Eurostar
Posts: 3,291
Yes it is. The guideline is £200 just for the hotel so that would most likely be fine.
Dec 11, 2020, 1:41 am
#544
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,793
Indeed it's £200 for the hotel but (a) it's not cumulative, so the taxi fare cap is £50 and the meal guideline is £25 and (b) you should always act as if it is your own money here, just in case CEDR for some reason rules against you. Given hotel costs in Istanbul, it should be easy to spend a lot less than that.
Dec 11, 2020, 3:21 am
#545
Join Date: Apr 2018
Programs: krisflyer
Posts: 135
Indeed it's £200 for the hotel but (a) it's not cumulative, so the taxi fare cap is £50 and the meal guideline is £25 and (b) you should always act as if it is your own money here, just in case CEDR for some reason rules against you. Given hotel costs in Istanbul, it should be easy to spend a lot less than that.
Certainly I should treat it as my own money - but out of curiosity, do claims like these tend to be successful based on what you've seen?
Dec 11, 2020, 3:28 am
#546
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
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We get very limited information about success at CEDR for some reason. I guess for every 20 times I suggest CEDR, we only learn about the outcome in one case. There is a recent positive outcome upthread, but just once in a while there are CEDR outcomes which seem inconsistent. So realistically there is a risk that the CEDR arbitrator may say BA's early flight offer is reasonable and that staying overnight is consequential. Having said that, BA Customer Relations have simply paid up in a few similar cases, and fairly swiftly too.
Dec 11, 2020, 4:24 am
#547
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 1,588
Maybe because they take so long! After submitting all the info they required, I was told BA have 60 days to reply, which probably means I get 60 days to contest then BA gets another 60 days etc. I'll post here once my CEDR is over, although mine is a simply one of BA cancelling my flights with less than 14 days' notice.
Dec 23, 2020, 8:47 am
#548
Join Date: Nov 2008
Programs: SPG-Plat, Hilton-Diamond, Club Carlson-Silver, Cathay-Diamond, Virgin-Gold
Posts: 2,183
Hi, some quick advice please.
Had a flight from Belfast to London City for the 30th December just cancelled. Was a 18:35 departure and been offered the 15:10 to LHR which simply doesn't work for me and the agent wasn't willing to look at the 31st where there is still a flight available.
I feel like this was probably a bad agent that what I expected but could be wrong, when I asked why BA wouldn't prefer to move me rather than be submit a compensation claim as the cancellation is inside 14 days I was told I wouldn't have a claim due to Covid, is this correct? The only option he would entertain was cancellation for refund or accept the LHR change.
Where do I actually stand?
Had a flight from Belfast to London City for the 30th December just cancelled. Was a 18:35 departure and been offered the 15:10 to LHR which simply doesn't work for me and the agent wasn't willing to look at the 31st where there is still a flight available.
I feel like this was probably a bad agent that what I expected but could be wrong, when I asked why BA wouldn't prefer to move me rather than be submit a compensation claim as the cancellation is inside 14 days I was told I wouldn't have a claim due to Covid, is this correct? The only option he would entertain was cancellation for refund or accept the LHR change.
Where do I actually stand?
Dec 23, 2020, 8:53 am
#549
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,945
Hi, some quick advice please.
Had a flight from Belfast to London City for the 30th December just cancelled. Was a 18:35 departure and been offered the 15:10 to LHR which simply doesn't work for me and the agent wasn't willing to look at the 31st where there is still a flight available.
I feel like this was probably a bad agent that what I expected but could be wrong, when I asked why BA wouldn't prefer to move me rather than be submit a compensation claim as the cancellation is inside 14 days I was told I wouldn't have a claim due to Covid, is this correct? The only option he would entertain was cancellation for refund or accept the LHR change.
Where do I actually stand?
Had a flight from Belfast to London City for the 30th December just cancelled. Was a 18:35 departure and been offered the 15:10 to LHR which simply doesn't work for me and the agent wasn't willing to look at the 31st where there is still a flight available.
I feel like this was probably a bad agent that what I expected but could be wrong, when I asked why BA wouldn't prefer to move me rather than be submit a compensation claim as the cancellation is inside 14 days I was told I wouldn't have a claim due to Covid, is this correct? The only option he would entertain was cancellation for refund or accept the LHR change.
Where do I actually stand?
in terms of moving you, you should be able to rebook on any LHR BA flight or EI flight (under the BA codeshare) to BHD so i am not sure why they wouldn't rebook you for the 31st? i think this may be a case of calling again, this move should be straight forward, and may even be offered on MMB if you try on there. There is space on all four flights.
Were you in J btw? There is no J on the EI flights but you should be able to rebook on Y.
EDIT: for reference, the relevant policy is
British Airways onto Aer Lingus flights - Customer Guidelines
BA onto EI, Update 7 - 26 November 2020 at 1615 hours (UK time)
Advice for British Airways-125 ticketed customers whose BA flight is now CANCELLED
Covers BHD and DUB
For tickets issued by 25 November 2020
For travel dates 12 August to 15 January
Rebooking Allowance onto Aer Lingus (EI)
Rebook onto BA*EI services between Dublin (DUB) and London (LHR) or Belfast (BHD) and London (LHR) v.v.
Available for Economy cabin only, rebook into the lowest available booking class
Only rebook onto the BA*EI codeshare not the EI Prime flight
Redemptions included
BA onto EI, Update 7 - 26 November 2020 at 1615 hours (UK time)
Advice for British Airways-125 ticketed customers whose BA flight is now CANCELLED
Covers BHD and DUB
For tickets issued by 25 November 2020
For travel dates 12 August to 15 January
Rebooking Allowance onto Aer Lingus (EI)
Rebook onto BA*EI services between Dublin (DUB) and London (LHR) or Belfast (BHD) and London (LHR) v.v.
Available for Economy cabin only, rebook into the lowest available booking class
Only rebook onto the BA*EI codeshare not the EI Prime flight
Redemptions included
Last edited by KARFA; Dec 23, 2020 at 9:01 am
Dec 24, 2020, 5:13 am
#550
Join Date: Nov 2008
Programs: SPG-Plat, Hilton-Diamond, Club Carlson-Silver, Cathay-Diamond, Virgin-Gold
Posts: 2,183
considering the new covid restrictions both in england and NI i doubt you will get anywhere with a compensation claim.
in terms of moving you, you should be able to rebook on any LHR BA flight or EI flight (under the BA codeshare) to BHD so i am not sure why they wouldn't rebook you for the 31st? i think this may be a case of calling again, this move should be straight forward, and may even be offered on MMB if you try on there. There is space on all four flights.
Were you in J btw? There is no J on the EI flights but you should be able to rebook on Y.
EDIT: for reference, the relevant policy is
in terms of moving you, you should be able to rebook on any LHR BA flight or EI flight (under the BA codeshare) to BHD so i am not sure why they wouldn't rebook you for the 31st? i think this may be a case of calling again, this move should be straight forward, and may even be offered on MMB if you try on there. There is space on all four flights.
Were you in J btw? There is no J on the EI flights but you should be able to rebook on Y.
EDIT: for reference, the relevant policy is
Dec 28, 2020, 1:42 pm
#551
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 205
We have a flight rescheduling and have been offered a refund or a rebooking at a later date. We are a party of 8. Is it possible for 4 to take the rebook and 4 to take the refund? Can 4 rebook to one date and 4 rebook to another date? Or does everyone have to take the same option?
Dec 28, 2020, 1:47 pm
#552
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,793
Yes, it's totally fine to do that, you could even do it one by one. What needs to happen is that you need to split the reservation before you press any other buttons. This is an easy task, provided there isn't a Companion Voucher involved. You ring up BA or BAEC and ask them to either split everyone off on their own, or split into two groups along the lines suggested. It's a very easy set of keystrokes for the agent to do this. You will then have two or more PNRs and you can treat each PNR differently, and potentially ask for a mega-voucher for the FTV group, this is a single voucher than can be used by the lead person rather than generating 4 smaller FTVs.
Dec 29, 2020, 3:04 am
#553
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denmark
Programs: TK Elite
Posts: 11,837
BTW there are cheap Havaist airport busses from many places in IST. Start running 6AM so should be possible.
Dec 29, 2020, 3:25 am
#554
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,793
I fail to see why the taxi fare is recoverable. The OP needs to go to the airport anyway. A rescheduled flight doesn't allow the OP to take a taxi and recover the expense from BA.
BTW there are cheap Havaist airport busses from many places in IST. Start running 6AM so should be possible.
BTW there are cheap Havaist airport busses from many places in IST. Start running 6AM so should be possible.
Dec 29, 2020, 5:43 am
#555
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denmark
Programs: TK Elite
Posts: 11,837
The duty to reimburse expenses applies to additional expenses/costs incurred, e.g. additional transport between airport and home/place of accommodation which has become necessary due to delay/rebooked/cancelled flight - not ordinary travel expenses that the OP would have incurred anyway.