Apr 5, 2018, 3:58 am
Last edit by: Globaliser
In April 2018 BA announced that they had started a programme to refurbish the cabins on the Mid-J 747-400 fleet. In January 2020, this programme was completed.
As part of the refurbishment all of the aircraft involved have undergone a basic refresh which consisted of:
* Full aircraft deep clean
* Seats in WT/WTP refurbished with new seat foams and cushions as on Super Hi-J aircraft
9 of the aircraft received an ENHANCED refurbishment to bring the cabin up to the same standard as the Super Hi-J 747-400 fleet. This consisted of what is listed above plus:
* New carpets fitted throughout
* All curtains replaced
* New Panasonic IFE fitted in all classes
Note: It was initially believed that the enhanced refurbishment included LED mood lighting throughout, but this is not the case. All retained standard lighting. There were no plans to install WiFi to any Mid-J configured 747-400 aircraft.
Note: Aircraft that have undergone an ENHANCED refurbishment are shown in red
Aircraft are listed below in the order that they were refurbished and show return to service date, along with retirement date where applicable.
G-CIVU - 11 October 2019
G-BNLY - 24 November 2019
Mid-J 747 Cabin Refresh
Apr 14, 2018, 12:09 pm
#61
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,771
Well I presume (hope) a deep clean is part of the normal heavy maintenance cycle in Cardiff anyway, so it seems the only 'investment' item for these dying birds is the Y/Y+ covers.
Apr 21, 2018, 4:43 pm
#65
Join Date: Nov 2017
Programs: BAEC, AerClub
Posts: 134
That's what I'm expecting,
However, I am just hoping it won't be one of the really old (1990 or 1993 or 1994) birds, as I had a couple of flights on these last year and they really are in an embarrassingly dire state. I would go so far as to say they are literally falling apart internally - I was in the F galley for a while talking to a crew member, and some wall panels were coming apart with insulation material hanging out.
On another flight the well documented IFE issues arose, with the system having to be rebooted several times during the flight.
However, I am just hoping it won't be one of the really old (1990 or 1993 or 1994) birds, as I had a couple of flights on these last year and they really are in an embarrassingly dire state. I would go so far as to say they are literally falling apart internally - I was in the F galley for a while talking to a crew member, and some wall panels were coming apart with insulation material hanging out.
On another flight the well documented IFE issues arose, with the system having to be rebooted several times during the flight.
Last edited by FinnRolo; Apr 21, 2018 at 4:53 pm
Apr 22, 2018, 1:50 am
#66
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,237
I'll try and make a bit of clarity, here, with regards to this refresh.
The first aircrafts to be refurbished between now and the summer will not have the new IFE. This is because they haven't got enough life, in them, to justify the investment. As others have said, an IFE can potentially be recycled and then put onto another aircraft, but a lot of the wiring is lost and it's a hell of a job. So "all" these birds are getting are a lot of clearing of defects, thorough inspections, an overhaul of every moving part of seats and so on, new foams, new curtains, new seat cushions and that's basically it. Had it been me I'd have worded the communications differently, something on the lines of "9 aircrafts get new IFE and another 7 get a good scrub" but hey, there's a reason why I've always failed marketing classes.
These birds, even those receiving the IFE, won't get the new-er, 380/787/74S, Club seat (the one grey and white). Not entirely sure about mood lightning either. This piece of work has been authorised as a simple, stop-gap solution since the introduction of the 74S has really revealed what a massive gap exists, in customer's perception, between those and the Mid-Js, chiefly for the IFE and cleanliness.
Some have mentioned that the time to re-fit these planes is quite a long time indeed, but the truth is that it's done to fit in the normal calendar of maintenance. There isn't a) the space at BAMC b) the downtime and c) the extra aircrafts to cover for those birds if it was done quicker; in fact, I'm personally finding it surprising it's still going ahead, given the bad news coming out of Derby with regards to the 787. For instance -BJE has been in "paperweight" mode since, well, God knows when and even more planes will need to have their powerplants checked.
Wi-Fi is a separate piece of work, I'm afraid. I think it does happen, when it's possible, in conjunction with scheduled maintenance (don't quote me on that but I believe that the 380s doing their heavies over in Manila by Lufthansa Technik are having it fitted) but sometimes it's too much to fit into a packed maintenance schedule, or the necessary spares/infrastructure cannot be mobilised, so it's done separately. I know there's a tendency, on these pages, to think BA Engineering is rather bureaucratic and that lateral thinking doesn't abound but it really isn't. If it makes sense, saves money/time/effort and helps the customers they'll do their damnedest to make it happen.
All this is based on my knowledge and it's not BA's opinion.
The first aircrafts to be refurbished between now and the summer will not have the new IFE. This is because they haven't got enough life, in them, to justify the investment. As others have said, an IFE can potentially be recycled and then put onto another aircraft, but a lot of the wiring is lost and it's a hell of a job. So "all" these birds are getting are a lot of clearing of defects, thorough inspections, an overhaul of every moving part of seats and so on, new foams, new curtains, new seat cushions and that's basically it. Had it been me I'd have worded the communications differently, something on the lines of "9 aircrafts get new IFE and another 7 get a good scrub" but hey, there's a reason why I've always failed marketing classes.
These birds, even those receiving the IFE, won't get the new-er, 380/787/74S, Club seat (the one grey and white). Not entirely sure about mood lightning either. This piece of work has been authorised as a simple, stop-gap solution since the introduction of the 74S has really revealed what a massive gap exists, in customer's perception, between those and the Mid-Js, chiefly for the IFE and cleanliness.
Some have mentioned that the time to re-fit these planes is quite a long time indeed, but the truth is that it's done to fit in the normal calendar of maintenance. There isn't a) the space at BAMC b) the downtime and c) the extra aircrafts to cover for those birds if it was done quicker; in fact, I'm personally finding it surprising it's still going ahead, given the bad news coming out of Derby with regards to the 787. For instance -BJE has been in "paperweight" mode since, well, God knows when and even more planes will need to have their powerplants checked.
Wi-Fi is a separate piece of work, I'm afraid. I think it does happen, when it's possible, in conjunction with scheduled maintenance (don't quote me on that but I believe that the 380s doing their heavies over in Manila by Lufthansa Technik are having it fitted) but sometimes it's too much to fit into a packed maintenance schedule, or the necessary spares/infrastructure cannot be mobilised, so it's done separately. I know there's a tendency, on these pages, to think BA Engineering is rather bureaucratic and that lateral thinking doesn't abound but it really isn't. If it makes sense, saves money/time/effort and helps the customers they'll do their damnedest to make it happen.
All this is based on my knowledge and it's not BA's opinion.
Apr 22, 2018, 1:56 am
#67
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Programs: BA Lifetime Gold; Flying Blue Life Platinum; LH Sen.; Hilton Diamond; Kemal Kebabs Prized Customer
Posts: 63,819
Indeed this makes it a lot clearer, thank you for that. Do you have a list of the 9? If not @Globaliser can perhaps work it out....
Apr 22, 2018, 2:07 am
#68
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,237
Indeed this makes it a lot clearer, thank you for that. Do you have a list of the 9? If not @Globaliser can perhaps work it out....
Apr 22, 2018, 2:08 am
#69
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,656
I'll try and make a bit of clarity, here, with regards to this refresh.
The first aircrafts to be refurbished between now and the summer will not have the new IFE. This is because they haven't got enough life, in them, to justify the investment. As others have said, an IFE can potentially be recycled and then put onto another aircraft, but a lot of the wiring is lost and it's a hell of a job. So "all" these birds are getting are a lot of clearing of defects, thorough inspections, an overhaul of every moving part of seats and so on, new foams, new curtains, new seat cushions and that's basically it. Had it been me I'd have worded the communications differently, something on the lines of "9 aircrafts get new IFE and another 7 get a good scrub" but hey, there's a reason why I've always failed marketing classes.
The first aircrafts to be refurbished between now and the summer will not have the new IFE. This is because they haven't got enough life, in them, to justify the investment. As others have said, an IFE can potentially be recycled and then put onto another aircraft, but a lot of the wiring is lost and it's a hell of a job. So "all" these birds are getting are a lot of clearing of defects, thorough inspections, an overhaul of every moving part of seats and so on, new foams, new curtains, new seat cushions and that's basically it. Had it been me I'd have worded the communications differently, something on the lines of "9 aircrafts get new IFE and another 7 get a good scrub" but hey, there's a reason why I've always failed marketing classes.
What I don’t understand is why BA let them get into such a state in the first place. I flew to DFW and back over Easter and put simply they were decrepit, bordering on disgusting. I filled in the survey I got after the flight so hopefully it will get noted.
Apr 22, 2018, 2:20 am
#70
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,771
Firstly thanks @13900 for the detail and clarification.
The view I would take is that such a gap shouldn't have been allowed to arise in the first place. We have known the state of these aircraft for a long time, and I think a decision should have been taken to make at least some improvements to them some years ago. Even if that was just the minimal 'scrub' they're doing now. As it is, they have left it so late that the damage is already done - perception of BA's product in markets served by these aircraft I would guess is pretty bad.
[ETA: as Dave_C said!]
[ETA: as Dave_C said!]
Apr 22, 2018, 2:34 am
#71
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,237
Huge thanks for the very informative post.
What I don’t understand is why BA let them get into such a state in the first place. I flew to DFW and back over Easter and put simply they were decrepit, bordering on disgusting. I filled in the survey I got after the flight so hopefully it will get noted.
What I don’t understand is why BA let them get into such a state in the first place. I flew to DFW and back over Easter and put simply they were decrepit, bordering on disgusting. I filled in the survey I got after the flight so hopefully it will get noted.
Firstly thanks @13900 for the detail and clarification.
The view I would take is that such a gap shouldn't have been allowed to arise in the first place. We have known the state of these aircraft for a long time, and I think a decision should have been taken to make at least some improvements to them some years ago. Even if that was just the minimal 'scrub' they're doing now. As it is, they have left it so late that the damage is already done - perception of BA's product in markets served by these aircraft I would guess is pretty bad.
[ETA: as Dave_C said!]
The view I would take is that such a gap shouldn't have been allowed to arise in the first place. We have known the state of these aircraft for a long time, and I think a decision should have been taken to make at least some improvements to them some years ago. Even if that was just the minimal 'scrub' they're doing now. As it is, they have left it so late that the damage is already done - perception of BA's product in markets served by these aircraft I would guess is pretty bad.
[ETA: as Dave_C said!]
As with most things, there are multiple reasons. Bureaucracy aside - as with many large corporations, getting money and spending it requires a lot of time & effort - it's a mixture of different factors behind the state the Mid-Js are in. For starter they fly some of the 'worst' routes; I don't wish to offend anyone, but the Vegas route ought to be served with a plane just made of stainless steel, to be washed with a high-pressure hose after each flight. I worked six months as an aircraft cleaning supervisor and the amount - and diversity! - of bodily fluids we've seen after a rowdy LAS-LHR is astounding. It's unfortunately true, but I've seen - day in day out - situations where the same aircraft type goes to Japan and returns spotless; goes elsewhere and it returns good for the scrap heap.
Secondly, they don't get a lot of downtime. Believe it or not, just shampooing (yes, it's called shampooing!) the carpets of an aircraft takes six hours, and can't be done with engineers on board. It's the same issue of the LGW birds, by the way. Then there's the old issue of cost. Keep the OPEX as little as possible and, inevitably, you'll have to invest a hell of a lot of CAPEX to recover the crappy situation that the small expenditure on OPEX has led to.
All this is based on my experience and is my view, not BA's.
Apr 22, 2018, 2:34 am
#72
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5,656
Firstly thanks @13900 for the detail and clarification.
The view I would take is that such a gap shouldn't have been allowed to arise in the first place. We have known the state of these aircraft for a long time, and I think a decision should have been taken to make at least some improvements to them some years ago. Even if that was just the minimal 'scrub' they're doing now. As it is, they have left it so late that the damage is already done - perception of BA's product in markets served by these aircraft I would guess is pretty bad.
[ETA: as Dave_C said!]
The view I would take is that such a gap shouldn't have been allowed to arise in the first place. We have known the state of these aircraft for a long time, and I think a decision should have been taken to make at least some improvements to them some years ago. Even if that was just the minimal 'scrub' they're doing now. As it is, they have left it so late that the damage is already done - perception of BA's product in markets served by these aircraft I would guess is pretty bad.
[ETA: as Dave_C said!]
I’ve even gone so far as to have a United Polaris booking (on a 77W) which I have some quite low expectations of. LH and LX first is outstanding, and I’m looking forward to my first AC sectors in a long time in June, especially with the new signature service they’ve introduced.
But I’ll be SEN by September, and so far not regretting my decision in the slightest.
WW always wanted people to show him the money, well that’s what I’m doing now.
Last edited by Prospero; Apr 22, 2018 at 5:30 am Reason: to comply with Rule 16
Apr 22, 2018, 3:57 am
#73
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: AUS, GVA, and in between
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 178
Apr 22, 2018, 4:22 am
#74
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: near Heathrow
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL (OWE), SA LifePlat (*G), BD Gold to the end, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,911
Bringing your own plastic seat cover, antiseptic wipes and rubber gloves would seem to be the new order of the day when flying this sub-fleet @superweak!
Perhaps BA could provide aircraft specific amenity kits
Last edited by gcuk; Apr 22, 2018 at 4:28 am
