HIDDY

They might not be worth listening to.

srbrenna

Then they are a cost that should be cut

Calchas

deleted

Calchas

James Dove had a similar case recently, where he missed the outbound flight, and Iberia refused to refund the return component of his ticket or allow him to use it for travel.

He sued them for a refund of his unusable flight coupon at London county court, on the basis that the contract term was unfair [as it required him to pay a disproportionate sum to the trader for non-performance of the contract], and won. See http://www.harcourtchambers.co.uk/Im...vevIberia.docx

The London County Court is not a court of record and its reasoning may or may not be followed in other cases.

PUCCI GALORE

I agree. I agree also with the notion that someone put forward that this article appearing in the TST is not good news for BA. It appears to be written by someone who has no axe to grind, appears to be knowledgeable and who makes points that are very salient.

I am not getting involved in the arguments above as I simply do not know enough about what happens at the competition. What I am certain of is that if enough people do take their premium business elsewhere, that and that alone will move them. It happened at Ryanair where there has been a drastic change in attitude towards the customer after people got sick of the treatment there.

The Bottom Line is all that they understand and until that base is shaken, little will change. We keep saying that they don't care - what we do not examine in enough depth is why. My answer is that the money is pouring in so they think that whatever they do, no one will notice or care.

nwmgc

As someone has posted on the ST site comments, "If it works, maybe Poundland and Harrods will open a shop together."

lost_in_translation

If the genuine intention is to go down both low cost and premium routes at the same time (as opposed to just making everything cheaper by the back door, which seems to still be the direction of travel to me!), it's quite clear that separate brands are required. The BA brand can't be both a budget and premium carrier at the same time.

HIDDY

It's always been both....only difference being it's just become an even cheaper one to fly with.
Be careful what you wish for.

lost_in_translation

Actually, no, it hasn't. There's a big difference between BA's erstwhile Y offering and outright 'budget'.

T8191

I'm not sure the I have a problem with the "mixed operation" concept. Indeed, that idea entered my head many months ago, when all the hoo-hah started.

Why can't the Economy Cabin be made cheap and austere [more than it is already] to complete with the LoCos on price and take fullest advantage of BA's route network? Isn't that why it's called Economy? In front of the figurative curtain, BA can continue to operate Premium services [improved on what they are now] for those willing to pay for the experience.

Don't we already see the basic elements of Budget and Premium differentiation already, when comparing World Traveller and Club World? I agree that it would be harder to apply on shorthaul operations, given the efficiency provided by the 'moving curtain', but that's not necessarily 'set in stone' [to mix a metaphor]. Upgrade CE by providing, say 4-5 rows of proper seating with decent pitch, like AA's Domestic First. Economise as much as you dare in ET to compete on price.

One aircraft, one crew, two different loads of pax and two different price structures ... why is that impossible? It already exists!

Calchas

lost_in_translation

Many (almost all?) brands operate with product and service ranges across multiple price points, including airlines. Premium and budget, however, say something about where a product range and company sits in customers' minds vs. the competitors in the wider market, rather than just where they sit in a company's internal product line up.

There are plenty of case studies to show it is very difficult for a company to maintain the impression with customers that their brand is able to provide the lowest prices *and* a luxurious product, depending on what customers prioritise. The point I'm making isn't that BA can't provide both a cheaper product and an expensive one, it's that they will struggle to not end up with a muddied Tesco-style brand which effectively doesn't really stand for anything anymore if they try to make the BA brand appeal to both the most budget-conscious and those looking for a high-end product.

Cap'n Benj

I agree, there is obviously an appetite for cheap as possible fares and there is no reason why BA can not sate this whilst providing a higher level of service further up the plane.

There is non reason why Y can not be cut to the bare bones, with bags, food, WIFI etc available to those who wish to pay more, whilst W and J have their service levels increased, if there is the market there for people happy to pay more for it.

I would love to see some hard numbers on VS' vs Norwegian's numbers from BOS this year, as my (admittedly low, annecdotal, data points (3)) and a look at the check-in queues, suggest that VS is getting an absolute battering selling on the 'frills' concept, despite the fact there is not a huge discrepancy in price.

Swissroll

The last time BA went true low cost they created a complete separation of product in GO and with good reason. You can't have a mindset in employees of trying to be 2 different things at the same time , premium service mentality for one person, show us your money for another. From the ST article Cruz and other senior execs recognise service is unreliable but nowhere do they give a reason to understand why this might be?

Interesting to see that IAG profits are excellent yet their investment percentage much lower than rivals. lessons of business show that profits created like this invariably lead to critical problems down the line.

Also of note, they have no baseline as to when cost cutting is counter productive.

Ultimately it does seem that Cruz and co are 'winging it' in every sense.

FlyerTalker688786

It already exists! And very successful, far more successful than any retailers. It is called Amazon! And in China it is called Alibaba.