Jul 20, 2019, 3:27 am
Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Quick answers to FAQ:
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep
Jul 29, 2019, 12:44 pm
#706
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges and Environmentally Friendly Travel
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 22,212
FYI
BA's appeal has been selected to be streamed live from the Court of Appeal at 10:30 BST tomorrow and will be of great interest to many on here.
Here is a link to the Court of Appeal website: https://www.judiciary.uk/you-and-the...ourt-hearings/
And this is a (youtube) link directly to the court (73) that will hear the appeal:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFF...zfesJ4t8w/live
BA's appeal has been selected to be streamed live from the Court of Appeal at 10:30 BST tomorrow and will be of great interest to many on here.
Here is a link to the Court of Appeal website: https://www.judiciary.uk/you-and-the...ourt-hearings/
And this is a (youtube) link directly to the court (73) that will hear the appeal:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFF...zfesJ4t8w/live
Jul 29, 2019, 4:31 pm
#707
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges and Environmentally Friendly Travel
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 22,212
This thread has received a deep clean and will reopen tomorrow morning (UK time).
This is an important topic and we are happy for discussions to resume but in doing so there will be conditions attached. Please ensure all future contributions are worded respectfully. Baiting will not be tolerated and we ask that you use the thread fairly. That means giving way to allow others in and not dominating the discussion by repeating points you’ve previously posted. These are our standard conditions of engagement. An excerpt of the relevant rules are provided below
Your cooperation will be much appreciated
Prospero
Moderator: BA forum
This is an important topic and we are happy for discussions to resume but in doing so there will be conditions attached. Please ensure all future contributions are worded respectfully. Baiting will not be tolerated and we ask that you use the thread fairly. That means giving way to allow others in and not dominating the discussion by repeating points you’ve previously posted. These are our standard conditions of engagement. An excerpt of the relevant rules are provided below
12.1 Friendly, Respectful and Welcoming
FlyerTalk is a community and is intended to be a friendly, helpful and collegial place.
Please post in a friendly, respectful, welcoming manner. 'Snarky,' unfriendly posts will not be allowed. If you don't have something constructive to contribute to a thread, please do not post.
Unhelpful posts, such as "Do a search" or those that merely comment on the worthiness of others' posts or threads are neither friendly nor welcoming and will not be allowed. If you can't be helpful or contribute substantive content to a thread, please refrain from posting.
12.2 Avoid Getting Personal
If you have a difference of opinion with another member, challenge the idea — NOT the person. Getting personal with another member is not allowed. Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming will not be tolerated.
FlyerTalk is a diverse, multi-cultural community. Expressions of prejudice or discrimination in any form are not permitted (such as those concerning race, nationality, religious belief, gender, sexual orientation, age, disability, etc).
If another member gets personal with you, do not retaliate. Retaliation may well subject you to the same discipline. Instead, please use the 'Alert a moderator to this thread' button in the lower-left-hand-corner of each post, send a note explaining your concern to the moderator team, and leave it to them to handle. Please also see Rule 22 — When you believe someone has violated the rules.
12.3 Disruptive or repetitive posting
Posts that are inflammatory, inciting or unnecessarily provocative are not allowed.
Disrupting a forum by repetitively posting comments of the same general theme or 'piling-on' by posting merely to reinforce or bump a prior post of a disruptive nature are both examples of disruptive posting and not permitted.
https://www.flyertalk.com/help/rules.phpFlyerTalk is a community and is intended to be a friendly, helpful and collegial place.
Please post in a friendly, respectful, welcoming manner. 'Snarky,' unfriendly posts will not be allowed. If you don't have something constructive to contribute to a thread, please do not post.
Unhelpful posts, such as "Do a search" or those that merely comment on the worthiness of others' posts or threads are neither friendly nor welcoming and will not be allowed. If you can't be helpful or contribute substantive content to a thread, please refrain from posting.
12.2 Avoid Getting Personal
If you have a difference of opinion with another member, challenge the idea — NOT the person. Getting personal with another member is not allowed. Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming will not be tolerated.
FlyerTalk is a diverse, multi-cultural community. Expressions of prejudice or discrimination in any form are not permitted (such as those concerning race, nationality, religious belief, gender, sexual orientation, age, disability, etc).
If another member gets personal with you, do not retaliate. Retaliation may well subject you to the same discipline. Instead, please use the 'Alert a moderator to this thread' button in the lower-left-hand-corner of each post, send a note explaining your concern to the moderator team, and leave it to them to handle. Please also see Rule 22 — When you believe someone has violated the rules.
12.3 Disruptive or repetitive posting
Posts that are inflammatory, inciting or unnecessarily provocative are not allowed.
Disrupting a forum by repetitively posting comments of the same general theme or 'piling-on' by posting merely to reinforce or bump a prior post of a disruptive nature are both examples of disruptive posting and not permitted.
Your cooperation will be much appreciated
Prospero
Moderator: BA forum
Jul 29, 2019, 11:14 pm
#708
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 24
Just wanted to say thank you to @Oaxaca and @corporate-wage-slave for their input. I had no idea they have to offer to rebook, even if >14 days out. LH's got a ton of flights, there are at least some seats left on both them and the 3 BA CityFlyer flights, and I'm very flexible time-wise, so my anxiety has dropped by a good 90%.
Hoping to wake up to even better news.
Hoping to wake up to even better news.
Jul 30, 2019, 12:22 am
#709
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Surrey
Programs: BA Gold, VS Gold, Eurostar CB, IHG Spire, Hilton Diamond, Bonvoy Titanium, Hertz President Circle
Posts: 435
If you wouldn't still do your job if you won Ł5m then you should find something you want to do and do that instead. Spending 8-10 hours per day until you're 60 doing something you dislike, at which point the best years of your life are behind you (arguably) is not a great strategy. If you're reading FT you're clearly smart enough to be doing your own thing.
Jul 30, 2019, 12:27 am
#710
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 5 miles from EMA
Programs: BD, BAEC Pleb, VS Pleb, Accor Pleb, HHonors Gold, Big White Season Pass
Posts: 5,904
FYI
BA's appeal has been selected to be streamed live from the Court of Appeal at 10:30 BST tomorrow and will be of great interest to many on here.
Here is a link to the Court of Appeal website: https://www.judiciary.uk/you-and-the...ourt-hearings/
And this is a (youtube) link directly to the court (73) that will hear the appeal:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFF...zfesJ4t8w/live
BA's appeal has been selected to be streamed live from the Court of Appeal at 10:30 BST tomorrow and will be of great interest to many on here.
Here is a link to the Court of Appeal website: https://www.judiciary.uk/you-and-the...ourt-hearings/
And this is a (youtube) link directly to the court (73) that will hear the appeal:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFF...zfesJ4t8w/live
Jul 30, 2019, 12:41 am
#711
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 120
Will be very interested to find out the outcome of the hearing later this morning. So essentially boils down to BA claiming that BALPA failed to specify whether the pilots were in long haul or short haul fleets meant that the ballot could not be relied on. Obviously the Judge disagreed at the high court hearing.
Out of interest are the short haul and long haul pilots employed on different pay scales / contractual conditions (e.g. in the same way that MF / WW are?).
Out of interest are the short haul and long haul pilots employed on different pay scales / contractual conditions (e.g. in the same way that MF / WW are?).
Jul 30, 2019, 12:51 am
#712
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 5 miles from EMA
Programs: BD, BAEC Pleb, VS Pleb, Accor Pleb, HHonors Gold, Big White Season Pass
Posts: 5,904
I don’t understand BA’s argument. It seems irrelevant that if >90% of the entire eligible workforce has voted for action, what difference does it make if you break that down between long haul and short haul?
I can’t imagine that either sub-group voted massively against. I guess BA thinks that the vote is somehow skewed by one group being bigger than the other.
I can’t imagine that either sub-group voted massively against. I guess BA thinks that the vote is somehow skewed by one group being bigger than the other.
Jul 30, 2019, 1:06 am
#713
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 120
Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992
S226A - Notice of ballot and sample voting paper for employers.
The trade union must take such steps as are reasonably necessary to ensure that—
i)the lists mentioned in subsection (2A) and the figures mentioned in subsection (2B), together with an explanation of how those figures were arrived at
2A)The lists are—
(a)a list of the categories of employee to which the employees concerned belong, and
(b)a list of the workplaces at which the employees concerned work.
(2B)The figures are—
(a)the total number of employees concerned,
(b)the number of the employees concerned in each of the categories in the list mentioned in subsection (2A)(a), and
(c)the number of the employees concerned who work at each workplace in the list mentioned in subsection (2A)(b).
_____
For the avoidance of doubt I've only included what I think is the bit relevant to the hearing later.
S226A - Notice of ballot and sample voting paper for employers.
The trade union must take such steps as are reasonably necessary to ensure that—
i)the lists mentioned in subsection (2A) and the figures mentioned in subsection (2B), together with an explanation of how those figures were arrived at
2A)The lists are—
(a)a list of the categories of employee to which the employees concerned belong, and
(b)a list of the workplaces at which the employees concerned work.
(2B)The figures are—
(a)the total number of employees concerned,
(b)the number of the employees concerned in each of the categories in the list mentioned in subsection (2A)(a), and
(c)the number of the employees concerned who work at each workplace in the list mentioned in subsection (2A)(b).
_____
For the avoidance of doubt I've only included what I think is the bit relevant to the hearing later.
Jul 30, 2019, 1:14 am
#714
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Programs: BA, VS, HH, IHG, MB, MR
Posts: 26,871
I don’t understand BA’s argument. It seems irrelevant that if >90% of the entire eligible workforce has voted for action, what difference does it make if you break that down between long haul and short haul?
I can’t imagine that either sub-group voted massively against. I guess BA thinks that the vote is somehow skewed by one group being bigger than the other.
I can’t imagine that either sub-group voted massively against. I guess BA thinks that the vote is somehow skewed by one group being bigger than the other.
Jul 30, 2019, 1:17 am
#715
Join Date: May 2006
Location: 5 miles from EMA
Programs: BD, BAEC Pleb, VS Pleb, Accor Pleb, HHonors Gold, Big White Season Pass
Posts: 5,904
Well indeed. It seems like they’re trying to argue the validity on a technicality.
I can’t believe for one minute that BALPA wouldn’t have had all of their ducks in a row.
I can’t believe for one minute that BALPA wouldn’t have had all of their ducks in a row.
Jul 30, 2019, 1:21 am
#716
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club, easyJet and Ryanair
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK/Las Vegas
Programs: BA Gold (GGL/CCR)
Posts: 15,927
That is irrelevant. The challenge is that the list is defective because it failed to provide the required detail under the Act.
Jul 30, 2019, 2:37 am
#717
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 858
So a procedural flaw allows them to save face, yet keep up the negotiating pressure?
Jul 30, 2019, 3:12 am
#718
Join Date: Jan 2015
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,628
I thought that at one stage UNITE used an out date membership list to ballot members, so that ballots were sent to people who were no longer working for BA. It didn't matter that the number of affected people was minute compared to the majority that voted for strike action. it was a technical error and the ballot result was declared null and void.
Jul 30, 2019, 3:16 am
#719
Fontaine d'honneur du Flyertalk
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Morbihan, France
Programs: Reine des Muccis de Pucci; Foreign Elitist (according to others)
Posts: 19,179
I don't think that I have ever hoped so much that there will not be a strike whilst all the time recognising that this is probably the only way to get BA to sort this. You can empty Waterside and check-in for every Wannabee cabin crew whether they're good or useless - you cannot conjure up pilots.
Jul 30, 2019, 3:27 am
#720
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club, easyJet and Ryanair
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: UK/Las Vegas
Programs: BA Gold (GGL/CCR)
Posts: 15,927
Didn't this happen to UNITE in the MF dispute?
I thought that at one stage UNITE used an out date membership list to ballot members, so that ballots were sent to people who were no longer working for BA. It didn't matter that the number of affected people was minute compared to the majority that voted for strike action. it was a technical error and the ballot result was declared null and void.
I thought that at one stage UNITE used an out date membership list to ballot members, so that ballots were sent to people who were no longer working for BA. It didn't matter that the number of affected people was minute compared to the majority that voted for strike action. it was a technical error and the ballot result was declared null and void.
Have a look at the link below, and especially section 226A (2A) through (2I).
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga...2/section/226A