ABBA - anyone but BA
Jul 25, 2017, 12:38 am
#211
Ambassador, British Airways; FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Leeds, UK
Programs: BA GGL/CCR, GfL, HH Diamond
Posts: 42,990
Not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread (search revealed nothing) but moneysavingexpert published a blog post yesterday on BA's BoB, jumping on the ABBA bandwagon. They took contributions from 3 members on here: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/tea...ays-shambolic/
"On the Flyertalk forum, Tristar 1979, who presumably works for BA, wrote: “Just welcomed a group of customers who called it ‘Hungary Airways’ because there was no food left to buy.”
On the same forum corporate-wage-slave said: “They routinely sell out of short-dated items (sandwiches) on the outbound and do not have any for the return.”
And Toonfan said: “Trolley service, when it finally started, was pitifully slow and they ran out of sandwiches about seven rows… [into economy].”
"On the Flyertalk forum, Tristar 1979, who presumably works for BA, wrote: “Just welcomed a group of customers who called it ‘Hungary Airways’ because there was no food left to buy.”
On the same forum corporate-wage-slave said: “They routinely sell out of short-dated items (sandwiches) on the outbound and do not have any for the return.”
And Toonfan said: “Trolley service, when it finally started, was pitifully slow and they ran out of sandwiches about seven rows… [into economy].”
Jul 25, 2017, 12:44 am
#212
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Helsinki
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 143
It was mentioned in this thread yesterday http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28602604-post1857.html
Jul 25, 2017, 1:18 am
#213
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dorchester, Dorset UK
Programs: BA Gold, BMI, ANA, HH Blue, SPG Gold
Posts: 2,069
My response to: ABBA - Anyone but BA
(sung to the tune of...oh, you'll figure it out.)
If you change your mind, BA's the first in line
Honey, they'll be free
Or will you Flybe?
If you need them, let them know, gonna be around
If you've got no place to go, if you're feeling down.
If you're all alone, when the Kranich's flown,
Honey, BA's free,
And you're trapped emotionally.
Gonna do their very best and it ain't no lie (cough!)
If you put them to the test, if you let them try (cough cough!)
'Cause you know they got
So much BA wanna do, when they put the screws to you
It's magic!
You think you can leave it there, cut this love/hate affair?
But I think you know
That you can't let go...
(sung to the tune of...oh, you'll figure it out.)
If you change your mind, BA's the first in line
Honey, they'll be free
Or will you Flybe?
If you need them, let them know, gonna be around
If you've got no place to go, if you're feeling down.
If you're all alone, when the Kranich's flown,
Honey, BA's free,
And you're trapped emotionally.
Gonna do their very best and it ain't no lie (cough!)
If you put them to the test, if you let them try (cough cough!)
'Cause you know they got
So much BA wanna do, when they put the screws to you
It's magic!
You think you can leave it there, cut this love/hate affair?
But I think you know
That you can't let go...
Jul 25, 2017, 2:54 am
#214
Fontaine d'honneur du Flyertalk
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Morbihan, France
Programs: Reine des Muccis de Pucci; Foreign Elitist (according to others)
Posts: 19,180
Low cost airlines do not fly from Heathrow. Low cost airlines do not have cabin crew who've been flying for 25 years. Low cost airlines do not have enormous pension deficits.
Do do you really think a passenger paying a fare component of £1 is not being subsidised by a passenger some place else? Do you know what the minimum ticket price BA needs to charge from LHR, excluding taxes, in order to make a profit?
BA could not survive in its current form without premium passengers. If they leave, or their yields reduce, the future isn't rosy.
Do do you really think a passenger paying a fare component of £1 is not being subsidised by a passenger some place else? Do you know what the minimum ticket price BA needs to charge from LHR, excluding taxes, in order to make a profit?
BA could not survive in its current form without premium passengers. If they leave, or their yields reduce, the future isn't rosy.
). I have no recent figures available but freight and mail can pay for a lot of the costs of a flight. I am almost certain that Low Costs carry little or no freight - they'd never achieve those turn around times. Just a thought.
Jul 25, 2017, 3:59 am
#215
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: Regarded as total and utter snob amongst the BAEC community.
Posts: 971
I strongly suspect IAG long term goal is to create a standard 'airline platform' for all airlines that it owns to operate under. Each airline will no longer have an executive board per se but just a general manager to oversee the operation and report back to the IAG board will be in charge of setting strategy.
Pilots and Cabin crew will either be self-employed or supplied for a central pool of offshored personnel from either eastern European or Asia.
Generic cabins & service on all airlines. The only different thing you may notice if just colours for planes and uniforms that operate in specific regions.
Pilots and Cabin crew will either be self-employed or supplied for a central pool of offshored personnel from either eastern European or Asia.
Generic cabins & service on all airlines. The only different thing you may notice if just colours for planes and uniforms that operate in specific regions.
Jul 25, 2017, 4:03 am
#216
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: BA - Blue > Bronze > Silver > Bronze > Blue
Posts: 6,812
My sister, now living very close to LGW takes Norwegian every time based solely on convenience, which as you say, for most will always trump a nice warm Shwarma instead of a mars bar
Jul 25, 2017, 4:06 am
#217
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Plymouth, UK
Programs: BAEC Gold
Posts: 1,159
I strongly suspect IAG long term goal is to create a standard 'airline platform' for all airlines that it owns to operate under. Each airline will no longer have an executive board per se but just a general manager to oversee the operation and report back to the IAG board will be in charge of setting strategy.
Pilots and Cabin crew will either be self-employed or supplied for a central pool of offshored personnel from either eastern European or Asia.
Generic cabins & service on all airlines. The only different thing you may notice if just colours for planes and uniforms that operate in specific regions.
Pilots and Cabin crew will either be self-employed or supplied for a central pool of offshored personnel from either eastern European or Asia.
Generic cabins & service on all airlines. The only different thing you may notice if just colours for planes and uniforms that operate in specific regions.
Jul 25, 2017, 6:33 am
#218
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: Regarded as total and utter snob amongst the BAEC community.
Posts: 971
So far the only thing I can work out is everyone wants 5 star products and service, with fair pay along with terms and conditions for all employees and paying little as possible for the ticket. Top this with high profits giving suitable shareholder returns yoy.
Jul 25, 2017, 7:04 am
#219
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Mexico City
Programs: Life Miles, Miles and more
Posts: 518
Of course some of them are subsidised. Airlines run on single digits margins, typically 5% or less.
An A320 costs VERY roughly $3,000 per hour to operate. That 2.5 hour Alicante flight for £21 costs about $50-55 per passenger at BA's average load factor. That doesn't include all the additional functions going on at HQ.
An A320 costs VERY roughly $3,000 per hour to operate. That 2.5 hour Alicante flight for £21 costs about $50-55 per passenger at BA's average load factor. That doesn't include all the additional functions going on at HQ.
Do you really think your ET fare covers 100% of the cost of your flight? The person up the front paying over the odds for their "101 improvements" is actually subsidising you
They suggested that all ET seats are subsidised which would be a bizarre way to run a business, especially given that there are no-frills carriers such as Eurowings that fly into LHR, and I am not aware of them being state run subsidised businesses.
In any case, where seats are sold below cost they are not subsidised in the sense that BA is not deliberately charging more for Club in order to enable it to charge less for certain seats in Y out of some kind of act of charity. It charges what the market can bear for each seat, aiming to maximise revenue. It it sells a seat at a loss it is because it can't find anyone to pay more and would rather have any revenue than none.
A subsidy refers to a sum of money taken from one source and specifically allocated to another to enable/encourage it to happen. This is not the case with flying. As the model of virtually every airline on earth shows us, it is not up front flying that enables economy, but if anything, vice versa.
Jul 25, 2017, 8:03 am
#221
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,146
How the airline economics of all that works completely eludes me, and I don't need to know anyway. Price can easily trump the convenience of a direct flight.
And I remember flying CW to Jamaica for £999 ... the same price as WT+
Jul 25, 2017, 8:23 am
#222
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Argentina
Posts: 40,211
And that, my friend, is why some of us do much-derided ex-EU flights, even if they require extra (TP earning) sectors!
How the airline economics of all that works completely eludes me, and I don't need to know anyway. Price can easily trump the convenience of a direct flight.
And I remember flying CW to Jamaica for £999 ... the same price as WT+
How the airline economics of all that works completely eludes me, and I don't need to know anyway. Price can easily trump the convenience of a direct flight.
And I remember flying CW to Jamaica for £999 ... the same price as WT+
I wonder how many exEU passengers fly with BA today compared to 30 or 40 years ago? If BA are dishing out more cheap CW fares to mainland Europeans then it's no wonder they've had to cut costs. If that's the secret to their financial success you can't knock it.
Jul 25, 2017, 8:24 am
#223
Join Date: Jan 2005
Programs: BA Gold, several other less interesting cards...
Posts: 3,712
The actual words from the person I was replying to were:
Do you really think your ET fare covers 100% of the cost of your flight? The person up the front paying over the odds for their "101 improvements" is actually subsidising you
They suggested that all ET seats are subsidised which would be a bizarre way to run a business, especially given that there are no-frills carriers such as Eurowings that fly into LHR, and I am not aware of them being state run subsidised businesses.
Do you really think your ET fare covers 100% of the cost of your flight? The person up the front paying over the odds for their "101 improvements" is actually subsidising you
They suggested that all ET seats are subsidised which would be a bizarre way to run a business, especially given that there are no-frills carriers such as Eurowings that fly into LHR, and I am not aware of them being state run subsidised businesses.
Each flight will have a cost that is known in advance and those in the lower fare buckets don't contribute that much. That is disproportionately covered in the flex and semi-flex classes which come into play when the cheaper fares have gone. All airlines run that way. Even Ryanair.
Jul 25, 2017, 8:30 am
#224
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Munich, Algarve, Sussex or S.F Bay Area
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, A3*Gold, AA Plat, HH Gold, IHG Plat Amb, Marriott Plat
Posts: 4,164
You are, of course, quite right. There is one element no one has taken into account as we very rarely mention it, and that is freight. It is highly lucrative and it doesn't kick off about panini or leg room (). I have no recent figures available but freight and mail can pay for a lot of the costs of a flight. I am almost certain that Low Costs carry little or no freight - they'd never achieve those turn around times.
Just a thought.
). I have no recent figures available but freight and mail can pay for a lot of the costs of a flight. I am almost certain that Low Costs carry little or no freight - they'd never achieve those turn around times. Just a thought.
Jul 25, 2017, 10:10 am
#225
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Location: Mexico City
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Posts: 518
No they didn't and that is quite an extrapolation. They were suggesting that the lower fare buckets don't cover their costs.
Each flight will have a cost that is known in advance and those in the lower fare buckets don't contribute that much. That is disproportionately covered in the flex and semi-flex classes which come into play when the cheaper fares have gone. All airlines run that way. Even Ryanair.
Each flight will have a cost that is known in advance and those in the lower fare buckets don't contribute that much. That is disproportionately covered in the flex and semi-flex classes which come into play when the cheaper fares have gone. All airlines run that way. Even Ryanair.
I don't see any mention of lower fare buckets in their post, only a broad mention of ET, but maybe I missed some context from earlier discussion?