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The BA Compensation Thread: Your guide to Regulation 261/2004

The BA Compensation Thread: Your guide to Regulation 261/2004

Old Jan 3, 2014, 6:20 am
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by Dave Noble
The length of time is irrelevent ; a maintenance issue with the aeroplane is covered under EU261 regardless of BA trying to ( seemingly ) automatically deny claims

Just write back stating that the issue as described entitles compensation under EU261 and unless payment received in 7 days that you will instigate proceedings in the small claims track
Wilco... watch this space for results......
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Old Jan 3, 2014, 8:21 am
  #17  
 
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Hi all,

I posted a question about compensation in last year's thread, regarding a 5 hour delay caused by an oil leak on final inspection. They denied responsibility, as they said it was an extraordinary circumstance caused by flight safety shortcomings. I took the advice of Dave Noble and C-W-S and challenged them, saying that I thought it was a tech issue and that compensation should be due in seven days, or I would take further action. I received the following negative response:

I have reviewed your claim for compensation and as previously advised your claim for compensation as been refused due to unexpected flight safety shortcomings, which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled. As during our final safety checks of the previous flight, we noticed a fuel leak under the wing prior to departure, which led to aircraft change. As this had been maintained in accordance with the manufacturers guidelines, this constitutes as extraordinary circumstances and could not have been avoided.

Article 5.3 of the EU Regulation 261/2004 states that a carrier is not obliged to pay compensation if it can prove that the delay or cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances that could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken. In Recital 14 and 15 of EU Regulation 261/2004, extraordinary circumstances include weather, strike and the impact of an air traffic management decision which gives rise to a long delay. I regret, therefore you are not entitled to compensation under the EU Regulation for your delayed flight.

I realise that this will be disappointing for you but I hope this information will enable you to understand our decision.


Any thoughts? Still seems that I should be in line for compensation, but am I grasping for straws?
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Old Jan 3, 2014, 8:50 am
  #18  
 
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Hello again, and many thanks for all your input.
I sent another response requesting payment within seven days or otherwise I ‘would take matters further’. Now I have received a reply within 24hrs (rather than 3 weeks previously!)
Their position is unchanged. Again, recital 14/15 of the regulations are cited, and interestingly, this addendum:
‘Should court proceedings be issued and BA is required to prove the defence of ‘extraordinary circumstances’ in court then British Airways will submit full evidence at the appropriate time’.

I guess it’s all secret squirrel until then! To answer corporate-wage-slave, yes, I feel hard done by. I’m particularly irked by the idea that ‘extraordinary circumstances’ appears to be a systematic response invoked in all cases, in order to minimise liability.
I am going to send a final-final missive to reiterate that the claim of extraordinary circumstances needs to elaborate on why the delay was unexpected and out of their control. As it stands, a ‘leaky tube’ doesn’t pass muster. I note from other cases that these issues are always discovered during ‘final maintenance checks’.

Does anyone with previous experience have a rough idea of the costs involved in pursuing the claim through court? (not an issue as I’m intending to do so, just curious).
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Old Jan 3, 2014, 8:54 am
  #19  
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It would appear that BA are now treating all tech delays as extraordinary circumstances as defined in this draft document drawn up in April 2013:

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes...ances-list.pdf
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Old Jan 3, 2014, 8:56 am
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by McG
It would appear that BA are now treating all tech delays as extraordinary circumstances as defined in this draft document drawn up in April 2013:

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes...ances-list.pdf
That was the same conclusion I had come to when I read it the other day... thought the timing of it all smelt a bit fishy.
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Old Jan 3, 2014, 9:13 am
  #21  
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Originally Posted by moosecf
Does anyone with previous experience have a rough idea of the costs involved in pursuing the claim through court? (not an issue as I’m intending to do so, just curious).
If you are using Money Claim Online service (sometimes known as MCOL), it's £35 for claims under £500, plus various postage fees. For claims under £1000 it's £60. Including photocopying, telephone calls and what not you are in the £50 to £100 area basically.

It's not really the cost, it does require a fair bit of time to research and then pursue a case. In the previous 2013 thread you will find details of web companies that do the pursual for you, for a percentage, but the paperwork remains the same with that approach, they just reformat it a bit.
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Old Jan 3, 2014, 12:31 pm
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by McG
It would appear that BA are now treating all tech delays as extraordinary circumstances as defined in this draft document drawn up in April 2013:

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes...ances-list.pdf
Indeed. I raised a refund request based on a delayed flight in March where after loading all the passengers, it would declared that they were having issues filling the plane at JFK with fuel and we proceeded to sit at the gate for over 3.5 hours.

After 2 months of chasing for a response from the overseas call centre (I'm guessing it is India), I finally get the response:

Your claim for compensation has been refused because flight BA0174 on 09 March 2013 was delayed due to unexpected flight safety shortcomings, which prevented the aircraft operating as scheduled. Under EU legislation, British Airways is not liable for a compensation payment in this situation.
The flight had a problem fuelling and engineers have found a problem with the fuel panel R0100 at New York airport prior to departure.
Unfortunately airline operations are subject to circumstances outside the airline's control. British Airways takes all reasonable measures to avoid delaying a flight in such circumstances. Consideration is given to whether there are any operational options available before a decision to delay is made. We are sorry that the delay was necessary in this case.
Thank you again for following this up with us. I do hope we have the chance to welcome you on board again soon.


We were travelling in First, and one other passenger (I think he was a Prem) made such a fuss that there were other flights operating the same route that he be moved to one of them as the level of updates was poor - starting with a short '30 minute delay' to sporadic updates of 'not long now'.
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Old Jan 3, 2014, 12:45 pm
  #23  
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Originally Posted by scotti81

Any thoughts? Still seems that I should be in line for compensation, but am I grasping for straws?
Just start action to claim the money
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Old Jan 3, 2014, 12:46 pm
  #24  
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Originally Posted by moosecf
I guess it’s all secret squirrel until then! To answer corporate-wage-slave, yes, I feel hard done by. I’m particularly irked by the idea that ‘extraordinary circumstances’ appears to be a systematic response invoked in all cases, in order to minimise liability.
I am going to send a final-final missive to reiterate that the claim of extraordinary circumstances needs to elaborate on why the delay was unexpected and out of their control. As it stands, a ‘leaky tube’ doesn’t pass muster. I note from other cases that these issues are always discovered during ‘final maintenance checks’.
.
I do not see any point sending a further letter. BA has made its stance clear. Take action as you informed them that you would
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Old Jan 4, 2014, 7:57 am
  #25  
 
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Re - Technical Delays

My BA flight was delayed by 21 hours due to a technical problem with the aircraft. BA have accepted it was a techical problem (i asked for proof of the delay and the cause) but when I claimed EU comp they change the 'technical' to 'unexpected flight safety shortcoming'.

I wrote again to claim the EU compensation which they continue to refuse. Yes, i pointed out the TUI judgment. Yes, I'm BA Gold and yes I was in First. Makes no difference it seems.

BTW it seems that they outsource EU comp claims to India.

Instead of technical they are using "unexpected flight safety shortcomings not caused by British Airways" as a reason. They claimed the since BA believes that the aircraft part "had been maintained in accordance with the manufacturers guidelines, this constitutes as extraordinary circumstances and could not have been avoided. This caused a flight safety shortcoming that had to be assessed by our engineering team"

Essentially a cut and paste regarding engine / APU / flaps / landing gear etc.
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Old Jan 4, 2014, 9:10 am
  #26  
 
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Hi,

I posted in here about the 24 hrs flight delay we had last December.

I already sent a webform to them asking for a claim. Hope it won't get rejected. Here's a more detailed info of what happened during our scheduled flight at LHR. We were supposed to depart at 9pm, but the pilot made an announcement that they will delay the flight for 1 and a half hours or so because of technical problems and their engineers are working on it. He also said they could transfer us to another aircraft but it would take about 2 hrs so he decided to just stay and wait for the problem to be fixed. But it dragged on and after the estimated delay has passed, he made another announcement that it'll take another 2-3 hrs to fix. So we all waited and at about 1 or 2 am, the pilot made an announcement that the problem still wasn't fixed and that the crew can only work for a maximum amount of time so they'd just delay our flight the next night.
Before I found out about the Eu compensation I did send them a complaint thru their customer service webform. But after a few days when i found out of the Eu law, I sent another webform which is the compensation claim.

2 days ago, I received a reply from the customer service webform that i sent and they offered me 5000 avios points. There was no mention of the compensation. Should I reply and tell them about the claim webform I sent or should i just wait until they reply to it.
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Old Jan 4, 2014, 9:13 am
  #27  
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You can reply and say thank you for the Avios and please advise when the EC261/2004 compensation can be expected.
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Old Jan 5, 2014, 8:14 am
  #28  
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How does one file a small claims action in the UK? And can this be done from abroad (I'm US citizen living in New York with a claim for a 4-5 hour fully mechanical/resulting aircraft change delay).
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Old Jan 5, 2014, 8:47 am
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by sts603
How does one file a small claims action in the UK? And can this be done from abroad (I'm US citizen living in New York with a claim for a 4-5 hour fully mechanical/resulting aircraft change delay).
https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome
I've no idea if a US citizen can do it but how would you determine your local county court?

I've just made an enquiry to BA for my €600 compensation for a 5 hour delay so will probably be using this service myself soon.
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Old Jan 5, 2014, 1:36 pm
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by Private Pyle
https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome
I've no idea if a US citizen can do it but how would you determine your local county court?

I've just made an enquiry to BA for my €600 compensation for a 5 hour delay so will probably be using this service myself soon.
I'm resident in Scotland and used MCOL (not involving BA). You simply need an address in England to which communications can be sent. Fortunately Mrs Lounge has relatives resident in England, so it was no real problem.
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