BA422 (LHR-VLC) emergency landing in VLC (cabin filled with smoke)
Aug 6, 2019, 3:09 am
#136
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,065
I completely understand those points. I think I would have checked outside, listening for engine shutdown etc before doing it and it’s impossible to know unless you’re in that situation but I think my first instinct would be to get off the plane. If my children are beside me then I am definitely getting them off the plane. Ten minutes seems a long time and the pictures look quite bad.
Its all a bit hypothetical though as I wouldn’t know for sure how I’d react unless I was in that situation and it’s not a criticism of anyone that was.
I would remind everyone of the heroism shown by Barbera Jane Harrison in similar circumstances. A smoke filled cabin is not to be taken lightly and the crew are the best source of what to do and when to do it in these circumstances
Aug 6, 2019, 3:14 am
#137
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 30
Aug 6, 2019, 3:24 am
#138
Join Date: Feb 2009
Programs: Mucci, BA, Hilton.
Posts: 1,158
Not sure how you could have checked to see if the engine has been shut down from the inside of a smoke filled fuselage. Regardless of that none of us k ow for sure how we would react in this situation. The crew (including flight crew) do not always exhibit perfect reactions despite years of training. The chances that anyone would react in their own best interests are small at best and the best course of action IS to await instructions from the crew. The Las Vegas incident showed this to be true.
I would remind everyone of the heroism shown by Barbera Jane Harrison in similar circumstances. A smoke filled cabin is not to be taken lightly and the crew are the best source of what to do and when to do it in these circumstances
I would remind everyone of the heroism shown by Barbera Jane Harrison in similar circumstances. A smoke filled cabin is not to be taken lightly and the crew are the best source of what to do and when to do it in these circumstances
In answer to your question I imagine I would have no way to know for sure and would probably be acting on instinct, rightly or indeed wrongly. As I have said its impossible to know unless you are in that situation.
Thankfully there are no reports of serious injury reported and I assume the incident will be used as a data point to help improve safety further which is ultimately a good thing. I am also not criticizing the actions of the crew in anyway.
I do think that the people that take bags etc during an evacuation should be prosecuted in the aftermath.
Aug 6, 2019, 3:33 am
#139
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 30
Heels
Im not entirely sure the circumstances of this incident are similar to that of Barbera Jane Harrison but I understand your point which is of course correct.
In answer to your question I imagine I would have no way to know for sure and would probably be acting on instinct, rightly or indeed wrongly. As I have said its impossible to know unless you are in that situation.
Thankfully there are no reports of serious injury reported and I assume the incident will be used as a data point to help improve safety further which is ultimately a good thing. I am also not criticizing the actions of the crew in anyway.
I do think that the people that take bags etc during an evacuation should be prosecuted in the aftermath.
In answer to your question I imagine I would have no way to know for sure and would probably be acting on instinct, rightly or indeed wrongly. As I have said its impossible to know unless you are in that situation.
Thankfully there are no reports of serious injury reported and I assume the incident will be used as a data point to help improve safety further which is ultimately a good thing. I am also not criticizing the actions of the crew in anyway.
I do think that the people that take bags etc during an evacuation should be prosecuted in the aftermath.
This is why I wear trainers. Well, and I hate heels. They can bite me.
Notice the bags
Aug 6, 2019, 3:38 am
#140
Join Date: Oct 2017
Programs: Honors Diamond
Posts: 1,640
Taking off luggage in a evacuation makes my blood boil. Slowing down the evacuation could makes all the difference between life and death for someone else. Where people can be identified it should result in a life ban, there has to be more of a deterrent.
Aug 6, 2019, 3:45 am
#141
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 30
Yeah, that guy struggling at the top is... bad. Look at how many people are on ground on other side of plane. I mean, I don't know how much delay would have happened between those two doors being opened so that diffence isn't solely to those two struggling to get baggage down the slide but some of it must be. Also, there were maybe 8-10 people standing near me (not in the pic) - so not as terrible as it looks but there are still way more on the backside of the plane than were on my side.
Aug 6, 2019, 3:47 am
#142
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 4,287
I don't want to be mean/evil, but seriously, too many times such incidents and it seems to be a repeating situation. Something just needs to be done.
In this situation luckily it was nothing too serious...but for the next, it could be something worst....
Cheers!
Aug 6, 2019, 3:47 am
#143
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: north of heathrow
Posts: 1,109
That is why we change into flat shoes when that door is shut, till after landing. When I fly (as a passenger) I always wear trainers. How how I wish we could wear proper footwear that won’t fly off, as crew. I have started wearing my trousers to work more often so I can wear my Chelsea boots, for the reason of possible evacuation.
Aug 6, 2019, 3:56 am
#144
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: north of heathrow
Posts: 1,109
. Fine if these people get left behind, but those that value their life should not be hurt because of such irresponsible pax.
I don't want to be mean/evil, but seriously, too many times such incidents and it seems to be a repeating situation. Something just needs to be done.
In this situation luckily it was nothing too serious...but for the next, it could be something worst....
Cheers!
I don't want to be mean/evil, but seriously, too many times such incidents and it seems to be a repeating situation. Something just needs to be done.
In this situation luckily it was nothing too serious...but for the next, it could be something worst....
Cheers!
Aug 6, 2019, 4:01 am
#145
Join Date: Jul 2018
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 152
Or receive jail time or hefty fines. This indeed can determine the difference between life and death - of other passengers. I hope the next time (hopefully not) of such an incident, other logical pax will just shove or hit these people who are busy getting their bags while evacuation is ongoing and blocking their path. Fine if these people get left behind, but those that value their life should not be hurt because of such irresponsible pax.
Disruptive passengers
Are you aware of the consequences?
Disruptive passenger behaviour is one of the main reasons for aircraft diversions. Disruptive behaviour in-flight or on the ground can affect your safety and the safety of fellow passengers. Besides safety implications, it can have serious consequences, including civil prosecution. Airlines have a right to refuse to carry passengers that they consider to be a potential risk to the safety of the aircraft, its crew or its passengers.The punishment for disruption varies depending on the severity. Acts of drunkenness on an aircraft face a maximum fine of £5,000 and two years in prison. The prison sentence for endangering the safety of an aircraft is up to five years. Disruptive passengers may also be asked to reimburse the airline with the cost of the diversion. Diversion costs typically range from £10,000 - £80,000 depending on the size of the aircraft and where it diverts to.
We are working with airlines, airports and the Department for Transport to identify and develop new strategies that can minimise the frequency of these occurrences.
- Disobeying safety or security instructions
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Aug 6, 2019, 4:10 am
#147
Join Date: Nov 2016
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 457
Could be – for example – fumes in the bleed air taken from one of the engines, due to a faulty seal somewhere around the hot section. Has happened before but didn't necessarily happen in this case. But just to emphasise that fuel is burned in the engine and sometimes fumes can escape and be ingested by the cabin air system. So there is a 'fire' in the sense that fuel is supposed to be burned in the hot section of the engine, but the aircraft is not 'on fire' any more than your car isn't normally on fire when you drive it, even though 'smoke' is coming out of the exhaust pipe.
Aug 6, 2019, 4:13 am
#148
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,972
Aug 6, 2019, 4:20 am
#149
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Programs: IC Hotels Spire, BA Gold
Posts: 8,669
Regardless of the circumstances I have one really key question.
Why couldn't the fine people on the flight deck in this 10 minute window between landing and the doors opening make one short announcement.
Such as, "Folks, we are having a small problem which we are just assessing, please stay calm and we will have you out of here as soon as we can".
That took me 5 seconds to say out loud. 5 seconds. I would think that would have had a considerable calming effect on the passengers sitting in dense smoke not knowing what was going on.
As I posted earlier, am mindful of the Saudi TriStar disaster in 1980 where failure to start evacuating a smoke filled cabin as soon as the plane stopped after landing resulted in a catastrophe. Flight deck incapacitation due to being overcome was a very, very likely reason - inexplicably no attempt was made to shut down # 1 and 3 engines after the landing roll ended and the flight deck crew were eventually found slumped and still strapped in their seats.
If I was on board that flight yesterday, a short 5 second announcement would have provided a great deal of reassurance and authoritative calmness (to all pax) that the situation was under control and those at the pointy end were OK. But circa 10 minutes of NO announcement at all?
Why couldn't the fine people on the flight deck in this 10 minute window between landing and the doors opening make one short announcement.
Such as, "Folks, we are having a small problem which we are just assessing, please stay calm and we will have you out of here as soon as we can".
That took me 5 seconds to say out loud. 5 seconds. I would think that would have had a considerable calming effect on the passengers sitting in dense smoke not knowing what was going on.
As I posted earlier, am mindful of the Saudi TriStar disaster in 1980 where failure to start evacuating a smoke filled cabin as soon as the plane stopped after landing resulted in a catastrophe. Flight deck incapacitation due to being overcome was a very, very likely reason - inexplicably no attempt was made to shut down # 1 and 3 engines after the landing roll ended and the flight deck crew were eventually found slumped and still strapped in their seats.
If I was on board that flight yesterday, a short 5 second announcement would have provided a great deal of reassurance and authoritative calmness (to all pax) that the situation was under control and those at the pointy end were OK. But circa 10 minutes of NO announcement at all?
Last edited by BOH; Aug 6, 2019 at 4:35 am
Aug 6, 2019, 4:31 am
#150
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2002
Programs: Mucci des Hommes Magiques et Magnifiques
Posts: 19,100
Regardless of the circumstances I have one really key question.
Why couldn't the fine people on the flight deck in this 10 minute window between landing and the doors opening make one short announcement.
Such as, "Folks, we are having a small problem which we are just assessing, please stay calm and we will have you out of here as soon as we can".
That took me 5 seconds to say out loud. 5 seconds. I would think that would have had a considerable calming effect on the passengers sitting in dense smoke not knowing what was going on.
As I posted earlier, am mindful of the Saudi TriStar disaster in 1980 where failure to start evacuating a smoke filled cabin as soon as the plane stopped after landing resulted in a catastrophe. Flight deck incapacitation due to being overcome was a very likely reason (the flight deck crew were found slumped and still strapped in their seats).
If I was on board that flight yesterday, a short 5 second announcement would have provided a great deal of reassurance and authoritative calmness (to all pax) that the situation was under control and those at the pointy end were OK. But circa 10 minutes of NO announcement at all?
Why couldn't the fine people on the flight deck in this 10 minute window between landing and the doors opening make one short announcement.
Such as, "Folks, we are having a small problem which we are just assessing, please stay calm and we will have you out of here as soon as we can".
That took me 5 seconds to say out loud. 5 seconds. I would think that would have had a considerable calming effect on the passengers sitting in dense smoke not knowing what was going on.
As I posted earlier, am mindful of the Saudi TriStar disaster in 1980 where failure to start evacuating a smoke filled cabin as soon as the plane stopped after landing resulted in a catastrophe. Flight deck incapacitation due to being overcome was a very likely reason (the flight deck crew were found slumped and still strapped in their seats).
If I was on board that flight yesterday, a short 5 second announcement would have provided a great deal of reassurance and authoritative calmness (to all pax) that the situation was under control and those at the pointy end were OK. But circa 10 minutes of NO announcement at all?
As I have said earlier things will be learnt from this and incorporated into our training.