Jul 20, 2019, 3:27 am
Last edit by: corporate-wage-slave
Quick answers to FAQ:
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.
NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.
Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.
BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.
Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.
What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.
How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.
What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055
and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594
Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.
and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information
Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.
What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.
Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 day’s notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep
Sep 15, 2019, 8:56 am
#2131
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Economy, mostly :(
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 7,801
Did I say that I was with BA? Or did I say that BALPA was in the wrong? Or did you, same as another character here who thrives on doing that, decide to put words into my mouth to give yourself an opportunity to post your nonsense?
Regardless of how much you insist on the presence of BA cheerleaders or apologists or whatever new name you will come up with tomorrow here, I am not familiar with such people. If you hate the fact that people have different views from those of yours, there are other ways to deal with those feelings.
Criticism should be warranted. You can't criticize someone for not giving in to someone else's demands when you don't even know what those demands are.
Regardless of how much you insist on the presence of BA cheerleaders or apologists or whatever new name you will come up with tomorrow here, I am not familiar with such people. If you hate the fact that people have different views from those of yours, there are other ways to deal with those feelings.
Criticism should be warranted. You can't criticize someone for not giving in to someone else's demands when you don't even know what those demands are.
In case you weren't aware, Flyertalk membership isn't airline specific and even you are welcome to go post on other sub-fora
Last edited by Prospero; Sep 15, 2019 at 10:49 am Reason: Amend quoted content
Sep 15, 2019, 9:03 am
#2132
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Programs: plenty - ggl, ccr, etc, etc.
Posts: 1,704
However the IAG share price collapse does make it susceptible to activists shaking it up a bit if it stays like this. So as a stock exchange listed company it might disappear. Before anyone shouts about it, Qatar doesn’t have enough shares to stop that (irs below 25%). If this happened every senior manager is on borrowed time if this happens. Capitalism can be ruthless. (And so far, the shares on what the FT is saying say the markets are Not believing the Cruzbot’s 6.5bn bs that’s is the response to any problem. IT fails? 6.5bn. Bad flight? 6.5bn. Maybe ‘6.5bm means 6.5bn’ is up next?)
Sep 15, 2019, 9:09 am
#2133
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Around somewhere
Programs: Gold, Some red card and some hotel cards.
Posts: 710
Most people know what to expect to pay to do their chosen profession and how long it would take them to pay for it. If you cannot afford to repay the loans then don't do the job in the first place
Sep 15, 2019, 9:12 am
#2134
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, TK Elite, HHonors Lifetime Diamond
Posts: 7,691
I am not backtracking on anything. Thank you. But using words like 'cheerleader' or 'apologist' does not advance one's argument. In fact, doing that makes whatever they want to say less intelligent.
Sep 15, 2019, 9:13 am
#2135
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: YYZ
Programs: BA Gold/Marriott Gold/HH Diamond/IC Plat Amba
Posts: 5,992
Can't see anything but a shareholder/investor group uprising against the current management bringing an end to this. That's why BALPA should use every means at their disposal to make that happen. I think as it stands now BA's management is quite willing to let this go on for a very long time knowing the longer it goes on it favours their strategy to break the pilots. So as a BA customer I'll take a month's concentrated disruption rather than this uncertainty on any advance bookings and related travel arrangements strung out for who know's how long. If not it's time to move on from BA despite the new Club seat and very good FFP.
Last edited by Crampedin13A; Sep 15, 2019 at 9:59 am
Sep 15, 2019, 9:13 am
#2136
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hong Kong, France
Programs: FB , BA Gold
Posts: 15,568
Well yes the A scale is no more but that doesn’t mean they don’t need pilots
US regionals yes that is also an entry level job but takes a lot of fairly junior pilots
there are plenty of Caucasian Australian pilots working in China on 2:2 or better rosters, being paid very nicely (the last one I spoke to was getting AU$1million for about 600 flight hours a year at I think Air China but could have been China southern, I wasn’t too interested in that part). I know this because I work with them every day. None of them speak more than conversational Mandarin. All had left Qantas, the supposedly blue chip height of career employer where people used to want a job for life and to work there until retirement.
we also have friends recruited directly from Australia to ANA. Pants was approached by EVA a few days ago, again on far better terms than he currently gets
Meanwhile as a result of the above, Australia now allows employers to sponsor pilots for visas. The rates are far better than BA pays for comparable roles
the point i’m making isn’t so much about terms and conditions but the sheer volume of pilots that are required worldwide
US regionals yes that is also an entry level job but takes a lot of fairly junior pilots
there are plenty of Caucasian Australian pilots working in China on 2:2 or better rosters, being paid very nicely (the last one I spoke to was getting AU$1million for about 600 flight hours a year at I think Air China but could have been China southern, I wasn’t too interested in that part). I know this because I work with them every day. None of them speak more than conversational Mandarin. All had left Qantas, the supposedly blue chip height of career employer where people used to want a job for life and to work there until retirement.
we also have friends recruited directly from Australia to ANA. Pants was approached by EVA a few days ago, again on far better terms than he currently gets
Meanwhile as a result of the above, Australia now allows employers to sponsor pilots for visas. The rates are far better than BA pays for comparable roles
the point i’m making isn’t so much about terms and conditions but the sheer volume of pilots that are required worldwide
It is rare to see an industry that has been continuously growing so much and so long, without the supply side (pilot formation) not growing as fast. After all, pilot compensation is huge compared to the duration of training and the entry level required. But there is clearly strong demand for pilots.
I am quite familiar with the situation on this side of the world. We all hear about some well-publicized cases in China and elsewhere. But it seems that they are not many, at least for senior pilots. Your "plenty" of Australian pilots working in China" might be a bit on the sensational side.
Sep 15, 2019, 9:22 am
#2137
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Around somewhere
Programs: Gold, Some red card and some hotel cards.
Posts: 710
Had that happen in my last 3 jobs I done, I didn't go on strike or moan about as I knew it could happen when I started. If I thought it was a big enough issue I would have changed employer. I suspect I'm not alone in this.
Sep 15, 2019, 10:37 am
#2138
Join Date: Feb 2011
Programs: BA blue,, aeroplan 25K
Posts: 1,029
Can't see anything but a shareholder/investor group uprising against the current management bringing an end to this. That's why BALPA should use every means at their disposal to make that happen. I think as it stands now BA's management is quite willing to let this go on for a very long time knowing the longer it goes on it favours their strategy to break the pilots. So as a BA customer I'll take a month's concentrated disruption rather than this uncertainty on any advance bookings and related travel arrangements strung out for who know's how long. If not it's time to move on from BA despite the new Club seat and very good FFP.
Shut the darn airline down until it’s resolved. It won’t take long if they announce strikes every day on a daily basis and do this one day at a time until it’s solved. Give it a week it will all over
Sep 15, 2019, 11:59 am
#2139
Join Date: Apr 2018
Programs: BAEC Gold, Emirates Skywards Silver
Posts: 170
I would tend to agree personally. This nickel and diming every one with once in a while strikes are nothing more than an pain in the behind and disruptive to us passengers who now have zero idea if flight affected in 2 weeks two months or 6 months will be affected other than wait for the 14 day mark to pass and then breath a sigh of relief for till their next flight
Shut the darn airline down until it’s resolved. It won’t take long if they announce strikes every day on a daily basis and do this one day at a time until it’s solved. Give it a week it will all over
Shut the darn airline down until it’s resolved. It won’t take long if they announce strikes every day on a daily basis and do this one day at a time until it’s solved. Give it a week it will all over
Sep 15, 2019, 12:08 pm
#2140
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,065
Sep 15, 2019, 12:38 pm
#2141
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: London
Programs: plenty - ggl, ccr, etc, etc.
Posts: 1,704
Factually incorrect and in breach of UK and so long as it applies EU employment law. I’m sure most individuals prefer a reasonable negotiated solution not these extreme and illegal ideas. Least anyone forgot this is a service business not a hedge fund and if you upset the staff who have customer contact then the whole business suffers later.
Sep 15, 2019, 1:13 pm
#2142
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
Sep 15, 2019, 3:18 pm
#2143
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: LHR/ATH
Programs: Amex Platinum, LH SEN (Gold), BA Bronze
Posts: 4,489
You guys are seeming to forget if they strike long enough, ba will go to court and call the strike abusive and after a certain point the court will agree.
you cannot just go on strike forever without any consequences
you cannot just go on strike forever without any consequences
Sep 15, 2019, 3:23 pm
#2144
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: London
Programs: BA GGL (for now) and Lifetime Gold, Marriott fan thanks to Bonvoy Moments
Posts: 5,115
https://www.gov.uk/industrial-action...ustrial-action
Sep 15, 2019, 3:27 pm
#2145
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: LHR/ATH
Programs: Amex Platinum, LH SEN (Gold), BA Bronze
Posts: 4,489
Interested in an example of a UK court injuncting a strike that has been legally approved by members. BA has already lost in court on this action once.
https://www.gov.uk/industrial-action...ustrial-action
https://www.gov.uk/industrial-action...ustrial-action