Jul 20, 2019, 3:27 am
Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Quick answers to FAQ:
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep
Aug 22, 2019, 5:02 am
#1246
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
I recognise the point made above that BALPA have made every effort to adopt the most ‘reasonable’ approach throughout this process. They deserve credit for that.
However ...... accepting also that there are almost certainly things happening behind the scenes, to which few (if any ?) of us are privy, I do think there comes a point when BALPA could be deemed to be prolonging uncertainty - by which I mean, more so than BA. One could say that BA have at least made their position clear (wrongly or rightly) with the reported ‘final offer’ and that BALPA should therefore have decided by now what their own final position is, one way or the other.
I wonder whether BALPA are perhaps risking (some) loss of support with what might be seen as prevarication .... ?
However ...... accepting also that there are almost certainly things happening behind the scenes, to which few (if any ?) of us are privy, I do think there comes a point when BALPA could be deemed to be prolonging uncertainty - by which I mean, more so than BA. One could say that BA have at least made their position clear (wrongly or rightly) with the reported ‘final offer’ and that BALPA should therefore have decided by now what their own final position is, one way or the other.
I wonder whether BALPA are perhaps risking (some) loss of support with what might be seen as prevarication .... ?
BALPA is in a serious negotiation with BA, who are not playing nicely. If it becomes necessary to strike the requisit notice will be given.
Aug 22, 2019, 5:04 am
#1247
Join Date: Aug 2018
Programs: BAEC Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 152
They don't have to wait until 14 days before the intended dates to announce, they could just announce now for 25 days time?
That then puts more pressure on BA and BALPA continue to look reasonable.
Aug 22, 2019, 5:14 am
#1248
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: City of Kingston Upon Hull
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 4,940
Surely they could announced their intention to strike right now with dates that don't impact the summer holidays?
They don't have to wait until 14 days before the intended dates to announce, they could just announce now for 25 days time?
That then puts more pressure on BA and BALPA continue to look reasonable.
They don't have to wait until 14 days before the intended dates to announce, they could just announce now for 25 days time?
That then puts more pressure on BA and BALPA continue to look reasonable.
Aug 22, 2019, 5:17 am
#1249
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,345
Surely they could announced their intention to strike right now with dates that don't impact the summer holidays?
They don't have to wait until 14 days before the intended dates to announce, they could just announce now for 25 days time?
That then puts more pressure on BA and BALPA continue to look reasonable.
They don't have to wait until 14 days before the intended dates to announce, they could just announce now for 25 days time?
That then puts more pressure on BA and BALPA continue to look reasonable.
Aug 22, 2019, 6:20 am
#1251
Join Date: Oct 2008
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 887
All we have seen is this post from yesterday saying it was rejected.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31440128&postcount=1194
It might be that they are waiting to see if BA make any sort of additional offer or offer more talks before announcing any dates.
Until then we are all in limbo. Not much we can do except know what potential contingencies are available should a strike get called.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=31440128&postcount=1194
It might be that they are waiting to see if BA make any sort of additional offer or offer more talks before announcing any dates.
Until then we are all in limbo. Not much we can do except know what potential contingencies are available should a strike get called.
Aug 22, 2019, 6:20 am
#1252
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
Surely they could announced their intention to strike right now with dates that don't impact the summer holidays?
They don't have to wait until 14 days before the intended dates to announce, they could just announce now for 25 days time?
That then puts more pressure on BA and BALPA continue to look reasonable.
They don't have to wait until 14 days before the intended dates to announce, they could just announce now for 25 days time?
That then puts more pressure on BA and BALPA continue to look reasonable.
The ability to strike at shorter rather than longer notice is one of the things that is in the union's favour (as kanderson1965) says. The longer the minimum notice period, the more things are pushed in the employer's favour. There are many places where zero notice strikes are permitted. My own personal experience includes arriving at SYD to find that nothing was happening (so we could not park, let alone disembark) because some ground staff had gone on strike since we departed AKL. IANAE, but my impression is that 14 days notice is already a pretty generous (to the employer) provision.
If you want to take personal pleading along the lines of "I don't want my holiday disrupted by a strike" to the extreme, you'd simply ban strikes. Otherwise, arguing about whether notice should be 7 days, 14 days or 25 days to make sure that the strike doesn't affect you is just you seeking to push your own problem onto some other passengers. After all, this is travel: if there is one thing that is guaranteed about travel, it is that sometimes it will go spectacularly wrong for any of thousands of possible reasons. Strikes are only one of them. Your summer holidays aren't so special as to be immune from such risks.
Aug 22, 2019, 6:39 am
#1253
Join Date: Aug 2018
Programs: BAEC Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 152
We need some realism here. I think that the required minimum notice period has been relatively recently increased from 7 days to 14 days. I think that at the time of both of the last big cabin crew disputes (2009 and 2016), the required minimum notice period was 7 days, and the notice actually given was only fractionally more than that (first strike dates 14 December 2009 for 22 December 2009, and 16 December 2016 for 25 December 2016).
The ability to strike at shorter rather than longer notice is one of the things that is in the union's favour (as kanderson1965) says. The longer the minimum notice period, the more things are pushed in the employer's favour. There are many places where zero notice strikes are permitted. My own personal experience includes arriving at SYD to find that nothing was happening (so we could not park, let alone disembark) because some ground staff had gone on strike since we departed AKL. IANAE, but my impression is that 14 days notice is already a pretty generous (to the employer) provision.
If you want to take personal pleading along the lines of "I don't want my holiday disrupted by a strike" to the extreme, you'd simply ban strikes. Otherwise, arguing about whether notice should be 7 days, 14 days or 25 days to make sure that the strike doesn't affect you is just you seeking to push your own problem onto some other passengers. After all, this is travel: if there is one thing that is guaranteed about travel, it is that sometimes it will go spectacularly wrong for any of thousands of possible reasons. Strikes are only one of them. Your summer holidays aren't so special as to be immune from such risks.
The ability to strike at shorter rather than longer notice is one of the things that is in the union's favour (as kanderson1965) says. The longer the minimum notice period, the more things are pushed in the employer's favour. There are many places where zero notice strikes are permitted. My own personal experience includes arriving at SYD to find that nothing was happening (so we could not park, let alone disembark) because some ground staff had gone on strike since we departed AKL. IANAE, but my impression is that 14 days notice is already a pretty generous (to the employer) provision.
If you want to take personal pleading along the lines of "I don't want my holiday disrupted by a strike" to the extreme, you'd simply ban strikes. Otherwise, arguing about whether notice should be 7 days, 14 days or 25 days to make sure that the strike doesn't affect you is just you seeking to push your own problem onto some other passengers. After all, this is travel: if there is one thing that is guaranteed about travel, it is that sometimes it will go spectacularly wrong for any of thousands of possible reasons. Strikes are only one of them. Your summer holidays aren't so special as to be immune from such risks.
I'm not looking to push problems onto other passengers, it's terrible that anyone has a chance of being impacted. I'm lucky enough to be in a position to book with another airline, I actually have flights reserved in case I'm impacted.
Additionally, people aren't just going on summer holidays. People travel for all sorts of reasons: funerals, weddings, birthdays, family reunions.
A lot of people on this forum seem to just brush this off with an attitude of "though luck, get over it". Those people don't travel just once a year for a family holiday.
In my opinion, this falls on both BALPA and BA. Each side are equally at fault.
BALPA shouldn't be causing such uncertainty, they've had a week since the talks ended. They obviously have an internal view of what's going on but want to milk press coverage.
BA shouldn't be allowing such uncertainty to remain, get back around the negotiating table and let passengers cancel for a full refund (and rebook with other carriers).
Aug 22, 2019, 6:54 am
#1254
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
Additionally, people aren't just going on summer holidays. People travel for all sorts of reasons: funerals, weddings, birthdays, family reunions.
A lot of people on this forum seem to just brush this off with an attitude of "though luck, get over it". Those people don't travel just once a year for a family holiday.
A lot of people on this forum seem to just brush this off with an attitude of "though luck, get over it". Those people don't travel just once a year for a family holiday.
Aug 22, 2019, 6:56 am
#1255
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,821
This is examined in some detail in the main EC261 thread, but in short if you proactively cancel a booking while the flight is still marked operating then you don't get Article 7 compensation. If you are told of a cancellation within 2 weeks of departure - and the offered rebooked times which exceed certain margins - then you may be entitled to compensation as well as the refund. But if the flight is merely delayed you have to be careful about cancelling or you may end up as a former customer and not entitled to compensation.
Aug 22, 2019, 7:02 am
#1256
Join Date: Aug 2018
Programs: BAEC Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 152
You're right that people aren't just going on summer holidays, even if it's a "just once a year" trip. There's a lot of travel that is much more important than a just-once-a-year family holiday. But as you recognise that, why suggest that BALPA should strike on dates that "don't impact the summer holidays"? Isn't that special pleading? Every time I visit my parents, I leave them not knowing whether or not I will ever see them alive again. I hope you will forgive me if I don't regard someone else's family holiday as more important travel than mine, or take kindly to a suggestion that BALPA should announce strike dates now for dates that might adversely affect my travel in order to save your holiday. The truth is that the dice will land how they land.
Whilst I am traveling for a holiday next time I fly, the week after I get back I'll be traveling for business. Then I'm traveling for a birthday in November. Then it'll be to see family for Christmas. So whatever way I look at it, whether it's now or later, if a strike is called I'll likely be impacted.
You're probably right that 14 days notice is about right, but it doesn't change the fact that neither side are really doing their best to avoid passenger disruption. But why would they care when money is involved? One side wants more money, the other doesn't want to give away as much. No-one seems to notice the people in-between, that pay the pilot's salaries and line BA's pockets... without us, there would be neither.
We should be able to book flights without uncertainty since we actually handed over money for the service. If there is uncertainty about whether the service can be delivered then offer refunds, simple.
Last edited by samfrost93; Aug 22, 2019 at 7:09 am
Aug 22, 2019, 7:07 am
#1257
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Godalming, Surrey, UK.
Programs: Nowt of note.
Posts: 1,628
Aug 22, 2019, 7:13 am
#1258
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: Battleaxe Alliance
Posts: 22,127
I guess what I'm trying to say is that regardless of the reason or circumstance of travel, it can have quite a consequence on people. (I still fully support their right to go on strike, although it's unfortunate that it might have an impact on people's plans.)
I used to cop every single major disruption going, but I have been getting away lightly recently, as I haven't had a major disruption for a while (touch wood).
I am still hoping that they can reach an agreement.
Last edited by LTN Phobia; Aug 22, 2019 at 7:31 am
Aug 22, 2019, 7:15 am
#1259
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: City of Kingston Upon Hull
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 4,940
I didn't suggest that at all, I'm just stating that there is nothing stopping them from doing so. My next flight dates will be outside the summer holidays anyway.
Whilst I am traveling for a holiday next time I fly, the week after I get back I'll be traveling for business. Then I'm traveling for a birthday in November. Then it'll be to see family for Christmas. So whatever way I look at it, whether it's now or later, if a strike is called I'll likely be impacted.
You're probably right that 14 days notice is about right, but it doesn't change the fact that neither side are really doing their best to avoid passenger disruption. But why would they care when money is involved? One side wants more money, the other doesn't want to give away as much. No-one seems to notice the people in-between, that pay the pilot's salaries and line BA's pockets... without us, there would be neither.
We should be able to book flights without uncertainty since we actually handed over money for the service. If there is uncertainty about whether the service can be delivered, then refund us. Simple.
Whilst I am traveling for a holiday next time I fly, the week after I get back I'll be traveling for business. Then I'm traveling for a birthday in November. Then it'll be to see family for Christmas. So whatever way I look at it, whether it's now or later, if a strike is called I'll likely be impacted.
You're probably right that 14 days notice is about right, but it doesn't change the fact that neither side are really doing their best to avoid passenger disruption. But why would they care when money is involved? One side wants more money, the other doesn't want to give away as much. No-one seems to notice the people in-between, that pay the pilot's salaries and line BA's pockets... without us, there would be neither.
We should be able to book flights without uncertainty since we actually handed over money for the service. If there is uncertainty about whether the service can be delivered, then refund us. Simple.
Aug 22, 2019, 7:20 am
#1260
Join Date: Aug 2018
Programs: BAEC Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 152
Unfortunately this is the way of the world, the only way around this would be to have customer representation in the discussions with the power to enforce a settlement. Even if this customer representation is limited to FT members (due to their obvious superior knowledge in this area) there is enough spread of opinion to make this completely unworkable. So it is back to two sides trying to get the best deal they can whilst pleading the case that they are right.
I guess I'm just trying to make a point about how we're here debating this and kind of just accepting the uncertainty and possible disruption... but should we have to accept it? I mean, we've paid a lot of money for a service we're unsure can even be delivered.
Maybe it's time the passengers balloted and went on strike, it might speed up BA/BALPA finding a compromise
