Jul 20, 2019, 3:27 am
Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Quick answers to FAQ:
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep
Aug 1, 2019, 3:54 pm
#841
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 36
My own thoughts for what it's worth.... we all accept jobs with full knowledge of how much we will be paid. It is our choice to either accept or reject that job offer. We are also free to change our minds at any time and provide notice. So if you are not happy with the money you earn for the job that you do, look else where and take a better paid job..
i am not aware of the ins and outs of the BA pilots pay scale but the general consensus is that they are higher paid in comparison to other airlines.
I also believe that international pilots with reasonable levels of experience command a salary circa 150k.
To reject an 11.5 percent pay increase over three years seems unreasonable to say the least. That increase probably dwarfs alot of peoples yearly earnings when looking at the number of people on part time/zero hours contracts.
If my company has a good year in terms of headline earnings do I spit my dummy out and say that the money and bonus I agreed previously isnt good enough? No.... that's what i signed up for in the first place. Nor do I expect the company to come back to me and ask for my bonus back when they have a bad year...
Bad form from where I stand. The ba pilots are holding their company to ransom because they are big in number and know that the airline will eventually have to back down in order to stay alive
i am not aware of the ins and outs of the BA pilots pay scale but the general consensus is that they are higher paid in comparison to other airlines.
I also believe that international pilots with reasonable levels of experience command a salary circa 150k.
To reject an 11.5 percent pay increase over three years seems unreasonable to say the least. That increase probably dwarfs alot of peoples yearly earnings when looking at the number of people on part time/zero hours contracts.
If my company has a good year in terms of headline earnings do I spit my dummy out and say that the money and bonus I agreed previously isnt good enough? No.... that's what i signed up for in the first place. Nor do I expect the company to come back to me and ask for my bonus back when they have a bad year...
Bad form from where I stand. The ba pilots are holding their company to ransom because they are big in number and know that the airline will eventually have to back down in order to stay alive
Aug 1, 2019, 4:06 pm
#843
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 24
It's dailymail time! No wonder BA doesn't provide it on their flights!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...
- Captains are paid an average of £176,000 but want an increased share of profits
- One pilot said staff were unhappy at having to stay in four- not five-star hotels
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...
The raw pay doesn't matter. If the trend is stagnation or reduction, and the current compensation lines up with or is lower than for other employers, you have a case for a raise.
There's a reason they call it The Daily Fail.
Edit: I'm personally against this strike, even though it looks like it won't affect me. Just wanted to point out that it's often more complicated than the talking points suggest.
Aug 1, 2019, 4:09 pm
#844
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2002
Programs: Mucci des Hommes Magiques et Magnifiques
Posts: 19,094
Aug 1, 2019, 11:54 pm
#846
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,531
One of the main effects of fake news is precisely to make people send everything and everyone back to back and thus use “the middle” as the likely truth. That happens to be - perhaps obviously, a wrong calculation most of the time...
Aug 2, 2019, 12:12 am
#847
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Somewhere between 0 and 13,000 metres high
Programs: AF/KL Life Plat, BA GGL+GfL, ALL Plat, Hilton Diam, Marriott Gold, blablablah, etc
Posts: 30,531
My own thoughts for what it's worth.... we all accept jobs with full knowledge of how much we will be paid. It is our choice to either accept or reject that job offer. We are also free to change our minds at any time and provide notice. So if you are not happy with the money you earn for the job that you do, look else where and take a better paid job..
i am not aware of the ins and outs of the BA pilots pay scale but the general consensus is that they are higher paid in comparison to other airlines.
I also believe that international pilots with reasonable levels of experience command a salary circa 150k.
To reject an 11.5 percent pay increase over three years seems unreasonable to say the least. That increase probably dwarfs alot of peoples yearly earnings when looking at the number of people on part time/zero hours contracts.
If my company has a good year in terms of headline earnings do I spit my dummy out and say that the money and bonus I agreed previously isnt good enough? No.... that's what i signed up for in the first place. Nor do I expect the company to come back to me and ask for my bonus back when they have a bad year...
Bad form from where I stand. The ba pilots are holding their company to ransom because they are big in number and know that the airline will eventually have to back down in order to stay alive
i am not aware of the ins and outs of the BA pilots pay scale but the general consensus is that they are higher paid in comparison to other airlines.
I also believe that international pilots with reasonable levels of experience command a salary circa 150k.
To reject an 11.5 percent pay increase over three years seems unreasonable to say the least. That increase probably dwarfs alot of peoples yearly earnings when looking at the number of people on part time/zero hours contracts.
If my company has a good year in terms of headline earnings do I spit my dummy out and say that the money and bonus I agreed previously isnt good enough? No.... that's what i signed up for in the first place. Nor do I expect the company to come back to me and ask for my bonus back when they have a bad year...
Bad form from where I stand. The ba pilots are holding their company to ransom because they are big in number and know that the airline will eventually have to back down in order to stay alive
If if they are big spoilt babies using their numbers to blackmail their fair and already generous company into giving them grossly unreasonable pay rises, would they not expose their horrifying greed all the time?
as for your broader argument, in a nutshell “if they are not happy they can always leave”, it would be an argument against the right to strike in general, and most thankfully, that argument has been lost for decades. By principle, most industrial relation is legally due to occur through negotiation, but that negotiation is by nature imbalanced and all democracies acknowledge that when this break down, employees have the right to initiate a strike. I’m yet to meet anyone who’d want to lose days of pay for pleasure and would consider it unless they feel genuinely aggravated and unfairly treated. They might be right or they might be wrong in their demands, but the “big spoilt babies” hypothesis can be excluded easily most of the time.
Aug 2, 2019, 12:54 am
#849
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,237
If my company has a good year in terms of headline earnings do I spit my dummy out and say that the money and bonus I agreed previously isnt good enough? No.... that's what i signed up for in the first place. Nor do I expect the company to come back to me and ask for my bonus back when they have a bad year...
BA does not disclose how much your bonus is going to be. Neither in contracts nor in oral conversations during the employment process; I used to work for BA and my current employee has told me, in writing, how much my bonus pot can amount to (pending of course financial performance and my own's). BA does not. All it says is that "bonuses are non-contractual privileges".
And bonuses are where there is a huge difference between Banded and non-Banded colleagues. Last year's results - largest ever, yadda yadda yadda - yielded, if memory serves me right, a bonus of £600, before tax, for my former coal-face colleages. This I believe includes pilots as well. Mine, and bear in mind I was a low Band 2 manager (so not really top of the crop) was 16 times higher. And I write it with shame because, however well I performed my job and however I contributed to the airline's wealth, I did not work 16 times harder than a frontline colleague. I mentioned this disparity in an email to Angela Williams, director of People, who I hear has taken to sending out falsities to staff (some weeks ago I heard an email was sent to MF crew saying everyone else had accepted so why don't they just give up?). Before I left the airline I was still waiting for an answer from her.
Aug 2, 2019, 12:55 am
#850
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: UK
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 2,422
Behind the Curve: Meet the growing, worldwide community of theorists who defend the belief that the Earth is flat while living in a society who vehemently rejects it.
Last edited by Steve_ZA; Aug 2, 2019 at 1:03 am
Aug 2, 2019, 1:18 am
#851
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 5 miles from EMA
Programs: BD, BAEC Pleb, VS Pleb, Accor Pleb, HHonors Gold, Big White Season Pass
Posts: 5,904
Your points are mostly fair (even though one could add that pilots don't know exactly how much they make, much like crews, because they have a fixed wage plus a hourly add-on for every duty hour) but this one is incorrect.
BA does not disclose how much your bonus is going to be. Neither in contracts nor in oral conversations during the employment process; I used to work for BA and my current employee has told me, in writing, how much my bonus pot can amount to (pending of course financial performance and my own's). BA does not. All it says is that "bonuses are non-contractual privileges".
And bonuses are where there is a huge difference between Banded and non-Banded colleagues. Last year's results - largest ever, yadda yadda yadda - yielded, if memory serves me right, a bonus of £600, before tax, for my former coal-face colleages. This I believe includes pilots as well. Mine, and bear in mind I was a low Band 2 manager (so not really top of the crop) was 16 times higher. And I write it with shame because, however well I performed my job and however I contributed to the airline's wealth, I did not work 16 times harder than a frontline colleague. I mentioned this disparity in an email to Angela Williams, director of People, who I hear has taken to sending out falsities to staff (some weeks ago I heard an email was sent to MF crew saying everyone else had accepted so why don't they just give up?). Before I left the airline I was still waiting for an answer from her.
BA does not disclose how much your bonus is going to be. Neither in contracts nor in oral conversations during the employment process; I used to work for BA and my current employee has told me, in writing, how much my bonus pot can amount to (pending of course financial performance and my own's). BA does not. All it says is that "bonuses are non-contractual privileges".
And bonuses are where there is a huge difference between Banded and non-Banded colleagues. Last year's results - largest ever, yadda yadda yadda - yielded, if memory serves me right, a bonus of £600, before tax, for my former coal-face colleages. This I believe includes pilots as well. Mine, and bear in mind I was a low Band 2 manager (so not really top of the crop) was 16 times higher. And I write it with shame because, however well I performed my job and however I contributed to the airline's wealth, I did not work 16 times harder than a frontline colleague. I mentioned this disparity in an email to Angela Williams, director of People, who I hear has taken to sending out falsities to staff (some weeks ago I heard an email was sent to MF crew saying everyone else had accepted so why don't they just give up?). Before I left the airline I was still waiting for an answer from her.
Do they have a Director of Better? Or a Head of Perfect Curve?
Aug 2, 2019, 1:30 am
#852
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 120
Willie Walsh on Today Programme:
"I have to say I think the British Airways pilots are excellent, I think they work very well for us, they are very professional," he told the Today programme. "But clearly British Airways has a responsibility to all of its employees in BA. I have a responsibility to all the employees right across the group and I think the pay deal that has been offered is a fair deal.
"While British Airways admitted that customer information had been stolen or compromised, it says that essentially the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) cannot prove it was the airline's fault - therefore it is not possible to calculate a fine. BA's owner IAG said in today's results announcement that it "has not been proven" the airline failed to comply with its obligations under General Data Protection Regulation and the UK Data Protection Act. "It is British Airways' intention to vigorously defend itself in this matter, including using all available appeal routes should they be required."
IAG also announced that its revenues rose 7.9% to €12bn (£10.98bn) in the first six months of its financial year. Pre-tax profits dipped to €1bn.
Asked whether he thinks he can reach a deal with Balpa, the pilots' union, he told the Today programme: "I'd like to believe so. Clearly this is an issue for British Airways to deal with - nobody wants the uncertainty that strike action delivers to the business. "We're working closely with the pilots union. Representatives of British Airways met all day yesterday with them and will meet all day today." He added: "I think it is important to note that Balpa, the pilots' union, has not set any dates for industrial action at this point."
"I have to say I think the British Airways pilots are excellent, I think they work very well for us, they are very professional," he told the Today programme. "But clearly British Airways has a responsibility to all of its employees in BA. I have a responsibility to all the employees right across the group and I think the pay deal that has been offered is a fair deal.
"While British Airways admitted that customer information had been stolen or compromised, it says that essentially the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) cannot prove it was the airline's fault - therefore it is not possible to calculate a fine. BA's owner IAG said in today's results announcement that it "has not been proven" the airline failed to comply with its obligations under General Data Protection Regulation and the UK Data Protection Act. "It is British Airways' intention to vigorously defend itself in this matter, including using all available appeal routes should they be required."
IAG also announced that its revenues rose 7.9% to €12bn (£10.98bn) in the first six months of its financial year. Pre-tax profits dipped to €1bn.
Asked whether he thinks he can reach a deal with Balpa, the pilots' union, he told the Today programme: "I'd like to believe so. Clearly this is an issue for British Airways to deal with - nobody wants the uncertainty that strike action delivers to the business. "We're working closely with the pilots union. Representatives of British Airways met all day yesterday with them and will meet all day today." He added: "I think it is important to note that Balpa, the pilots' union, has not set any dates for industrial action at this point."
Aug 2, 2019, 1:35 am
#853
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 5 miles from EMA
Programs: BD, BAEC Pleb, VS Pleb, Accor Pleb, HHonors Gold, Big White Season Pass
Posts: 5,904
Willie Walsh on Today Programme:
<snip>
"While British Airways admitted that customer information had been stolen or compromised, it says that essentially the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) cannot prove it was the airline's fault - therefore it is not possible to calculate a fine. BA's owner IAG said in today's results announcement that it "has not been proven" the airline failed to comply with its obligations under General Data Protection Regulation and the UK Data Protection Act”
</snip>
<snip>
"While British Airways admitted that customer information had been stolen or compromised, it says that essentially the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) cannot prove it was the airline's fault - therefore it is not possible to calculate a fine. BA's owner IAG said in today's results announcement that it "has not been proven" the airline failed to comply with its obligations under General Data Protection Regulation and the UK Data Protection Act”
</snip>
Still in denial that its anything remotely to do with them
Fingers crosses that the talks are going somewhere
Aug 2, 2019, 1:37 am
#854
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: London
Programs: Mucci Blue, BAEC Gold, Blockbuster Video card
Posts: 1,378
Our equivalent at my place, for what it's worth, is now called 'Talent and Culture'.....
Aug 2, 2019, 1:39 am
#855
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: London
Programs: Mucci Blue, BAEC Gold, Blockbuster Video card
Posts: 1,378
On a purely selfish note I now see that I have happily managed to dodge any strike chaos for my flights on the 13th / 15th. Happy days. Especially as I am on 456 at 06:20 on the 13th - the only thing worse than dragging myself out of bed to get to T5 for that stupid O'Clock departure is doing so if it's then cancelled.