Jul 20, 2019, 3:27 am
Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Quick answers to FAQ:
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep
Jul 28, 2019, 12:34 pm
#631
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Factory 5th Floor
Posts: 319
I'd be very irritated if my travel plans were disrupted, but reading through the thread it appears this is BA's fault for failing to deliver promises. Anger should be directed at BA/IAG in this as it's entirely avoidable.
The public reading the news wont be aware of that, though. All they'll see are headlines of CHAOS and CANCELLED HOLIDAYS and that the offer was 11.5%. Doubtlessly they will then be angry as most of them won't have got anything near that in their most recent payrise and will think this is greed.
I'm generally not a fan of industrial action but this seems entirely reasonable to me. I'm surprised it's taken until now to he honest - the voluntary pay cut should have been restored years ago.
The public reading the news wont be aware of that, though. All they'll see are headlines of CHAOS and CANCELLED HOLIDAYS and that the offer was 11.5%. Doubtlessly they will then be angry as most of them won't have got anything near that in their most recent payrise and will think this is greed.
I'm generally not a fan of industrial action but this seems entirely reasonable to me. I'm surprised it's taken until now to he honest - the voluntary pay cut should have been restored years ago.
Industrial action at any time would cause BA total chaos. I do not believe the public are under any illusions that they are being used as pawns in this battle of wills by threatened industrial action that impacts during school holidays. Someone said to me that large numbers of BA crew don't even live in the UK. I'm guessing that has some implications for crewing on days either side of strikes with aircraft all over the place. If crew know they probably cannot get home to wherever they live then will they even want to operate on the days before any strike dates.
Jul 28, 2019, 12:34 pm
#632
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: near Heathrow
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL (OWE), SA LifePlat (*G), BD Gold to the end, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,911
I have flights on both the future HAL strike dates, and the yet undetermined BA dates can only add to potential problems, but as there's absolutely nothing I can do until flights are cancelled or reroutes are allowed, I don't see any point in stressing, as some are doing, about something I have absolutely no influence or control over. We'll just have to deal with our own situations if and when the problems actually arise.
Jul 28, 2019, 12:44 pm
#633
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Factory 5th Floor
Posts: 319
Percentages in isolation are really quite meaningless as points of comparison. If SAS paid their Captains at a rate lower than BA, a 13% increase at SAS could still be smaller in hard currency than an 11.5% increase at BA.
I have flights on both the future HAL strike dates, and the yet undetermined BA dates can only add to potential problems, but as there's absolutely nothing I can do until flights are cancelled or reroutes are allowed, I don't see any point in stressing, as some are doing, about something I have absolutely no influence or control over. We'll just have to deal with our own situations if and when the problems actually arise.
I have flights on both the future HAL strike dates, and the yet undetermined BA dates can only add to potential problems, but as there's absolutely nothing I can do until flights are cancelled or reroutes are allowed, I don't see any point in stressing, as some are doing, about something I have absolutely no influence or control over. We'll just have to deal with our own situations if and when the problems actually arise.
I'm afraid I have no empathy for people who appear to have decided that Money is their God and apparently are prepared to target the school holidays. I apologise if this seems harsh but surely they could at least let the kids have their hols.
Jul 28, 2019, 12:45 pm
#634
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: UK
Programs: BA, U2+, SK, AF/KL, IHG, Hilton, others gathering dust...
Posts: 2,552
Happy to be here, and appreciate the input. My worry is the small window of time in which they could cancel my flight and not have to pay compensation. They may "jump the gun" and do it if there's even a moderate chance that flight won't happen, as they'd rather lose my 4.5k+$27.50/person than keep than:
*I do realize that if they're rebooking hundreds of people, they may have lower costs, but we probably have the cheapest seats on that plane, so we'd be the lowest-priority ones for that option.
- pay $150-$300*/person to rebook now, or
- risk having to pay the rebooking cost + any EC261 compensation to rebook later.
*I do realize that if they're rebooking hundreds of people, they may have lower costs, but we probably have the cheapest seats on that plane, so we'd be the lowest-priority ones for that option.
The regulation is pretty clear that the choice in this circumstance is rebooking or refund, and the choice is with the consumer. It is fair to say that various airlines, especially certain LCCs, have routinely tried to ignore this aspect, only offering refund, sadly because they often get away with it due to consumer ignorance.
Jul 28, 2019, 12:45 pm
#635
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,281
There are also lots of members of the public who've seen their own working conditions decline significantly, as well as their pay falling in real terms. We'd be very happy to see the pilots succeed against their bully-boy employers here. Travel insurance (with T&Cs carefully checked) can cover most of the costs of any changes to holiday travel arrangements.
Jul 28, 2019, 12:47 pm
#636
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,804
Happy to be here, and appreciate the input. My worry is the small window of time in which they could cancel my flight and not have to pay compensation. They may "jump the gun" and do it if there's even a moderate chance that flight won't happen, as they'd rather lose my 4.5k+$27.50/person than keep than:
*I do realize that if they're rebooking hundreds of people, they may have lower costs, but we probably have the cheapest seats on that plane, so we'd be the lowest-priority ones for that option.
- pay $150-$300*/person to rebook now, or
- risk having to pay the rebooking cost + any EC261 compensation to rebook later.
*I do realize that if they're rebooking hundreds of people, they may have lower costs, but we probably have the cheapest seats on that plane, so we'd be the lowest-priority ones for that option.
There is a detailed EC261 thread in the Dashboard which explains all of this, but one really important detail about EC261 is that you need to be very careful about cancelling a flight, it's usually best to go to one of the other remedies. As soon as you cancel you become a former customer, lose your Right to Care rights, and in many circumstances lose your Article 7 compensation too. So by all means work quickly when you have information, but be very careful about your two options above, they are almost certainly misguided. Once we get nearer the time, with better information, don't hesitate to revert back here before pressing the lever on anything, there is usually a self appointed expert online at any given time.
Finally there is very little prioritisation of customers when it comes to irrops. A Prem, GGL, First or Emerald gets a better telephone line, and marginally better treatment at airports, but that's about it. No one in BA looks at your cheap ticket and treats you worse as a result, there isn't the time or inclination.
Jul 28, 2019, 12:48 pm
#637
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: NT Australia
Programs: QF WP
Posts: 4,160
Try psyching yourself up to potentially (probably) explaining to excited young children that their dream holiday is about to be ruined and see how stable your stress level is.
I'm afraid I have no empathy for people who appear to have decided that Money is their God and apparently are prepared to target the school holidays. I apologise if this seems harsh but surely they could at least let the kids have their hols.
I'm afraid I have no empathy for people who appear to have decided that Money is their God and apparently are prepared to target the school holidays. I apologise if this seems harsh but surely they could at least let the kids have their hols.
Jul 28, 2019, 12:55 pm
#638
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: London Stratford, E7
Programs: BAEC Gold! Thanks to FT
Posts: 3,378
I think the public reading the news will find it hard to lend any significant sympathy for the well remunerated pilots who are about to trash their holidays. Sometimes the only alternative might be to withdraw you labour but I'm really not sure an offer of this nature is one that dictates a walkout, especially timed to inflict maximum damage on families when, as you correctly point out, others, in much lower paid occupations and in socially valuable jobs such as the NHS, Policing, armed forces and teaching will receive a fraction of that and would have probably faint with shock if such a rise was offered to them. Fortunately, the pilots work for an employer that is making a lot of money meaning 'good' increases are possible, apparently throughout the airline, when other companies are facing bankruptcy and uncertainty. In other words, most people are much worse off in real terms than they were having a decade ago having not had pay rises or rises that fell far short of inflation. Yes, that which we did get had to be self-financed. Not all of us, precious few in fact, will have the chance to get some of that back.
Industrial action at any time would cause BA total chaos. I do not believe the public are under any illusions that they are being used as pawns in this battle of wills by threatened industrial action that impacts during school holidays. Someone said to me that large numbers of BA crew don't even live in the UK. I'm guessing that has some implications for crewing on days either side of strikes with aircraft all over the place. If crew know they probably cannot get home to wherever they live then will they even want to operate on the days before any strike dates.
Industrial action at any time would cause BA total chaos. I do not believe the public are under any illusions that they are being used as pawns in this battle of wills by threatened industrial action that impacts during school holidays. Someone said to me that large numbers of BA crew don't even live in the UK. I'm guessing that has some implications for crewing on days either side of strikes with aircraft all over the place. If crew know they probably cannot get home to wherever they live then will they even want to operate on the days before any strike dates.
This is is one big game of poker, both sides trying to call the other ones bluff. I’d say the pilots have the better hand at this point in time.. it’s the summer, there’s not much capacity elsewhere, BA are looking to start flying a new aircraft with ground breaking new business class seat.. it’s their 100th birthday within a couple of weeks of potential strike dates.
I also suspect a fair fair few people will have booked alternative carriers for some journeys to avoid being disrupted. Whilst this won’t mstter if it’s JV routes get someone on sky team or star alliance and a few key corporate accounts could change.
I distinctly got the feeling senior BA management were putting the feelers out with their valued customers at the recent Golden Ticket event and a strike will do BA no favours.
Jul 28, 2019, 12:58 pm
#639
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Factory 5th Floor
Posts: 319
toys or not, no pilots means no flights. Full stop.
pilots, as SAS discovered this spring are the strongest labour group. It’s near impossible to replace experienced captains in a few weeks/months as you can with gate agents or even cabin crew.
whether some on here like it not, if the seeming huge majority of pilots do not like the BA offer then strike is a real risk. It may not seem fair to some posters but that’s not the point. They have a legally allowed right to withdraw their labour. If BA can’t offer anything acceptable then it’s seems they will. Remember after a huge strike SAS had to settle at 13% and revised conditions. 11.5pct with strings does nt look so good compared to that perhaps?
Jul 28, 2019, 1:09 pm
#640
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: NT Australia
Programs: QF WP
Posts: 4,160
Compared to mine its absolutely fantastic mate! Seems very 'acceptable' in the current climate. While we are at it, I paid shedloads for my holiday with the kids with BA. Erm….how much do this employee group usually pay for the same long haul trip......that's what I thought. Seems like not bad strings attached either.
jolly good luck with your application
Jul 28, 2019, 1:12 pm
#641
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: Battleaxe Alliance
Posts: 22,127
Compared to mine its absolutely fantastic mate! Seems very 'acceptable' in the current climate. While we are at it, I paid shedloads for my holiday with the kids with BA. Erm….how much do this employee group usually pay for the same long haul trip......that's what I thought. Seems like not bad strings attached either.
Did you pay up to around £120,000 of your own money to build up your qualifications to qualify for your job?
Did you know that staff travel benefit has quite a lot of restrictions and risks of not being able to travel?
Jul 28, 2019, 1:20 pm
#642
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Factory 5th Floor
Posts: 319
Whilst I totally hear what you are saying it’s unlikely the police or armed forces and health staff will have training debts the size of pilots. We are hearing there are potential flight deck crew shortages however poor pay and/or conditions will deter others.
This is is one big game of poker, both sides trying to call the other ones bluff. I’d say the pilots have the better hand at this point in time.. it’s the summer, there’s not much capacity elsewhere, BA are looking to start flying a new aircraft with ground breaking new business class seat.. it’s their 100th birthday within a couple of weeks of potential strike dates.
I also suspect a fair fair few people will have booked alternative carriers for some journeys to avoid being disrupted. Whilst this won’t mstter if it’s JV routes get someone on sky team or star alliance and a few key corporate accounts could change.
I distinctly got the feeling senior BA management were putting the feelers out with their valued customers at the recent Golden Ticket event and a strike will do BA no favours.
You may well be right. The pilots may have a better hand I suspect you are right. but it might be one that can only be played once and with some regret. Strategy-wise they run the risk of alienating just about everybody.
Jul 28, 2019, 1:30 pm
#643
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,281
The thing is, the pilots are well-enough paid to be able to spend weeks on strike, whereas BA cannot survive if it cannot operate from LHR for multiple weeks. In addition to the financial cost to BA, it points out the risks of a single-carrier dominating Heathrow. If the union holds its nerve, then they're going to get a very good deal here. And well done to them.
Jul 28, 2019, 1:37 pm
#644
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Factory 5th Floor
Posts: 319
Did you take a pay cut when the business was bad for your employer (and did your employer renege on the promise for future improvement in pay in return)?
Did you pay up to around £120,000 of your own money to build up your qualifications to qualify for your job?
Did you know that staff travel benefit has quite a lot of restrictions and risks of not being able to travel?
Did you pay up to around £120,000 of your own money to build up your qualifications to qualify for your job?
Did you know that staff travel benefit has quite a lot of restrictions and risks of not being able to travel?
NO, That was a matter of choice for you to accrue that debt, which you now appear to think is not your sole responsibility but also that of your employer to give you a big enough pay rise to diminish it faster. I presume you either had £120K lying around (not good practice), re-mortgaged your house, it was inherited or gifted in some way. Either way, your debt was your doing, not anyone else's. One presumes you conducted a risk / benefit analysis before committing and you were happy with that.
YES, I am familiar with the process. I presume that a revenue passenger must travel before you. If there is space you get on but they get it before you. You may have to slum it down the back if the jet is full but sometimes life just isn't fair. Ultimately you may actually have to buy a proper ticket to get back.
Jul 28, 2019, 1:37 pm
#645
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Yorkshire
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 355
I'm all for the employees ability to strike. If you're flight is affected then such is life, if my flight is affected...same. If you don't like it, book with someone whose employees are not afforded the same rights, at least your life wont become a victim of said people exorcising their rights.