Apr 5, 2018, 3:58 am
Last edit by: Globaliser
In April 2018 BA announced that they had started a programme to refurbish the cabins on the Mid-J 747-400 fleet. In January 2020, this programme was completed.
As part of the refurbishment all of the aircraft involved have undergone a basic refresh which consisted of:
* Full aircraft deep clean
* Seats in WT/WTP refurbished with new seat foams and cushions as on Super Hi-J aircraft
9 of the aircraft received an ENHANCED refurbishment to bring the cabin up to the same standard as the Super Hi-J 747-400 fleet. This consisted of what is listed above plus:
* New carpets fitted throughout
* All curtains replaced
* New Panasonic IFE fitted in all classes
Note: It was initially believed that the enhanced refurbishment included LED mood lighting throughout, but this is not the case. All retained standard lighting. There were no plans to install WiFi to any Mid-J configured 747-400 aircraft.
Note: Aircraft that have undergone an ENHANCED refurbishment are shown in red
Aircraft are listed below in the order that they were refurbished and show return to service date, along with retirement date where applicable.
G-CIVU - 11 October 2019
G-BNLY - 24 November 2019
Mid-J 747 Cabin Refresh
Jul 1, 2018, 2:06 am
#136
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
The deep clean/refresh is done during the normal Engineering checks timetable, so there's no need to stop the plane ad-hoc. There are, from memory, 16 Mid-Js. Originally (and I mean when the decision to change the Hi-J into Super Hi-Js with the new IFE) the Mids weren't meant to stay for long and were meant to be gone by 2020; then fleet plans changed, albeit ever so slightly, and now 9 (I think, just quoting from memory of old discussions) will remain for longer - how much longer, don't ask! - and will therefore get a new IFE. Since an IFE change is a fairly long piece of work, and with so many 787s lying around LHR without engines, this job cannot be done during the summer.
Replacements aren't done on a 1:1 basis. At the moment, the 747s are being replaced by a mixture of 788, 789, 78K and 35K. It's impossible to say that, say, Vegas, will be in the long run be run by a 35K in lieu of a 744. In fairness, fleet plans are constantly reviewed, as well as each season's flying is.
All these are my opinion and not BA's.
Replacements aren't done on a 1:1 basis. At the moment, the 747s are being replaced by a mixture of 788, 789, 78K and 35K. It's impossible to say that, say, Vegas, will be in the long run be run by a 35K in lieu of a 744. In fairness, fleet plans are constantly reviewed, as well as each season's flying is.
All these are my opinion and not BA's.
Jul 1, 2018, 2:36 am
#137
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,237
The thing is, these 747s are going because they are close to reaching the number of cycles that BA deems to be maximum for their lifespan, or because they're about to require a heavy (C2, or D) check that represents an investment too high for a machine which will then have to be phased out after a short time of flying. You cannot extend their life forever.
Jul 1, 2018, 4:01 am
#138
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,596
I honestly fail to see your point! Even assuming that the 787 engine problem is going to continue beyond the summer (which RR is betting that it isn't, but we all know how much a RR bet is worth), and even assuming that no new wet leases can be done, or that no new planes are to be sourced and the older Mid-Js are to be kept going for another year, it doesn't mean that the IFE can be justified, or that the downtime for these planes can be found so that they can be fitted with a new piece of equipment.
The thing is, these 747s are going because they are close to reaching the number of cycles that BA deems to be maximum for their lifespan, or because they're about to require a heavy (C2, or D) check that represents an investment too high for a machine which will then have to be phased out after a short time of flying. You cannot extend their life forever.
The thing is, these 747s are going because they are close to reaching the number of cycles that BA deems to be maximum for their lifespan, or because they're about to require a heavy (C2, or D) check that represents an investment too high for a machine which will then have to be phased out after a short time of flying. You cannot extend their life forever.
Jul 3, 2018, 2:31 am
#140
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5,380
The B787 engine problems will run to the middle of next year, The A350's dont come until next year, so BA will have a choice.Lease in more aircraft, get rid of some slots or perform the required C and D checks. They have already not retired the aircraft due to retire last November, so it will be interesting to see what they do next. I would be willing to bet the B747's will soldier on a couple of years longer than last years plan.
Jul 3, 2018, 3:05 am
#141
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Sussex by the Sea
Programs: BA Silver, for now at least...
Posts: 581
Was on G-BNLN back from LAS the other night, the upstairs cabin was in a shocking state. Side panels haning off, cubby holes half broken. And as for the IFE, it is so shockingly out of date now it is beyond a joke.
I love the upper deck as much as anyone, but these old birds are well past their sell-by date. I just pray that the mechanicals are better maintained than the internals...
I love the upper deck as much as anyone, but these old birds are well past their sell-by date. I just pray that the mechanicals are better maintained than the internals...
Jul 5, 2018, 4:33 am
#142
Join Date: Nov 2017
Programs: BAEC, AerClub
Posts: 134
Was on G-BNLN back from LAS the other night, the upstairs cabin was in a shocking state. Side panels haning off, cubby holes half broken. And as for the IFE, it is so shockingly out of date now it is beyond a joke.
I love the upper deck as much as anyone, but these old birds are well past their sell-by date. I just pray that the mechanicals are better maintained than the internals...
I love the upper deck as much as anyone, but these old birds are well past their sell-by date. I just pray that the mechanicals are better maintained than the internals...
In my opinion it really should have been retired already, as from personal experience, I can certainly agree that the older 744s are in a dire state.
I see that G-BNLN is due to be taken out of service next July, and the other two 1990 registered 744s should be gone before the end of this year. See:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/27571616-post1689.html
Jul 8, 2018, 1:13 pm
#143
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: UK
Programs: BAEC Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 870
Used G-BNLN to New York a few days ago and it was both dirty ( used napkins, previous flight menus and empty drinks bottles) with crumbs on seats and floors. Panels damaged and falling off, multiple overhead bins not in use and broken toilet.
I was actually shocked they think this is acceptable considering the EX LHR JFK fares.
I am not actively going to avoid any Mid J 747.
I was actually shocked they think this is acceptable considering the EX LHR JFK fares.
I am not actively going to avoid any Mid J 747.
Jul 8, 2018, 2:16 pm
#144
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: BAEC
Posts: 229
Used G-BNLN to New York a few days ago and it was both dirty ( used napkins, previous flight menus and empty drinks bottles) with crumbs on seats and floors. Panels damaged and falling off, multiple overhead bins not in use and broken toilet.
I was actually shocked they think this is acceptable considering the EX LHR JFK fares.
I am not actively going to avoid any Mid J 747.
I was actually shocked they think this is acceptable considering the EX LHR JFK fares.
I am not actively going to avoid any Mid J 747.
Jul 8, 2018, 2:49 pm
#145
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: United Kingdom
Programs: BAEC Blue, Flying Blue Silver, Hilton Gold, Marriot Gold
Posts: 817
My first BA flight was PHX-LHR in 2009. UD 747 ... man was that a treat. We do the flight about once a year and what a disappointment the plane has become. It used to seem so glamorous .... and now it's really outdated. The flight is convenient though so I'm not likely to switch.
When do you see an unrefurbished BA aircraft going east bound to places like Singapore or Hong Kong? They have to keep a half tidy product to compete.
Jul 9, 2018, 6:44 am
#146
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: UK
Programs: BAEC Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 870
That’s the problem with some of these routes and PHX is a prime example. BA have little or no competition so the cabin doesn’t matter.
When do you see an unrefurbished BA aircraft going east bound to places like Singapore or Hong Kong? They have to keep a half tidy product to compete.
Jul 9, 2018, 11:55 am
#148
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Programs: Mucci. Nothing else matters.
Posts: 38,644
If you want historical information, flightradar24 will provide some recent information and the BA Source has a database stretching back much longer, although it sometimes doesn't update the most recent entries as quickly.
Jul 9, 2018, 12:55 pm
#149
Join Date: May 2007
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 5,459
Do a dummy booking for J class. If the seatmap shows lower deck J as rows 17-20 alone, then you'll be on a mid-J 747 (the subject of this thread). If it covers rows 12-22, then you'll be on a refurbished super-hi-J.