BA422 (LHR-VLC) emergency landing in VLC (cabin filled with smoke)
Aug 6, 2019, 8:41 am
#181
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It would have been straight to the point for sure, it’s a shame that we get these troll types coming on here, especially when it’s a safety subject where people have concerns but I have a nose for trolls, as apposed to have a trolls nose. 
Aug 6, 2019, 8:52 am
#182
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 30
Courtesy call
Received courtesy call from BA. No new info, which makes sense. Just posting here for timings. So, presumably other passengers will be getting a point of contact around now.
Less than 24 hour turn around isn't too bad. I mean, ideally someone would have been better at VLC but that's not entirely BA's fault.
Less than 24 hour turn around isn't too bad. I mean, ideally someone would have been better at VLC but that's not entirely BA's fault.
Aug 6, 2019, 8:56 am
#183
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,065
I think I speak for every crew member when I say that as crew, we have no desire or plans to go down with the ship. Ultimately, I’m the most important person onboard, to me! If I thought for one moment that my life was in danger in such a scenario, I have the experience and training to allow me to make the decision to evacuate. Questions may well be asked afterwards but ultimately, we are trusted as crew to make informed decisions based on our training. Passengers do not have the same training and knowledge of procedures to make the decision to evacuate because they “haven’t heard anything” from the crew. I trust my Pilots, I trust my Cabin Crew team and communication between us is everything. When the crew are clearly busy dealing with a highly stressful situation, they may well not have the mental head space to take time away to make you feel more at ease. This crew won’t be judged for not making announcements, they will be judged (positively) for getting every single one of those passengers off of the aircraft safely and in the correct circumstances.
Saudia 163 does not compare to this. They had clear signs of fire in the cabin which were declared before the aircraft even landed. What went through the Captain’s mind after landing, none of us will ever know. But it’s known the cabin was pressurised after landing and the wing engines were still running for 3 minutes after the aircraft came to a stop. The fire continued to rage onboard, thick black toxic smoke killed everyone and fire consumed what was left.
Should’ve, Could’ve, Would’ve.
Saudia 163 does not compare to this. They had clear signs of fire in the cabin which were declared before the aircraft even landed. What went through the Captain’s mind after landing, none of us will ever know. But it’s known the cabin was pressurised after landing and the wing engines were still running for 3 minutes after the aircraft came to a stop. The fire continued to rage onboard, thick black toxic smoke killed everyone and fire consumed what was left.
Should’ve, Could’ve, Would’ve.
Aug 6, 2019, 8:57 am
#184
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Surrey
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Everyone got out ok and so it appears they made the right call. Getting out immediately into engines which are still running or some external source of fire... not ideal... there would have been lots of things to consider and sitting tight gave time to do just that and not rush headlong into something which could have resulted in far more serious problems. I know which side of that particular fence I’d prefer any pilots flying me around to come down on. Compare to the Las Vegas evacuation which was far more immediate due to the immense and obvious external fire and pooling fuel. I’m happy that BA staff are trained to take decisions as expediently as needed to ensure everyone’s safety. That’s not to say this event wasn’t damn scary for anyone involved, though.
TFC
TFC
Aug 6, 2019, 9:09 am
#185
Join Date: Nov 2016
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Everyone got out ok and so it appears they made the right call. Getting out immediately into engines which are still running or some external source of fire... not ideal... there would have been lots of things to consider and sitting tight gave time to do just that and not rush headlong into something which could have resulted in far more serious problems. I know which side of that particular fence I’d prefer any pilots flying me around to come down on. Compare to the Las Vegas evacuation which was far more immediate due to the immense and obvious external fire and pooling fuel. I’m happy that BA staff are trained to take decisions as expediently as needed to ensure everyone’s safety. That’s not to say this event wasn’t damn scary for anyone involved, though.
TFC
TFC
Aug 6, 2019, 9:14 am
#186
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Agreed - however if phone, wallet and passports can fit in pockets at takeoff and landing and thus no additional hazard to other evacuating pax, it would sure make things simpler on the ground if in, for example, a situation where bags might not be retrievable for a few days etc.
I have started doing this lately myself - think it's imminently sensible. If everyone did it, maybe less people would be stupidly scrabbling for hand luggage.....
I have started doing this lately myself - think it's imminently sensible. If everyone did it, maybe less people would be stupidly scrabbling for hand luggage.....
Aug 6, 2019, 9:19 am
#187
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The closest I have come to the ground situation here was on an AA flight at the gate preparing to depart. What appeared to be smoke started to descend from the ceiling vents and there was a smell like burning hair. The cabin crew were nowhere to be seen and there was no announcement. Everyone remained seated and calm. Eventually someone got up and went in search of the crew. He came back to report that they were huddled in the front galley with damp cloths over their noses. One of them took the cloth off long enough to tell him that it was just that de-icing fluid had got into the ventilation system and it was perfectly safe. That was certainly a case where there was no reason not to make an announcement yet none was made. It is a good thing that passengers are willing to remain calm and await instructions.
Aug 6, 2019, 9:31 am
#188
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We do know a few things about the Saudia TriStar - the FO was inexperienced, the Captain did not take a great deal of notice of the female purser who was passing info as to the onboard fire. There is speculation that the Arabic culture of relations between the sexes had some play on this. The American Flt Eng was dyslexic and had a poor training record, he seemingly found it very difficult to manage to the QRH drills ( several were in play) even referring to the Fat Crago bay rather than the Aft Cargo Bay. He failed to complete the drill and left the aircraft pressurised and in this state the doors could not be opened. The captain was singing prayers on the approach and it has been hypothedised that he had "given" up. The FO failed to make any real impact on the event. The only crew member who appeared to have a grasp of events and their seriousness was the purser ( other cabin crew may well also have been fully aware but did not appear on the CVR). The Saudia event was primarily a CRM nightmare that lead to the deaths of all aboard.
Aug 6, 2019, 9:54 am
#189
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As a side-note, the Flight Crew have minimal visibility of what’s happening behind them, either outside or inside the aircraft. Thay are almost totally dependent on the CC giving them as much detailed information as possible to form a judgment on the appropriate actions.
The video showing one of the CC, presumably on an open circuit to all crew, indicates what must be going on. And closing that open circuit to make a cabin announcement may not be the most desirable course of action. And I fully understand the FD’s issues in broadcasting from there wearing smoke hoods ... I’ve spent enough time in NBC respirators to know how difficult that can be!
The video showing one of the CC, presumably on an open circuit to all crew, indicates what must be going on. And closing that open circuit to make a cabin announcement may not be the most desirable course of action. And I fully understand the FD’s issues in broadcasting from there wearing smoke hoods ... I’ve spent enough time in NBC respirators to know how difficult that can be!
Aug 6, 2019, 10:05 am
#190
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: north of heathrow
Posts: 1,109
Agreed - however if phone, wallet and passports can fit in pockets at takeoff and landing and thus no additional hazard to other evacuating pax, it would sure make things simpler on the ground if in, for example, a situation where bags might not be retrievable for a few days etc.
I have started doing this lately myself - think it's imminently sensible. If everyone did it, maybe less people would be stupidly scrabbling for hand luggage.....
I have started doing this lately myself - think it's imminently sensible. If everyone did it, maybe less people would be stupidly scrabbling for hand luggage.....
Aug 6, 2019, 10:39 am
#191
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Agreed - however if phone, wallet and passports can fit in pockets at takeoff and landing and thus no additional hazard to other evacuating pax, it would sure make things simpler on the ground if in, for example, a situation where bags might not be retrievable for a few days etc.
I have started doing this lately myself - think it's imminently sensible. If everyone did it, maybe less people would be stupidly scrabbling for hand luggage.....
I have started doing this lately myself - think it's imminently sensible. If everyone did it, maybe less people would be stupidly scrabbling for hand luggage.....
Camera, iPads and Kindles can make their own arrangements, and are easily replaced.
Aug 6, 2019, 10:46 am
#192
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This leads on to why Oxygen (not Air!) masks are actually a bad idea! If we assume (massive assumption) there was an electrical issue on board and wires were burning above the panels, but not yet on fire because of a lack of Oxygen, then, the release of masks I suppose could make matters worse. Suddenly we have Oxygen in the cabin and a fire could start.
Again, this isn’t your fault for thinking this. Cabin Crew will say something along the lines of ‘pull the masks above your heads towards you to breathe’. It’s therefore not an unreasonable assumption to go “I can’t breathe, these things above my head help me breathe, why can’t I have these things above my head?”.
Now I have tagged you in this CIHY as I wish to call you out on calling people stupid. Your help on this forum is invaluable but do remember some people board a plane once a year or less, and do not have extensive training on how to deal with a smoke filled cabin. They are in a dangerous situation and do not know the perfect things to do, but it really isn’t unreasonable (stupid as you put it) at first glance for untrained people to assume the breathing masks about your head would help you breathe in a fire.
Last edited by ScienceTeacher; Aug 6, 2019 at 10:58 pm
Aug 6, 2019, 10:51 am
#193
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Back to the main thread topic and it must have been incredibly frightening for the passengers. I always think though that it's a great pity that crew will have to make real time decisions based on their extensive training and we amateurs then have the luxury of hours and days to extensively analyse and criticise those decisions. For me, the serious incidents like this one, Las Vegas and the 777 crash landing at LHR, where everyone on board lives to tell the tale, speaks volumes about the professionalism of the BA crews. Well done to all.
Aug 6, 2019, 10:58 am
#194
Join Date: Jun 2018
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If I see the pictures and video's I see a fire engine in the background but no emergency personnel at the evacuation chute. I would expect a number of fire engines/emergency service personnel at the plane. Or is it just the pictures that are available.
Aug 6, 2019, 11:14 am
#195
Join Date: May 2014
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I have seen a few pics that looked like fire fighters were standing at the bottom of the slide supporting passengers as they came down the chute.