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LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep

LHR/LGW pilots (BALPA) industrial action 9 Sep, 10 Sep, and 27 Sep

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Old Aug 23, 19, 8:25 pm   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Quick answers to FAQ:

Help! What do I do now?
Most importantly, don't panic and don't do anything in haste. Read these FAQ. Read the thread, particularly the posts starting from the time that the strike dates were announced. Identify your options. Think about what works for you. Then take action. If you do anything in haste, you may have thrown away good options, or you may have thrown away money that you needn't have spent.

NOTE: Some emails have been sent out by mistake notifying the cancellation of flights on 8 September and other dates. If your booking still looks OK in MMB then you don't need to take further action. A cancelled flight should be shown in MMB with struck-through text. If your flight details are not struck through, then it probably hasn't actually been cancelled. You could check ba.com to see whether BA is still taking reservations for the flight in question. If so, then the flight has not been cancelled. You may also try checking on ExpertFlyer, if you have access, to see whether your flight appears still to be operating and whether BA is still taking reservations. However, some afternoon/evening flights on 8 September have genuinely been cancelled. See main thread for details.

Has a strike been called yet?
Yes. BALPA, the pilots' union, has voted in favour of strike action, and the Court of Appeal has rejected BA's submission to have the poll set aside, so the legal process is now over. The two parties went back into talks after the legal proceedings and those talks were expected to continue into the week of 5 August.

BALPA on 23 Aug announced strikes on Monday 9 September Tuesday 10 September and Friday 27 September.

Any further strikes normally require 2 weeks notice under UK legislation.

What flights may be affected?
LHR and LGW based flights. Not LCY or STN flights. Both cabin and flight crew are in dispute with BA, but the pilots (captains, senior first officers, first officers) are closest to strike action.

How long would a strike last?
The initial strikes are for two days the a single day, with normal working in between. Any other strikes could be of any length. It would be rare in the UK for there to be a full time strike.

What would happen to my flights if it is a strike day?
A range of options have been announced, see post 1551 below for more information: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/brit...l#post31451055

and BA Trade Site guidance here: https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...kba?faqid=7594

Rebooking is now allowed on Iberia, AA, Finnair, JAL and Qatar. Within Europe EI and Vueling are also allowed. This is for both revenue and redemption flights.

and the FAQ on BA.com here (this includes information on BA Holidays bookings which are substantially different): https://www.britishairways.com/en-gb...st-information

Can I do anything with an existing booking now?
Yes. Your options are different depending on whether your flights are currently showing as cancelled or not. See the links above.

What about Heathrow staff - aren't their strikes planned there too?
Yes there is a separate dispute at the moment between Heathrow Airport (HAL) and their staff such as those who operate the security checkpoints. See the separate thread on the issue.

Am I protected by EC261 if there is a problem?
You are always covered by the Right to Care provisions of Regulation EC261. You could potentially be able to claim compensation for delays, cancellations and downgrades caused by BA staff action too, but not for HAL strikes (for cancellations only if there is flight is less than 14 dayís notice). See the main EC261 thread in the BA Forum Dashboard.
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Old Sep 15, 19, 5:25 pm
  #2176  
 
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Originally Posted by ahmetdouas View Post
Guys seriously they cannot strike more aggressively than they are already, like 3 days a month.

Each strike is considered different! They have only announced 3 strikes anyway, which isn't much so they get away with it. Imagine if they announce many more strikes in October, November and December. That is a whole new ball game.

BA's negotiation strategy doesn't exactly seem to be acting scared of BALPA. I still think BA has more advantage and leverage long term than BALPA in this strike.

Something else came to my mind actually. How many times a year can BA not use their slots at LHR, because obviously when they are not flying they are forfeiting them! Now that would be a fun one, BA not using slots many times because of strikes and risking losing them, then things would really get crazy!
I suspect BA would fine and not lose its slots.
If BA did lose its slots it would be a big own goal by BALPA as BA would have a legitimate reason to lay off loads of pilots.
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Old Sep 15, 19, 5:50 pm
  #2177  
 
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Originally Posted by ahmetdouas View Post
Something else came to my mind actually. How many times a year can BA not use their slots at LHR, because obviously when they are not flying they are forfeiting them! Now that would be a fun one, BA not using slots many times because of strikes and risking losing them, then things would really get crazy!
The EU Regulation regarding slots says the following (with some cutting of a-d for brevity):

5. If the 80 % usage of the series of slots cannot be demonstrated, all the slots constituting that series shall be placed in the slot pool, unless the non-utilization can be justified on the basis of any of the following reasons:

(e) an interruption of a series of services due to action intended to affect these services, which makes it practically and/or technically impossible for the air carrier to carry out operations as planned.

Personally I would consider the slots to be safe (but please note I am not a lawyer!).
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Old Sep 15, 19, 6:07 pm
  #2178  
 
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The pilots could all band together, buy an aircraft, and slowly form their own airline.
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Old Sep 15, 19, 6:23 pm
  #2179  
 
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Originally Posted by adrianlondon View Post
The pilots could all band together, buy an aircraft, and slowly form their own airline.
history has examples of that being done
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Old Sep 15, 19, 6:25 pm
  #2180  
 
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Obviously they would also need an operator licence, engineers, CC, liability insurance...
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Old Sep 15, 19, 6:29 pm
  #2181  
 
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Originally Posted by T8191 View Post
If, as I recall reading many posts ago, pilots are losing substantial (4-figure) sums of money when on strike ... how long are the pilots prepared/able to keep losing money?

That may, indeed, be BA’s tactic. The airline can afford the money, broadly speaking, from lost revenue and, as we see here on FT, they/AC don’t care a lot about public perception or customers.
Yes it's nice to think that all that salami slicing we've endured over the last few years as BA customers has contributed to a strike war chest to inconvenience us even more. But then inconvenience to their passengers is just viewed as collateral damage for BA.
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Old Sep 15, 19, 6:44 pm
  #2182  
 
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Originally Posted by SonTech View Post
And what has that got to do with it? Lots of university graduates leave uni with large debts and most don't get any where near £27k to start with.
Most people know what to expect to pay to do their chosen profession and how long it would take them to pay for it. If you cannot afford to repay the loans then don't do the job in the first place
A lot of the press are quoting average pilots salaries as being in the £160k-£200k mark. Very relevant of course if they chose different careers who would fly the planes.
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Old Sep 15, 19, 6:48 pm
  #2183  
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Originally Posted by ahmetdouas View Post
They can try and strike as often as they want and BA can go to the court as often as they want, I am saying eventually the court may find BALPA's actions abusive and call the strike illegal!
This is national economy we are talking about here to some extent, and going on excessive strike is just being selfish.

I don't mind a few symbolic strikes here and there to get the point across, but striking weeks on end is ridiculous and everyone knows this, but I really doubt it will come to this so we are hypothesising too much.

This is not 1970's Britain, no matter how much the labour party is trying to force the UK to go back to it.
There have been three days of strikes so far and that is 10% of the entire month of September. Thatís hardly unreasonable - let alone abusive - in most peopleís books.

Is 3 days not symbolic enough for you or would it just be one day? How about they all went in strike for an hour immediately before departure? Or for 2 hours? Would that be symbolic enough?

As for your last sentence well that is just ridiculous. Letís keep your politics out of it.
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Old Sep 15, 19, 6:56 pm
  #2184  
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Originally Posted by ahmetdouas View Post
No way, there are many pilots dying to work for BA, if a few resign, BA would absolutely not care, this is not Ryanair. If the whole pilot crew resigned, then yes that would be a problem but we know that won't happen.
Apparently there are 300 pilot vacancies at BA. lack of which has already been causing cancellations of flights.

if there are so many pilots dying to work for BA then why hasnít BA been able to recruit to those vacancies?
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Old Sep 15, 19, 9:05 pm
  #2185  
 
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Don’t feed the trolls.

The ignore poster function works brilliantly
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Old Sep 15, 19, 11:59 pm
  #2186  
 
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Originally Posted by ahmetdouas View Post
They can try and strike as often as they want and BA can go to the court as often as they want, I am saying eventually the court may find BALPA's actions abusive and call the strike illegal!
This is national economy we are talking about here to some extent, and going on excessive strike is just being selfish.

I don't mind a few symbolic strikes here and there to get the point across, but striking weeks on end is ridiculous and everyone knows this, but I really doubt it will come to this so we are hypothesising too much.

This is not 1970's Britain, no matter how much the labour party is trying to force the UK to go back to it.

Last edited by Waterhorse; Sep 19, 19 at 3:39 pm
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Old Sep 16, 19, 1:04 am
  #2187  
 
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Why has everything gone quiet about this in the news? Are discussions happening behind closed doors do we think? Iím concerned it seems like nothing is happening between ba and balpa
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Old Sep 16, 19, 1:18 am
  #2188  
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Originally Posted by lucyjane View Post
Why has everything gone quiet about this in the news?
The only time it's really "news" is on the strike days when people are affected. According to the "in the know" people on here, there's no negotiations at the moment.
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Old Sep 16, 19, 1:18 am
  #2189  
 
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Originally Posted by SonTech View Post
Had that happen in my last 3 jobs I done, I didn't go on strike or moan about as I knew it could happen when I started. If I thought it was a big enough issue I would have changed employer. I suspect I'm not alone in this.
No you're not, I recently took a step back into an individual role after leading EMEA teams for years, the travel was getting stupid and the kids growing up too quickly.

While I wouldn't call it Seniority we all climb the ladder in a company should we wish, I'm not one for titles so couldn't care less is I moved company and went from senior director to office junior so long as the pay and conditions fixed the problem I was moving away from.

The only thing that does carry some favour for my current company, should I consider moving, is with 11 years in I have built a brand there and made some good, senior relationships, I also ha e some protection should it all go tits up and they start offloading people. I guess in some ways that's the same as the pilots 'seniority' problem.
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Old Sep 16, 19, 1:40 am
  #2190  
 
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Originally Posted by T8191 View Post
If, as I recall reading many posts ago, pilots are losing substantial (4-figure) sums of money when on strike ... how long are the pilots prepared/able to keep losing money?
Indeed. Plus travel perks. Iím sure many pilots will have had some personal travel plans disrupted whilst this impasse continues and their perks are... letís say frozen for now, as we all assume they will get the perks back when this is resolved.

Plus the financial impact to their BA colleagues during the strike periods (reduced overtime or whatever the term is).

As stated earlier.. itís corrosive to both parties at the moment. I would love to know what has been offered/negotiated/turned down etc. Without that granular detail itís difficult to form an informed opinion. Also I agree it should be private... just saying!
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