simonsmith

You First told me to contact them today for the Saturday flights; I did so and was informed that ba57 was definitely not NF but that BA 55 definitely was. I rang back and confirmed this with another operator and swapped to the 55. I asked several times and was reassured the 55 was NF. Will keep fingers crossed!

I note that on the seat plan of the 55 there is a "cot" between rows 4 and 5 on the right side that was not there on the 57: is this a variant?

Currently we are in 4a and e; 4f is free but when selected it keeps saying i cant choose it at this time...I will ring YF tomorrow.

henkybaby

That is 48hrs or less before your flights so they do know. Last second substitution is always possible, but not likely. Congrats!

marks7389

It's always improving. The bad news is that during November (this flight not having been operated much since) it was roughly 77% Mid-J and only 23% High-J configuration.

Current chance of getting NF on a High-J = 11/24 = 46% *
Current chance of getting NF on a Mid-J = 2/22 = 9%

Current chance overall on that flight, assuming that mix of configurations = 17.5%

So better than the historical figures would suggest, but not great. Still, another 2 months and will almost certainly be higher.

[*Ignoring the 4 aircraft currently at CWL, 1 of which already has NF]

clivedrake

I am assuming the current 747-400 are having a high yield - they took some out of mothballs last year - which seems to justify their usage. Thing is BA have this low seating "point to point" idealism. (the 787 and 777ER) They should look at Emirates success at their "hub" business plan. I flew rto new Zealand last year. The 777ER was rammed including "F". The 380 from Dubai was rammed to Sydney - and 10% less in "F" onto Auckland.
The 747-400 is past its sell by date and looking at Boeing and Airbus's website BA have nothing on order for long haul - except 12 A380s. Heaven
knows when they get those.
Airlines like Emirates and other major players have a shed load of planes on order - including huge volumes of long haul stuff

clivedrake

Very encouraging.

clivedrake

Let me tell you a story.
25 years ago my firm (my family's firm actually) supplied BA with nearly all their silverplated cutlery, trays, tableware, tea pots - for 1st Class and Concorde. NOTE: silverware. I used to go to BA's catering depot at LHR.
Top champagne was being off loaded as was caviar - Beluga caviar.
Last time I had caviar with BA was in the JFK lounge about 7 years back.
Now.. not only has caviar gone (I love the stuff) so has the silverware.: its now an average stainless steel.
5 years back a JFK return in First was about �5K - now is �7K +
The facts are this: one portion of sevruga is about �125-�140 - in bulk (which BA would do) its probably about �100.
1 set of silverplated cutlery is about �50 today and of course this can be used many times. Lets say 25 times - before its lost, damaged or stolen.
This means the average First Class ticket cost is compromised by �102 !
against a �7000 ticket. Who is kidding who here !
Meanwhile Emirates (and sometimes SIA) serve copious amounts of sevruga caviar and use silverware on their flights + a decent Krug ! (Another thing BA used to have but now dont)
The head of BAs wine purchasing group recently resigned over cutbacks on decent wines.
I suppose BA are indifferent because they know many Americans fly them into the UK - and if you have ever flown an American carrier's 1st class its not hard to see why.
The tragedy is BA forgets its core root customer (Silver and Gold UK passengers) - like it did over the tail fin fiasco about ten years back.
I fly BA when I have to.
If I am flying East - its Emirates all the way; and its cheaper.
Great pity

clivedrake

NEW BOY question: whats a high and a mid "J". Excuse my ignorance.

marks7389

Or to turn that on it's head, they mothballed them in the first place over the 777s when demand nosedived - not only because the 747s are more expensive to run per seat when they are full, but also because they are more difficult to fill, especially in tough times. They actually mothballed 8 aircraft, only 1 of which has been returned to service (with 1 more likely).

All longhaul (and most shorthaul) BA flight rotations these days operate out of / into London so it is very much a hub based operating model. A range of capacities allows them to operate from the hub to destinations that otherwise would not be commercially viable, and to operate increased frequencies on those routes that do support higher capacities. The primary considerations for airlines are ultimately minimising the cost per seat (efficient aircraft / not flying them half empty) whilst at the same time taking maximum market share particularly on the more lucrative routes (and making best use of the available slots to enable that).

Don't get me wrong - I love the 747s and would be really happy if BA ordered some 747-8is. However after careful consideration they have chosen the A380 for their larger aircraft. Let's not forget that Emirates also operate smaller aircraft, including 777s, A340s and have placed an order for 787s.

This is really the wrong place for this discussion - can we get it moved into a new (or existing) thread for this subject?

marks7389

J cabin = Club World. The High-J configuration has 70 Club World seats. The Mid-J configuration has 52 Club World seats, with World Traveller Plus in front of Club on the main deck.

Gshumway

The 747-400 is currently configured into either 52 or 70 Club seats. 52 is the mid J, 70 is the high J.

Nyghtwing

Yes, if you see that a "cot" is located at seat 4F/5F on a 747-400, then it is definitely New First. That is your best indicator short of ringing up You First.

clivedrake

I think there are merits on both "point to point" and "hub".

Its also a strange "call" as well: BA own outright their 747-400
fleet and they are not leased as with most aircraft. So their operating
costs - in theory and up to a point - are reduced. Apparently a 747
burns around 15-20 tons more fuel than a 777 on the same route - so
that over 12 months counters the gain.

The 747-8 burns 20% less than a 400.

Thing is - and this is my main point - the fleet is ageing and there seems
little prospect of that improving on long haul - for 5-10 years.

I'd like to start a new thread on this discussion; as you say this probably
isnt the right place. mind you - we are not going to see a modern fleet
with NF - for the same period of time.

clivedrake

OK.. I knew J was Club but thought we were mainly talking about NF.
Thanks for the clarification.

marks7389

Yes, the point is that a far higher proportion of the aircraft configured with more J seats have so far been upgraded with NF.

simonsmith

So YF were sure it was NF and so swapped to the ba55; just before on line check in last night rang to double check and the plane now swapped to non NF...have swapped back to the 57 1ak and an almost empty F cabin and better timings or us...It will be nice to have the Old F once again I decided; after all many years of NF to come; )