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The BA Compensation Thread: Your guide to Regulation 261/2004

The BA Compensation Thread: Your guide to Regulation 261/2004

Old Jan 5, 2014, 2:26 pm
  #31  
 
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It is really disheartening to read this thread - I have generally good experience with BA's customer service, but IRROPS just seem horribly handled. Why does obvious claims seem to be routinely ignored and automatically claimed extraordinary circumatnces?

What are your thoughts on getting any compensation from actions resulting from the flight control systems being down in the UK on Dec 7th? Does this constitute extraordinary circumstances? After all the world worked before computers existed as well?

I have a case I'll take up with BA and initially I will not try to claim this compensation as my main issue is getting refunds for hotel and refund of connecting flight on separate booking (as I next day booking because they failed to get me there). On the phone on the day they said that refund on partial would be allowed if I rebooked myself with another airline (they had no flights to rebook me to until 4 days later and refused to rebook me on other oneworld flights despite me asking for it).
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 9:47 am
  #32  
 
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Compensation for Delayed Flight. LGW to TPA 9 November 2013

Hello

I am currently trying to obtain compensation from BA in respect of Flight BA2167 on 9 November 2013 from London Gatwick to Tampa. The flight arrived 4 hrs 31 minutes late at TPA.

The flight was due to depart at 12:55 London time and at 00:44 I received an SMS stating. BA2167 is delayed and will now depart at 14:55. At 09:02 a further SMS was received stating a delay until 17:00.

I made a complaint to BA and I summarise their response below.

As you are aware, a problem with the standby instrument control box was discovered on the aircraft. This discovery was made during final safety checks of the previous flight the aircraft operated. This flight, as you are aware, was from Antigua returning to London Gatwick.

The standby instrument control box had been maintained in accordance with the manufacturers guidelines and was not scheduled for maintenance or replacement. Therefore, an available spare was not present at Antigua and one had to be sourced from Miami.

This constitutes as an extraordinary circumstance and prevented the aircraft from operating as scheduled. However, under EU legislation and as per CAA guidelines concerning extraordinary circumstances, British Airways is not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.


Any thoughts/advice as to whether there is a claim and the next steps would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance

Ted
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 11:31 am
  #33  
 
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Ted, welcome to the BA forum.

I am not best placed to give advice on this but there is a dedicated thread....
Have a search for EU claims on the BAEC board.

It seems that B.A. Have recently been using the " it was serviced in accordance with xxxxxx but unexpectedly broke" as an excuse to extract them from any responsibility for paying compensation.....

Were you looked after? Did you receive any Avios?
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 11:38 am
  #34  
 
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This sounds troublesome, based on the above and in other posts this year at http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...61-2004-a.html BA seem to have decided that their technical faults on their planes are "extraordinary circumstances not expected in the day to day running of an airline", however BA seem to be basing their opinions on

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes...ances-list.pdf

Their excuse "This discovery was made during final safety checks of the previous flight the aircraft operated."

Does not seem to tie into the general word on that (draft) document which states "immediately prior to departure or in-flight". Given this was an aircraft departing from a BA hub, I'm not sympathetic to BA at all. In fact I think the original case about technical faults was about knock on delays.

Nonetheless, this thread may be better dealt with over at http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...61-2004-a.html

Last edited by paulwuk; Jan 6, 2014 at 11:50 am
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 12:11 pm
  #35  
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On the basis that FlyBe paid compensation out to me last summer when the flight before had a technical fault at the up-route airport, I'd say it's poor form of BA not to pay out in these circumstances.

I seem to recall someone from the CAA (in a BBC interview) saying that if it was up-route, then the airline had no defence.

Maybe BA are just trying it on - 90% of people will just walk away here. Call them on it and say you believe that comp is payable, then either refer to the CAA or issue a letter before action & go straight to a small claims court.
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 12:21 pm
  #36  
 
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Very similar situation here. My flight just before Christmas was delayed for 12 hours, because of some "anti-icing valve" problem. This may or may not have been the case on the outbound flight to BOS, but my flight was from BOS and delayed simply due to the incoming aircraft being delayed. Aside from that, everything was the exact same wording as reproduced by others here. I will give BA one final chance with a deadline, but it's looking like legal action may need to be taken.

I am a UK citizen resident in the USA (Massachusetts). If it comes to it, can I use the UK small claims process? I find it less intimidating than the US system. Or maybe there's a reason the US system may serve me better?
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 12:31 pm
  #37  
 
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Originally Posted by potfish
Very similar situation here. My flight just before Christmas was delayed for 12 hours, because of some "anti-icing valve" problem. This may or may not have been the case on the outbound flight to BOS, but my flight was from BOS and delayed simply due to the incoming aircraft being delayed. Aside from that, everything was the exact same wording as reproduced by others here. I will give BA one final chance with a deadline, but it's looking like legal action may need to be taken.

I am a UK citizen resident in the USA (Massachusetts). If it comes to it, can I use the UK small claims process? I find it less intimidating than the US system. Or maybe there's a reason the US system may serve me better?
I'm not sure the US system would be suitable for an EU compensation claim anyway....
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 12:38 pm
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by flashware
I'm not sure the US system would be suitable for an EU compensation claim anyway....
That is a good point!
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 12:45 pm
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by Swiss Tony

Maybe BA are just trying it on - 90% of people will just walk away here. Call them on it and say you believe that comp is payable, then either refer to the CAA or issue a letter before action & go straight to a small claims court.
This is exactly what is happening. BA know most people will just leave it.
KLM did the same to me a few years ago, I took it up with the Dutch Transport Inspectorate and they told KLM to pay up. I had to chase KLM for payment but they did pay.

I've just started a claim with BA and the good news is I am willing to take it all the way. Small claims is something I've had to do before and it's even easier now.
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 12:52 pm
  #40  
 
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And a warm welcome from me too TDAIR.

We have a thread specifically related to this issue: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...61-2004-a.html. The first few posts are particularly informative. There is also an archive of last year's discussions which you will find useful too: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/briti...3-archive.html

Your experience seems in line with BA's current attitude. Read previous threads for others' experiences and advice.

hth
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 1:02 pm
  #41  
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This is a bit different. The issue is not that the delay was occasioned upstream, but rather that the delay was occasioned by the failure of a part which had been properly maintained and was not scheduled for replacement.

Consistent with at least one non-binding report to the EC, that constitutes an "extraordinary circumstance" and accordingly EC 261/2004 compensation for delay would not be payable.

To be clear, under this interpretation, had OP been a pax on the AUA-LGW and had that flight been delayed by 4+ hours as it likely was, BA also would not have paid compensation. The theory is that the carrier, BA in this case, has done all that it can do to assure an airworthy aircraft and that therefore the part failure is not within its direct control.

Will be interested to see how this turns out.
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 1:32 pm
  #42  
 
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Is compensation due for all passengers on a booking?

I was caught up in the ATC problems on Dec 7th. The short version is after a very long day at the airport rebooked from a 13:00 flight to a 17:00 flight that was finally cancelled at 20:45 due to no crew we went back landslide and dealt with an excellent agent who got us rebooked onto a seemingly full plane the next day. There were no hotels left closer than Windsor, and seeing as we live in central London we caught the Heathrow Express home and back again the next morning.

Two return tickets are 34 each, so I claimed 68. The reply was a cheque for 50 would be coming my way (as the duty of care form mentions a 50 maximum). I've already replied that I would put in a separate claim for each passenger rather than combining our claim, but does the level of compensation really get limited to 50 per PNR rather than per passenger?
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 1:40 pm
  #43  
 
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That aircraft parts fail is not an extraordinary event. That they fail at less than the estimated or calculated failure interval happens. I believe that not having either replacement part or a replacement aircraft available at your hub airport is bad planning or cost over-optimisation. If I were you, I would reply as such, inform the CAA and push on.

I do not believe in the compensation culture that seems to have become standard in modern society. However, an airline failing to make good it's inadequacies should be strongly opposed. This isn't just a case of the wine in F not being chilled.

That BA stretch their fleet so that replacement aircraft are not available at their hub airport is a commercial decision and not an extraordinary event.
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 2:00 pm
  #44  
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Originally Posted by marcusr
Two return tickets are 34 each, so I claimed 68. The reply was a cheque for 50 would be coming my way (as the duty of care form mentions a 50 maximum). I've already replied that I would put in a separate claim for each passenger rather than combining our claim, but does the level of compensation really get limited to 50 per PNR rather than per passenger?
That will be BA's internal guideline. The Regulations set no precise figure, and strictly speaking BA reneged on their side by not sorting you out. I've seen 50 mentioned before in the context of a single taxi ride back to London, so I suspect that is where it came from. The fastest way to resolve this is to just telephone BA and explain the circumstances. Even obeying their own guidelines the appropriate ceiling for you would have been either 100 (two people sharing a taxi return) or 200 (4 x 50 each way each person). I doubt you will have any pushback on this when they see your challenge.
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 2:19 pm
  #45  
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The regulation does not mention a maximum for care. While care does not technically include the train fare home, it would be absurd of BA to limit you in this way and it should be obvious they settle your reasonable expenses in full, as a taxi to Windsor plus the accommodation would have cost a multiple of this.
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