BA refuses boarding back to UK despite OK from Immigration Authorities
Nov 26, 18, 6:35 am
#76
Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club, easyJet and Ryanair
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... 3. I agree that I'm the main one responsible for this but maintain that BA has some fault for letting me board in the first place. Since they didn't bother to check the validity when I left, why can't they return the same "favour" for my return to the UK? The annoying part is also that my wife mentioned that when she boarded the plane, the guys at the gate were looking at IDs super quickly and wasn't looking like they were checking validity, just for the name to match the ticket. Classic!
The ID check at the departure gate is to verify that the person boarding the aircraft is the same person named in the reservation, the document dates are not verified at that point.
It is so easy when we make mistakes to find a reason to blame someone else for our own shortcomings. That isn't going to help you here. BA's document requirements are very clear and have been kindly posted supra by @LTN Phobia, that requirement is for BA's protection, not yours.
7a) Our right to refuse to carry you
7a15) If you have not, or do not appear to have, valid travel documents.
13a1) You (not us) must:
check the relevant entry requirements for any country you are visiting and
present to us all passports, visas, health certificates and other travel documents needed for your journey.
7a15) If you have not, or do not appear to have, valid travel documents.
13a1) You (not us) must:
check the relevant entry requirements for any country you are visiting and
present to us all passports, visas, health certificates and other travel documents needed for your journey.
Fortunately for you, EU law is on your side regarding your right to free movement, @simons1 quoted the relevant passage from Article 5 of EC38/2004 above. I suggest presenting yourself to the airline of your choice armed with that information and ask the airline (before purchasing your ticket) if they would call the UK authorities to clear you for arrival. The UK requires airlines to provide TDI (API) (s27B Immigration Act 1971) so booking travel without any valid travel document will lead to the same problem you experienced with BA. Do bear in mind that EC38/2004 applies to EU/EEA states (and their immigration authorities) and not to airlines so you will need to bring this Regulation to their attention and ask them to contact the UK Border Force to clear your departure.
I would stop trying to apportion blame rather concentrate on the resolution. I wish you luck.
Last edited by Tobias-UK; Nov 26, 18 at 6:42 am Reason: Fat fingers
Nov 26, 18, 6:37 am
#77
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Posts: 22,098
Expired ID card + lack of Residence Card (without a really good reason like theft that has been reported to the police and with documentary evidence of having done so) would probably not go down well at the UK border.
I am not surprised that BA is not allowing the OP to travel given the lack of suitable travel documents.
Nov 26, 18, 6:41 am
#78
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 231
1. I never said I KNOWINGLY exited the UK with an invalid ID. I ALWAYS travel with my passport, I know exactly when my passport expires. Because the passport was not with me at the time, I decided to take my EU ID....I Forgot to check the expiration date. Probably because in my mind I had this idea that my passport is 5 years away from expiring. Who knows, anyway my fault for not checking the validity. I only discovered the ID was invalid upon arrival in Hungary.
https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g187234-i138-k12126563-Nice_Airport_Passport_Control-Nice_French_Riviera_Cote_d_Azur_Provence_Alpes_Cot e_d_Azur.html#96
Nov 26, 18, 6:47 am
#79
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 22
Maybe your problem is that you have some sort of memory issue. You should take a look back at your posts from before you left on your trip...
https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopi...d_Azur.html#96
https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopi...d_Azur.html#96
Nov 26, 18, 6:48 am
#80
Join Date: Feb 2011
Programs: BA blue,, aeroplan 25K
Posts: 1,017
This is surprisingly simple to sort out. The rules state that you cannot travel without adequate documents, so there is no way that an airline will consider carriage, It makes no difference that you are willing to pay the fine - it's not just the money but the repuational damage too, that they knowingly broke the law on the basis that someone else would pay the fine. The law doesn't work like that.
You need an emergency travel document, which can be obtained from your consulate. If you need a birth certificate for that and it sounds like you do, then the best way is to get your wife to fly it out immediately. If you're willing to pay £3000 as a fine, then a ticket to Budapest is clearly a massive saving. She could have done that first thing today, and you could have applied for the document today.
Someone's else picking your passport up is probably going to be problematic.
One further thing, photocopies/photos of documents are almost always, not considered acceptable. You need the original.
You need an emergency travel document, which can be obtained from your consulate. If you need a birth certificate for that and it sounds like you do, then the best way is to get your wife to fly it out immediately. If you're willing to pay £3000 as a fine, then a ticket to Budapest is clearly a massive saving. She could have done that first thing today, and you could have applied for the document today.
Someone's else picking your passport up is probably going to be problematic.
One further thing, photocopies/photos of documents are almost always, not considered acceptable. You need the original.
Nov 26, 18, 6:49 am
#81
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
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Posts: 2,525
Probably because the OP is not carrying evidence of his permanent residency either, because he left his residence card at home.
Expired ID card + lack of Residence Card (without a really good reason like theft that has been reported to the police and with documentary evidence of having done so) would probably not go down well at the UK border.
I am not surprised that BA is not allowing the OP to travel given the lack of suitable travel documents.
Expired ID card + lack of Residence Card (without a really good reason like theft that has been reported to the police and with documentary evidence of having done so) would probably not go down well at the UK border.
I am not surprised that BA is not allowing the OP to travel given the lack of suitable travel documents.
Nov 26, 18, 6:50 am
#82
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: London, UK and Southern France
Posts: 18,054
Under EU rules, documents such as passports and ID cards only have evidentiary value. They are not a condition of access to the country. If an individual is in a position to establish that he is an EU national by any other means, then entry to another EU Member State cannot be refused. There is a case decided by the CJEU a long time ago (Giagounidis is the name of the case) regarding a Greek national with a Greek identity card which, at the time at any rate, was only valid within Greece and did not allow the holder to travel. The Court found that Germany could not deny entry and residence on its territory with someone in possession of such a document, since it established that the individual was a Greek national and therefore an EU citizen entitled to free movement.
I would have thought that the same would be true of an expired ID card, as long as we are not talking of an ID card that expired eons ago. If so and if the OP was refused access to the plane with such a document, it seems to me that this would be: (1) either because BA consulted UK immigration and UK immigration said no, in which case UK immigration are prima facie in breach of EU law or (2) BA did not contact UK immigration or contacted them and refused entry despite UK immigration saying yes, in which case BA would seem prima facie to be in breach of its CoC as the OP had sufficient documentation to enable him to travel.
I would have thought that the same would be true of an expired ID card, as long as we are not talking of an ID card that expired eons ago. If so and if the OP was refused access to the plane with such a document, it seems to me that this would be: (1) either because BA consulted UK immigration and UK immigration said no, in which case UK immigration are prima facie in breach of EU law or (2) BA did not contact UK immigration or contacted them and refused entry despite UK immigration saying yes, in which case BA would seem prima facie to be in breach of its CoC as the OP had sufficient documentation to enable him to travel.
Nov 26, 18, 6:52 am
#83
Moderator: British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: Battleaxe Alliance
Posts: 22,098
This has nothing to do with BA. It's all to do with Home Office issuing the reference number for the pax to travel. BA won't let the pax board without Home Office authorisation. However the Home Office should provide the reference when presented with the situation by the airline and some minimal evidence the pax in question is who he portrays to be. They can easily check if the pax in question is a permanent resident, and, in fact, permanent residency is not required to be issued with permission to return home as long as the person normally resides in the UK.
So, that would be a legitimate reason for BA not allowing the OP to travel:
[- snipped -] BA handler agent then disappears and comes back 30 min later saying bad news, “UK border is refusing to give us a reference code for you coming to LHR”. I smell total BS after I ask him what phone number he contacted. He tells me he can’t give the number because only BA can have it. Really? [- snipped-]
Last edited by LTN Phobia; Nov 26, 18 at 7:17 am
Nov 26, 18, 6:52 am
#84
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: LCY / LHR / ZRH / JNB
Programs: BA
Posts: 114
I am confused by the discussion here of BA’s eligibility-to-enter checks, on the original outbound short-haul flight.
I often travel hand-baggage only, departing London.
I know that when travelling long-haul, I must always attend the passport check desk first, where my eligibility to enter through the border at my destination is checked.
But on short-haul from London, this check does not seem to be required, and I never undergo it. On more than one one sad occasion, this has caused me to discover only at the gate that I have forgotten my passport altogether, when I looked for it to prove my identity (though not border entry eligibility) whilst boarding.
What is the original eligibility-to-enter check here, that the OP claims BA has failed to correctly perform? I am not sure this is actually a check that is done at all, is it? Or perhaps it somehow happens behind the scenes.
T
I often travel hand-baggage only, departing London.
I know that when travelling long-haul, I must always attend the passport check desk first, where my eligibility to enter through the border at my destination is checked.
But on short-haul from London, this check does not seem to be required, and I never undergo it. On more than one one sad occasion, this has caused me to discover only at the gate that I have forgotten my passport altogether, when I looked for it to prove my identity (though not border entry eligibility) whilst boarding.
What is the original eligibility-to-enter check here, that the OP claims BA has failed to correctly perform? I am not sure this is actually a check that is done at all, is it? Or perhaps it somehow happens behind the scenes.
T
Nov 26, 18, 6:56 am
#86
Join Date: Dec 2016
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From experience of travelling with a non-EU resident (my wife), she will either have to present herself at a check in or transfer desk, very occasionally she has a visa check at the gate.
For EU flights as an EU resident (as is the OP) your ID is checked at the gate or at a passport booth when going from Schengen to non-Schengen, but the checks are less stringent (and I would guess that the boarding checks are less stringent than the booth checks).
So checks are essentially different depending on circumstance. You'd find the same if you were travelling to the US or China for example.
For EU flights as an EU resident (as is the OP) your ID is checked at the gate or at a passport booth when going from Schengen to non-Schengen, but the checks are less stringent (and I would guess that the boarding checks are less stringent than the booth checks).
So checks are essentially different depending on circumstance. You'd find the same if you were travelling to the US or China for example.
Nov 26, 18, 7:01 am
#87
Join Date: Dec 2016
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Posts: 4,911
Date on the TA post is the 24th, i.e. after the check at the border and what led from that, and so presumably he was looking at options. Where I agree the OP needs to own this personally, best to avoid being too judgemental maybe?
Nov 26, 18, 7:13 am
#88
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,019
For the OP’s info, last year I walked from Hook of Holland to Nice; this year from Trieste to Nice. Despite crossing numerous borders, I never showed any ID. 
Nov 26, 18, 7:19 am
#89
Join Date: Sep 2005
Programs: AC MM E50 , Former SPG, now Marriott LT Plat
Posts: 6,057
I fail to see why the fact that BA accepted the ID on the outbound has any relevance whatsoever.
If OP had flown to Hungary with another airline that did accept the expired ID , and only the return was booked on BA;
what difference would that make to their refusal to board for the return?
If OP had flown to Hungary with another airline that did accept the expired ID , and only the return was booked on BA;
what difference would that make to their refusal to board for the return?
Nov 26, 18, 7:20 am
#90
Join Date: Nov 2018
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 624
Under EU rules, documents such as passports and ID cards only have evidentiary value. They are not a condition of access to the country. If an individual is in a position to establish that he is an EU national by any other means, then entry to another EU Member State cannot be refused. There is a case decided by the CJEU a long time ago (Giagounidis is the name of the case) regarding a Greek national with a Greek identity card which, at the time at any rate, was only valid within Greece and did not allow the holder to travel. The Court found that Germany could not deny entry and residence on its territory with someone in possession of such a document, since it established that the individual was a Greek national and therefore an EU citizen entitled to free movement.
I would have thought that the same would be true of an expired ID card, as long as we are not talking of an ID card that expired eons ago. If so and if the OP was refused access to the plane with such a document, it seems to me that this would be: (1) either because BA consulted UK immigration and UK immigration said no, in which case UK immigration are prima facie in breach of EU law or (2) BA did not contact UK immigration or contacted them and refused entry despite UK immigration saying yes, in which case BA would seem prima facie to be in breach of its CoC as the OP had sufficient documentation to enable him to travel.
I would have thought that the same would be true of an expired ID card, as long as we are not talking of an ID card that expired eons ago. If so and if the OP was refused access to the plane with such a document, it seems to me that this would be: (1) either because BA consulted UK immigration and UK immigration said no, in which case UK immigration are prima facie in breach of EU law or (2) BA did not contact UK immigration or contacted them and refused entry despite UK immigration saying yes, in which case BA would seem prima facie to be in breach of its CoC as the OP had sufficient documentation to enable him to travel.
UK immigration's advice would be to refuse travel and advise the person to obtain an emergency travel document. Note, they are not denying entry as it hasn't got that far. They can hardly be expected to grant entry remotely and therefore advise BA to let the person travel, except in very very exceptional circumstances. Once they've established his EU identity then he will be allowed entry.
He needs an emergency travel document.
