New First Class
#121
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: BAEC Silver, IHG Diamond
Posts: 7,769
If BA want to make the F cabin that bit more exclusive, then reducing redemptions would be the way to go. A full cabin doesn't come across as exclusive if say 4 people are paying, the other 4-12 redeeming Avios earned on credit cards etc.
It's a bit too much like AA where 35 people with SWUs or whatever stick themselves on an upgrade list and a near empty F cabin suddenly is full.
Not sure how BA's books work with regards to finances but cash sales may be treated as a pro over someone redeeming Avios.
Not sure what effect a 8 seat cabin would have on routes such as LAX, HKG, SIN and SYD (maybe Jo'berg as well?). Harder to find than hens' teeth most of the time for the average Joe, and they don't have too much difficulty in filling a cabin at present.
Not being able to redeem F wouldn't really put me off. CW works fine for me in most cases and availability there isn't too bad for a lot of routes I fly (even if I need a little flexibility date wise), with F being an occasional treat, but generally I would blow the Avios on CX, QF or JAL F rather than BA if I wanted a little more of a first class experience.
20-25k to upgrade from WT+ to CW is still an attractive proposition to a lot of us going from a recliner to a flat bed (especially with a well priced fare) with the cash portion earning TPs and Avios to offset the upgrade cost that you wouldn't get for a straight F redemption.
It's a bit too much like AA where 35 people with SWUs or whatever stick themselves on an upgrade list and a near empty F cabin suddenly is full.
Not sure how BA's books work with regards to finances but cash sales may be treated as a pro over someone redeeming Avios.
Not sure what effect a 8 seat cabin would have on routes such as LAX, HKG, SIN and SYD (maybe Jo'berg as well?). Harder to find than hens' teeth most of the time for the average Joe, and they don't have too much difficulty in filling a cabin at present.
Not being able to redeem F wouldn't really put me off. CW works fine for me in most cases and availability there isn't too bad for a lot of routes I fly (even if I need a little flexibility date wise), with F being an occasional treat, but generally I would blow the Avios on CX, QF or JAL F rather than BA if I wanted a little more of a first class experience.
20-25k to upgrade from WT+ to CW is still an attractive proposition to a lot of us going from a recliner to a flat bed (especially with a well priced fare) with the cash portion earning TPs and Avios to offset the upgrade cost that you wouldn't get for a straight F redemption.
#122
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 305
Come on, this is absurd. Do you have a sixth sense that tells you how people paid for their flights? Or perhaps on boarding you survey your fellow passengers about their payment methods, to determine whether your flight is exclusive or not?
#123
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: BAEC Silver, IHG Diamond
Posts: 7,769
I'm just assuming that BA would prefer those paying cold hard cash to those say get a 50k bonus for taking out a credit card etc. Not to say those earning Avios are any less worthy to fly F, but to me running a business, cash would be better on the books than a load of Avios that may have been sold/purchased at a discount.
#124
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: US Air, UA BA LH AI DELTA MARRIOTT CHOICE SGP
Posts: 9,883
Ah what a heavenly thought ! As if the majority living the life of quiet desperation could only do that. I do not know what you do but Utopia does not exist on earth. One has to make compromises, wiegh, balance priorities. It is VERY EASY to say get a job you like ! Even when you own a business or are a CEO of a public company you do not have the luxury of having EVERYTHING THEIR WAY ONLY .
#126
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,146
So a full cabin of <people you don't know> is less exclusive on the basis that <some of them> might have upgraded somehow? Are empty seats creating a more exclusive environment?
I agree with hearingdouble.
#127
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,146
#128
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: Regarded as total and utter snob amongst the BAEC community.
Posts: 971
Ah what a heavenly thought ! As if the majority living the life of quiet desperation could only do that. I do not know what you do but Utopia does not exist on earth. One has to make compromises, wiegh, balance priorities. It is VERY EASY to say get a job you like ! Even when you own a business or are a CEO of a public company you do not have the luxury of having EVERYTHING THEIR WAY ONLY .
I remember someone recently sharing this through socials (I dont know the author to give credit)
You will never have this day with your children again.
Tomorrow they'll be a little older than they were today.
This day is a gift .
Just breath , notice, study their , faces and little feet. Pay attention.
Enjoy today, it will be over before you know it.
Tomorrow they'll be a little older than they were today.
This day is a gift .
Just breath , notice, study their , faces and little feet. Pay attention.
Enjoy today, it will be over before you know it.
#129
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: US Air, UA BA LH AI DELTA MARRIOTT CHOICE SGP
Posts: 9,883
#130
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: Regarded as total and utter snob amongst the BAEC community.
Posts: 971
The snobbery is really rather incredible, I can think of more than enough people rich enough to travel first class on every long haul they take and who I’d certainly not wish to be sharing a small cabin with.
In fact I’d venture as far as to say that us great unwashed travelling on our Tesco earned avios and Amex 241 vouchers would probably not be noticeable at all, let alone bring the purity of the cabin down. We are experiencing an expensive product and would therefore behave accordingly since it’s a treat and not an everyday occurrence.
In fact I’d venture as far as to say that us great unwashed travelling on our Tesco earned avios and Amex 241 vouchers would probably not be noticeable at all, let alone bring the purity of the cabin down. We are experiencing an expensive product and would therefore behave accordingly since it’s a treat and not an everyday occurrence.
#132
Join Date: Jul 2009
Programs: BAEC Silver, IHG Diamond
Posts: 7,769
It's a similar thing to these member only golf and/or Gentleman's Clubs in say London, or even Singapore Airlines Private Club (or whatever it's called) . They're not open to all and sundry and they maintain that element of exclusivity which increases their desirability.
To me, even if full, the 8 seat cabin on the 787-9 feels far more exclusive than the cabin on a 747 or 777. Less people makes for a more intimate environment and you feel a little more "special" being part of it.
#134
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,146
@xenole ... Ah, I get you.
I have long since stopped worrying about being ‘special’, even in the days when I was. My ego doesn’t need that sort of ‘fluffing’. However, each to his own ... from my POV these days the flying is just a case of getting from A to B comfortably, and the hotel is generally just somewhere we want to be for practical reasons rather than ‘exclusivity’. My London Club subscriptions have long expired.
I have long since stopped worrying about being ‘special’, even in the days when I was. My ego doesn’t need that sort of ‘fluffing’. However, each to his own ... from my POV these days the flying is just a case of getting from A to B comfortably, and the hotel is generally just somewhere we want to be for practical reasons rather than ‘exclusivity’. My London Club subscriptions have long expired.
Last edited by T8191; Mar 2, 2019 at 12:01 pm
#135
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: BA - Blue > Bronze > Silver > Bronze > Blue
Posts: 6,812