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The BA Compensation Thread: Your guide to Regulation 261/2004

The BA Compensation Thread: Your guide to Regulation 261/2004

Old Jan 12, 2014, 3:16 pm
  #76  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
You will have seen this other thread on the issue, I hope.

My view is that this looks like a good case for €600, arguably times two due to both services going tech. I suspect you may have to settle for one payment, and due to the sheer hassle I hope BA won't quibble. Follow the process in thread 1 and hopefully you will get compensated. Please let us know.
Thank you very much - I did not see that other thread! What do you think would be a reasonable offer for Avios instead?
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Old Jan 12, 2014, 4:01 pm
  #77  
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Originally Posted by r281
Thank you very much - I did not see that other thread! What do you think would be a reasonable offer for Avios instead?
I wish it did work like that, since it would lead to more civilised solutions in many cases. In reality since the entitlement is a legal provision BA tend to pay the cash, in order to clearly discharge the responsibility, even though there is a clause in the Regulations which indicates that both sides can agree alternative approaches. I would be interested if you sent a formal claim for EU261 into BA and added at the bottom "as an alternative to cash, I would be prepared to negotiate a settlement in Avios in line with Article 7.3" and see what happens (please let us know too). Now, €600 would suggest 40-50,000 Avios - you can more or less buy them at a price adjacent to that, so I think that is your starting point.

Originally Posted by EU 261 Article 7.3
3. The compensation referred to in paragraph 1 shall be paid in cash, by electronic bank transfer, bank orders or bank cheques or, with the signed agreement of the passenger, in travel vouchers and/or other services.
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Old Jan 12, 2014, 5:02 pm
  #78  
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Last edited by BA6501; Jan 17, 2014 at 9:14 am
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Old Jan 12, 2014, 11:54 pm
  #79  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
Post 3

Right to compensation (Article 7 of EU261):

Q1: When am I entitled to compensation?
A1: You are entitled to compensation if you are involuntarily denied boarding or if your flight is delayed more than 3 hours. Delays under 3 hours are not eligible for compensation. In case of cancellation, you are also entitled to compensation in the following circumstances:
.

My flight yesterday from LHR to HYD departed 270 mins late but arrived 239 mins late, according to the quote above I should be eligible for compensation. Is that correct, I always thought is was over 240 mins for compensation on long haul flights

.
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Old Jan 13, 2014, 12:01 am
  #80  
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Originally Posted by Oilrig fella
My flight yesterday from LHR to HYD departed 270 mins late but arrived 239 mins late, according to the quote above I should be eligible for compensation. Is that correct, I always thought is was over 240 mins for compensation on long haul flights

.
Since you arrived < 4hrs late you are entitled to 50% compensation ( assuming that the reason for delay entitles to compensation )
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Old Jan 13, 2014, 12:10 am
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It appeared to be a great part of the delay was trying to find someone to sign off on the repair. The screen never mentioned delay, it only said "please wait", we did board a little late but then we sat at the gate for approximately 3-1/2 hrs.
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Old Jan 13, 2014, 12:46 am
  #82  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
Since you arrived < 4hrs late you are entitled to 50% compensation ( assuming that the reason for delay entitles to compensation )
I must admit that's a new one for me. What part of EU261 stipulates that? Or is that some kind of BA-rule?
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Old Jan 13, 2014, 1:23 am
  #83  
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
Since you arrived < 4hrs late you are entitled to 50% compensation ( assuming that the reason for delay entitles to compensation )
Originally Posted by agehall
I must admit that's a new one for me. What part of EU261 stipulates that? Or is that some kind of BA-rule?
It's not in the Regs, that is true. In fact there is no compensation in the Regs for delays at all! This has come about via the intervention of national and European judiciary when airlines stopped cancelling flights, for which there is compensation in the regulations, and starting "delaying" services by absurd amounts of time, a cynical way around the regulations.

Now the 4 hour rule is very clear, the 3 to 4 hour area is implied, and BA are known to pay up on it: if it was a cancellation AND the airline re-routed you so your delay was 3 to 4 hours long then compensation is clearly specified at 50%, in order to encourage the airlines to minimise passengers' delays. Some irrops with delays end up with the 3 to 4 hour delay occuring due to missing connections more than a reroute, and certainly in those cases BA have been known to pay. I'm confident that a reasonably competent court would uphold the 3 to 4 hours aspect.
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Old Jan 13, 2014, 2:50 am
  #84  
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Originally Posted by agehall
I must admit that's a new one for me. What part of EU261 stipulates that? Or is that some kind of BA-rule?
If you mean the 50% reduction below certain thresholds, it is in Article 7(2) of the Reg.

If you mean the principle of entitlement to compensation in case of delays > 3 hrs, this follows from CJEU caselaw (Sturgeon case), as indicated by cws.
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Old Jan 14, 2014, 9:20 am
  #85  
 
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BA196 IAH-LHR 20 Dec 2013

I have a question on a potential claim on this flight.

Basically, the IAH-LHR flight was delayed approx. 21 hours because the incoming LHR-IAH flight didn't leave LHR due to a technical problem. I put in a claim on the online form, using wording very similar to that suggested on moneysavingexpert.com, including reference to EU261. There were 4 passengers, and I requested 600 Euros per passenger, total 2400 Euros.
I have received a denial of claim email, as follows:

QUOTE
Your claim for compensation has been refused because flight BA0196 on 20 December 2013 was delayed due to an unexpected flight safety shortcoming, which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled. Under EU legislation, British Airways is not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.

During the final maintenance checks, we discovered a problem of fuel leakage in wing leading to nightstop. There are numerous parts that the airline may be required to replace within a specific timeframe. These parts are kept fully stocked and ready to fit. As this particular ‘part’ was not due to be replaced, this constitutes as extraordinary circumstances.

Unfortunately airline operations are subject to circumstances outside the airline's control. British Airways takes all reasonable measures to avoid delaying a flight in such circumstances. Consideration is given to whether there are any operational options available before a decision to delay is made. We are sorry that the delay was necessary in this case.

Thank you again for following this up with us. I do hope we have the chance to welcome you on board again soon.

Best regards

<name removed>
EU Compensation Claims
UNQUOTE

The final maintenance checks they refer to must have been the checks done prior to the flights departure from London, not prior to my ticketed departure from Houston, as the plane never got here!

In the delay before Christmas, I was googling around the claims procedure, and I found a case (or thought I had!!) that had gone to court, where it was found that the airline could not deny compensation for a subsequent flight if the prior flight did not operate. I.e. in my case the LHR-IAH flight did not operate, they could not protect themselves from compensating me for the subsequent IAH-LHR flight. I thought I had bookmarked the link to the case, but cannot now find it, and no amount of googling has revealed it.

So, my question is twofold:-
1) does anyone know the case I am referring to (or did I imagine it!)
2) does anyone think my claim is justified/likely to succeed?

Thanks for any views/info!

Last edited by Oxon Flyer; Jan 14, 2014 at 10:44 am Reason: Remove the name of teh email sender, as per FT rules
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Old Jan 14, 2014, 12:49 pm
  #86  
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Just write back to BA stating that the details of the delay to the flight do not amount to extraordinary circumstances and that you require payment of the EUR600 within 7 days or that you will commence proceedings to recover it
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Old Jan 15, 2014, 4:09 pm
  #87  
 
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
I wish it did work like that, since it would lead to more civilised solutions in many cases. In reality since the entitlement is a legal provision BA tend to pay the cash, in order to clearly discharge the responsibility, even though there is a clause in the Regulations which indicates that both sides can agree alternative approaches. I would be interested if you sent a formal claim for EU261 into BA and added at the bottom "as an alternative to cash, I would be prepared to negotiate a settlement in Avios in line with Article 7.3" and see what happens (please let us know too). Now, €600 would suggest 40-50,000 Avios - you can more or less buy them at a price adjacent to that, so I think that is your starting point.
When I fill out the online form for either flight both are automatically rejected:

https://www.britishairways.com/trave..._gb?eId=150002

We regret that we are unable to proceed with your claim.
Our records show flight BA0176 on the 8th Jan has not been cancelled.


For BA0186 on the 7th Jan: We regret that we are unable to proceed with your claim.
The cancellation of this flight does not qualify you for compensation under EU legislation because the cancellation was caused by circumstances outside of our control.


For a description of the extraordinary circumstances outside British Airways' control, please click here.

For full details of your rights under the legislation, please click here.

https://www.britishairways.com/trave...club/_gf/en_gb

British Airways cancelled your flight due to extraordinary circumstances outside British Airways' control. Under EU Regulation 261/2004, these include (but are not limited to)


> Bad weather
> Security risks
> Unexpected aircraft technical problems
> Strikes
> Air Traffic Control problems
> Airspace restrictions
> Other acts of third parties outside British Airways' control.

Any of these circumstances may have a knock on effect on aircraft or crew, resulting in subsequent flights being cancelled.

I assume they will classify it as a technical issue due to Boeing:
http://www.thebasource.com/g-zbjb.html

British Airways B787-8 G-ZBJB Returns from Newark.
January 11, 2014
Following the technical issues it encountered on 7th and 8th January, British Airways Boeing 787-8 G-ZBJB positioned Newark – London Heathrow in the early hours of this morning as BA9172.
More

British Airways B787-8 G-ZBJB Further Newark Technical Issue.
January 8, 2014
Following the technical issue it encountered yesterday, British Airways Boeing 787-8 G-ZBJB was preparing to depart Newark tonight as yesterday’s delayed BA186 Newark – London Heathrow, when it returned to the stand with a hydraulic issue. The flight was subsequently cancelled.
More

British Airways B787-8 G-ZBJB Newark Technical Issue.
January 7, 2014
British Airways Boeing 787-8 G-ZBJB operated BA187 London Heathrow – Newark today, however the return BA186 has been delayed overnight due to a technical issue with the aircraft.


and for the 777 they will just say their own technical issue last minute:

British Airways B777-200ER G-YMMK Returns from New York JFK.
January 9, 2014
Following its return to the stand last night, British Airways Boeing 777-236ER G-YMMK departed New York JFK late tonight operating yesterday’s delayed BA176 New York JFK – London Heathrow as BA9604.
More

British Airways B777-200ER G-YMMK New York JFK Technical Issue.
January 8, 2014
British Airways Boeing 777-236ER G-YMMK operating BA176 New York JFK – London Heathrow pushed back from the stand but was unable to start both engines and returned to the stand. The flight has been delayed overnight.

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Old Jan 16, 2014, 1:02 am
  #88  
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The online form is rubbish. Send a letter.
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Old Jan 16, 2014, 6:22 am
  #89  
 
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I was one of the unfortunates who was stuck at LGW on Christmas Eve. Aiming to travel on BA 2714 to AGP, scheduled to leave at 14.45, the web site updated with a 'creeping delay' (latest one was for a departure at 19.03) before I then received a text at 12.48 (less than 2 hours from departure to say it had been cancelled). Long story short was I was re-booked onto a flight from LCY on Boxing Day - nearly 40 hours later than the original booked flight.
I thought this would be an obvious EU261 claim for cancellation, but BA have come back rejecting the claim as the cancellation was due to 'airspace restrictions being in place that were ooutside British Airways' control'. The issue, as many will know was not airspace restrictions, but a power failure in North Terminal. Some airlines moved their operations to the South terminal, but BA did not, so my view is they had operational options available.

Thoughts anyone?
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Old Jan 16, 2014, 6:27 am
  #90  
 
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Originally Posted by JSM8
I was one of the unfortunates who was stuck at LGW on Christmas Eve. Aiming to travel on BA 2714 to AGP, scheduled to leave at 14.45, the web site updated with a 'creeping delay' (latest one was for a departure at 19.03) before I then received a text at 12.48 (less than 2 hours from departure to say it had been cancelled). Long story short was I was re-booked onto a flight from LCY on Boxing Day - nearly 40 hours later than the original booked flight.
I thought this would be an obvious EU261 claim for cancellation, but BA have come back rejecting the claim as the cancellation was due to 'airspace restrictions being in place that were ooutside British Airways' control'. The issue, as many will know was not airspace restrictions, but a power failure in North Terminal. Some airlines moved their operations to the South terminal, but BA did not, so my view is they had operational options available.

Thoughts anyone?
I would think it would fall under extraordinary circumstances still. If you read back through the last few pages I'm sure there was a mention that BA are providing other relevant compensation.
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