Club Europe - unusual text message : Removal of middle seat block
#106
Join Date: Oct 2013
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ET pax could be upgraded to CE but no meal loaded as they were a last minute upgrade.
Totally agree with BA here - in this kind of situation you have to use your resources effectively. Equally, a small customer service gesture made proactively could take the sting out of it and reduce likelihood of people seeking legal redress.
#107
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I take your point about judgement / gesture, but realistically the priority is to get people moving, and those doing the moving were not able to promise Avios without escalation to senior management, and I guess that takes time. Rather more people were affected by LNER's problems on Thursday at Kings Cross, again no proactive gesture, but they did get an after the event email of apology, pointing to the Delay Repay scheme, and a booking code for a 30% off their next Advance Single ticket provided it is taken before Christmas. I got a reactive but detailed apology from BA and a link to a claim area (not that I have anything to claim), so not quite as good but not much different. LNER did arguably have bigger problems than BA though.
#108
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Rather more people were affected by LNER's problems on Thursday at Kings Cross, again no proactive gesture, but they did get an after the event email of apology, pointing to the Delay Repay scheme, and a booking code for a 30% off their next Advance Single ticket provided it is taken before Christmas.
#109
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I must admit that you've lost me here. I thought that since the changes that occurred a few years ago, the cost of a UUA is always calculated as the difference between the mileage cost of the class of travel you want to fly in minus the (notional) mileage cost of the class you paid for. At any rate, that's definitely always what I have paid when doing UUAs on WT+ to CW which is the only ones I buy. If that were the case, that would be 4000 off peak for LON-NCE (CE is 8000 and ET is 4000) and 4500 peak (CE is 9000 and ET is 4500).
#110
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Happened before and likely will happen again.
I operated ex-HEL Christmas even 2008... We had already been cancelled twice due to weather, we were the only BA aircraft that made it in on the 22nd, the return was cancelled, so we had pax from the 22nd, 23rd and booked 24th to try and accommodate. Some went on AY and we took everyone we could. CE was removed and the aircraft made all Y, we used the 2 jump seats at the back for commercial, we had two staff in the flight deck, there was not a single sitting surface available for anyone... And not a word was uttered. Everyone knew why and no one asked for anything bar their usual cup of tea or coffee, and being a HEL flight, about 20 alcoholic drinks.
I operated ex-HEL Christmas even 2008... We had already been cancelled twice due to weather, we were the only BA aircraft that made it in on the 22nd, the return was cancelled, so we had pax from the 22nd, 23rd and booked 24th to try and accommodate. Some went on AY and we took everyone we could. CE was removed and the aircraft made all Y, we used the 2 jump seats at the back for commercial, we had two staff in the flight deck, there was not a single sitting surface available for anyone... And not a word was uttered. Everyone knew why and no one asked for anything bar their usual cup of tea or coffee, and being a HEL flight, about 20 alcoholic drinks.
#111
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This is so weird! I'm even more puzzled now! 7750 is what it shows indeed, yet I've booked lots of them over the years and would have sworn I always paid 8k when I had to book CE? DId I just not pay proper attention or has the rate gone a bit lower (since the introduction of the super-low cash rates with the default now being a higher avios amount and lower cash?)
#112
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 228
I've read the thread ad nauseam. Instead of people saying wow what a crap day all round for so many including staff working on the hottest day of the year and showing any leeway we are discussing compensation. Perhaps some need to get some context as to what happens in the world around us every day and stop crying for a few thousand Avios.
Sometimes in life things don't go to plan. There doesn't have to be an apology, there doesn't have to be someone to shoulder the blame it can just be a bad day. To my mind anyone inconvenienced by losing their middle seat is unlikely to have suffered any long term psychological effects and accordingly anyone looking for compensation needs to get a grip. BA didn't just randomly decide to change the product they offer for fun, they did it as result of circumstance. Perhaps you can set up a group hug for all the 'victims' of middle seat loss or maybe start a hashtag.
Your comments here - not least the rather puzzling reference to ‘bad bits of humanity’ - raise genuine doubts as to whether you have actually read through the the thread or not.
but as to whether any such decision should ultimately be accompanied by some form of compensation (and any legal issues that may or may not apply), in a scenario where a particular product / facility has been charged for, but may not be supplied.
You are the only person to use this sort of emotive language and perhaps the words are therefore much more a reflection of your own perspective and apparent sense of outrage than of anyone else’s.
Sometimes in life things don't go to plan. There doesn't have to be an apology, there doesn't have to be someone to shoulder the blame it can just be a bad day. To my mind anyone inconvenienced by losing their middle seat is unlikely to have suffered any long term psychological effects and accordingly anyone looking for compensation needs to get a grip. BA didn't just randomly decide to change the product they offer for fun, they did it as result of circumstance. Perhaps you can set up a group hug for all the 'victims' of middle seat loss or maybe start a hashtag.
Your comments here - not least the rather puzzling reference to ‘bad bits of humanity’ - raise genuine doubts as to whether you have actually read through the the thread or not.
but as to whether any such decision should ultimately be accompanied by some form of compensation (and any legal issues that may or may not apply), in a scenario where a particular product / facility has been charged for, but may not be supplied.
You are the only person to use this sort of emotive language and perhaps the words are therefore much more a reflection of your own perspective and apparent sense of outrage than of anyone else’s.
#113
Join Date: Jun 2016
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What is less obvious but in my view just as important is the benefit of not waiting, which some airlines do in cases such as delays above a certain length of time. When someone complains and you answer, you merely mitigate the damage. By contrast, when you offer something pro-actively, you have a chance to build a reputation in the customer's eyes as a fair and honest company or even a company that cares, and the consequential reputational benefits can be very significant. As a result, the couple of airlines I can think of which chose to pilot sending pro-active compensation to customers affected by some specific travel incidents chose to continue the process and never seem to have thought twice about it.
I would argue that this constitutes best practice and that the rest of the industry (at least among quality legacy carriers) should ultimately aim to emulate it.
I would argue that this constitutes best practice and that the rest of the industry (at least among quality legacy carriers) should ultimately aim to emulate it.
That said, I think a nice gesture would be to send a proactive and automatic email after a delay, making the passengers aware that compensation is owed, with instructions on how to claim. I do agree that this would go a long way to mitigating any reputational damage done by the delay, and appearing as a fair and honest company.
#115
Join Date: Sep 2013
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..............To my mind anyone inconvenienced by losing their middle seat is unlikely to have suffered any long term psychological effects and accordingly anyone looking for compensation needs to get a grip. BA didn't just randomly decide to change the product they offer for fun, they did it as result of circumstance. Perhaps you can set up a group hug for all the 'victims' of middle seat loss or maybe start a hashtag.
It’s actually a lot more boring than you’re attempting to portray ! Legitimate debate has taken place as to whether a supplier (in this case, BA) should, or should not, offer some manner of compensation if it provides a service which - in its own words - “is not what you expect when you travel with us”.
You feel compensation is not appropriate ; many others think it is. Simple as that.
#116
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I've read the thread ad nauseam. Instead of people saying wow what a crap day all round for so many including staff working on the hottest day of the year and showing any leeway we are discussing compensation. Perhaps some need to get some context as to what happens in the world around us every day and stop crying for a few thousand Avios.
Sometimes in life things don't go to plan. There doesn't have to be an apology, there doesn't have to be someone to shoulder the blame it can just be a bad day. To my mind anyone inconvenienced by losing their middle seat is unlikely to have suffered any long term psychological effects and accordingly anyone looking for compensation needs to get a grip. BA didn't just randomly decide to change the product they offer for fun, they did it as result of circumstance. Perhaps you can set up a group hug for all the 'victims' of middle seat loss or maybe start a hashtag.
Sometimes in life things don't go to plan. There doesn't have to be an apology, there doesn't have to be someone to shoulder the blame it can just be a bad day. To my mind anyone inconvenienced by losing their middle seat is unlikely to have suffered any long term psychological effects and accordingly anyone looking for compensation needs to get a grip. BA didn't just randomly decide to change the product they offer for fun, they did it as result of circumstance. Perhaps you can set up a group hug for all the 'victims' of middle seat loss or maybe start a hashtag.
#117
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My other half was on the flight yesterday too, and said it was completely full - with handbaggage items being limited, and certain items taken away at the door (fold-up buggies which are permitted onboard).
M
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#118
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Happened before and likely will happen again.
I operated ex-HEL Christmas even 2008... We had already been cancelled twice due to weather, we were the only BA aircraft that made it in on the 22nd, the return was cancelled, so we had pax from the 22nd, 23rd and booked 24th to try and accommodate. Some went on AY and we took everyone we could. CE was removed and the aircraft made all Y, we used the 2 jump seats at the back for commercial, we had two staff in the flight deck, there was not a single sitting surface available for anyone... And not a word was uttered. Everyone knew why and no one asked for anything bar their usual cup of tea or coffee, and being a HEL flight, about 20 alcoholic drinks.
I operated ex-HEL Christmas even 2008... We had already been cancelled twice due to weather, we were the only BA aircraft that made it in on the 22nd, the return was cancelled, so we had pax from the 22nd, 23rd and booked 24th to try and accommodate. Some went on AY and we took everyone we could. CE was removed and the aircraft made all Y, we used the 2 jump seats at the back for commercial, we had two staff in the flight deck, there was not a single sitting surface available for anyone... And not a word was uttered. Everyone knew why and no one asked for anything bar their usual cup of tea or coffee, and being a HEL flight, about 20 alcoholic drinks.
#119
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,605
[left]
I’m not commenting on whether BA should or should not have removed the CE middle seat block to get more people to their destination at a busy time of the year for air travel and after disruption due to bad weather but let’s also put this into perspective - there was some heat and some storms at LHR. This type of thing happens at weekly at many major U.S. hubs during the summer and storms are not unprecedented at LHR either (including far greater disruptions from an inch or two of snow every couple years).
I’m not commenting on whether BA should or should not have removed the CE middle seat block to get more people to their destination at a busy time of the year for air travel and after disruption due to bad weather but let’s also put this into perspective - there was some heat and some storms at LHR. This type of thing happens at weekly at many major U.S. hubs during the summer and storms are not unprecedented at LHR either (including far greater disruptions from an inch or two of snow every couple years).
The weather may not be unprecedented given that there has been 1 day hotter on record, however is extremely rare
These are not normal conditions for Heathrow. Like any airport its operations are based on its location. An airport like Abu Dhabi should be more than capabale of handling such weather since it is the norm there
I was flying from Amsterdam that evening and the flight ended up with about 30 minute delay due to the loading of cargo being held up due to the extreme (for amsterdam) conditions that day
#120
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The weather may not be unprecedented given that there has been 1 day hotter on record, however is extremely rare
These are not normal conditions for Heathrow. Like any airport its operations are based on its location. An airport like Abu Dhabi should be more than capabale of handling such weather since it is the norm there
I was flying from Amsterdam that evening and the flight ended up with about 30 minute delay due to the loading of cargo being held up due to the extreme (for amsterdam) conditions that day
These are not normal conditions for Heathrow. Like any airport its operations are based on its location. An airport like Abu Dhabi should be more than capabale of handling such weather since it is the norm there
I was flying from Amsterdam that evening and the flight ended up with about 30 minute delay due to the loading of cargo being held up due to the extreme (for amsterdam) conditions that day