Business Class replaced by 'FlexiY' on LHR-UK/Ireland from 27 Jan 2010; end of Blue+
Jan 18, 2010, 6:36 am
#91
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
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Posts: 8,479
My gut feeling (from a business perspective, since I don't do dom flights) is that this is not a crazy move. I am probably one of the last people in Britain whose job perks include 'J anywhere' travel. Most people are forced to use Y, even if J is cheaper, because of travel policy.
The Full Y flyer gets lounge access, free food and a seat at the front, plus some miles. It's probably as good as you could expect for a 50 minute hop to EDI and is still a substantially better package than EasyJet etc. BMI gets to cut its fare (or increase its margin) because of the APD saving. Life could be worse.
When I'm travelling myself, I've already decided to make this the year of the train when travelling around the UK and there are more civilised options than BMI for my none domestic travel (come to think of it, BMI doesn't fly to any international destination I frequently go to any more).
Jan 18, 2010, 6:38 am
#92
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
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Posts: 29,517
Most of my status miles actually came from the Star MegaDo but they probably couldn't tell how I earned those miles.
@ ThatT1Feeling, rest assured nothing much has improved for me. I already have lounge access as *G when flying on BD. As a Silver I won't get any more privilege other than 25% destination miles bonus. Since I'll have to requalify for my SEN status this year or next, I may not be crediting many miles to DC in any case.
Jan 18, 2010, 6:42 am
#94
Join Date: Nov 2006
Programs: Seniors Bus Pass
Posts: 5,531
Was just about to book for BHD-LHR on 27th, and just flicked onto FT as a small "time-waster" and chanced upon this thread...
I normally fly PE anyway, and now have lost the 2+3 seating option just behind the curtain which as a *G I usually got.
With the loss of the GUV at short notice
, and now nothing to redeem the new iGUV on this is really a superb way to cheese [toastie] off the regular high cost contributors to bmi's bottom line
Time to start looking at EI more closely as F_O_M indicates.
I normally fly PE anyway, and now have lost the 2+3 seating option just behind the curtain which as a *G I usually got.
With the loss of the GUV at short notice
, and now nothing to redeem the new iGUV on this is really a superb way to cheese [toastie] off the regular high cost contributors to bmi's bottom line Time to start looking at EI more closely as F_O_M indicates.
Jan 18, 2010, 6:47 am
#95
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: London, ARN, HEL, ..... or MAN
Programs: BA GGL / GFL, Mucci Diamond!, HH Diamond, Radisson Premium, IHG Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 5,908
BA Shares up over 3% so far today... can't be because of this can it? Either that or the calling of a new strike ballot 
Never understood the stock market...
Never understood the stock market...
Jan 18, 2010, 6:58 am
#96
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Birmingham, West Midlands, UK
Programs: Mucci, BMI*G, M&M SEN, FB Gold, PC Plat, Father of GhettoIFE
Posts: 3,972
BMI seems to in the wet-lease business more than it's own markets FOM . It's gotta keep the engines warm of those A319's that have been "borrowed" from Dublin.
Once again - I'm not impressed much (although that sums up my thoughts of BMI at the moment), with the devaluation of Gold, Silver and even dread the thought - BluePlus, there's not going to be much left of what was BMI.
Theroeticly - it should lead to quicker service in the cabin without having to scan Diamond Club cards, however - I'll lay money that there will be always one credit card that doesn't swipe...
Just tell me why I'm thinking of the game "Lemmings" at the moment though....
Once again - I'm not impressed much (although that sums up my thoughts of BMI at the moment), with the devaluation of Gold, Silver and even dread the thought - BluePlus, there's not going to be much left of what was BMI.
Theroeticly - it should lead to quicker service in the cabin without having to scan Diamond Club cards, however - I'll lay money that there will be always one credit card that doesn't swipe...
Just tell me why I'm thinking of the game "Lemmings" at the moment though....
Jan 18, 2010, 6:58 am
#97
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: DUB - Ireland
Programs: EI-GCE, BD-G, BA-G, A3*G, TK*G, FB-G, HH-G, Hyatt-Dia
Posts: 8,527
Good afternoon to the bmi marketing folks who will continue to guage reactions on this thread. Here's my observation:
Most bulletin boards are magnifiers of reaction - endless lines of people saying "I'll never flying bmi again".
You're not seeing much of that here; I have been on this board for years now and know the character of most of these posters. What you're seeing is people who travel regularly saying that there's no benefit to being loyal to bmi, so they'll make such arrangemnts as suit them. They'll do some bmi; but they'll also now be doing some BA or EI too. (In fact, for those of us in DUB, we'll be doing mostly EI, as bmi has near enough no service). That's the kind of sentiment that excellerates the demise of companies. It damn near killed EI when the called time on their TAB Club about 5 years ago. You'd better hurry up and throw a big bone to the Golds and a smaller one to the Silvers. And do it today, because the genie is out of the bottle. The clock is on. I mean a big bone.
Negative cash flow will kill the airline - and we understand the changes. The relative costs of re-instating a little "love" for Golds and Silvers will be paltry compared to the business -income and cashflow - that will be lost to rational decision making by us, your spending customers.
The mudular mayhem was stupidity; this is lunacy.
Most bulletin boards are magnifiers of reaction - endless lines of people saying "I'll never flying bmi again".
You're not seeing much of that here; I have been on this board for years now and know the character of most of these posters. What you're seeing is people who travel regularly saying that there's no benefit to being loyal to bmi, so they'll make such arrangemnts as suit them. They'll do some bmi; but they'll also now be doing some BA or EI too. (In fact, for those of us in DUB, we'll be doing mostly EI, as bmi has near enough no service). That's the kind of sentiment that excellerates the demise of companies. It damn near killed EI when the called time on their TAB Club about 5 years ago. You'd better hurry up and throw a big bone to the Golds and a smaller one to the Silvers. And do it today, because the genie is out of the bottle. The clock is on. I mean a big bone.
Negative cash flow will kill the airline - and we understand the changes. The relative costs of re-instating a little "love" for Golds and Silvers will be paltry compared to the business -income and cashflow - that will be lost to rational decision making by us, your spending customers.
The mudular mayhem was stupidity; this is lunacy.
Last edited by GoldCircle; Jan 18, 2010 at 7:03 am
Jan 18, 2010, 7:01 am
#98
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Leeds ,Yorks UK
Programs: KLM Flying Blue Platinum for Life.. BA Gold , oh and some other shiny bits of plastic ...
Posts: 4,238
Jan 18, 2010, 7:04 am
#99
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: London, ARN, HEL, ..... or MAN
Programs: BA GGL / GFL, Mucci Diamond!, HH Diamond, Radisson Premium, IHG Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 5,908
Good afternoon to the bmi marketing folks who will continue to guage reactions on this thread. Here's my observation:
Most bulletin boards are magnifiers of reaction - endless lines of people saying "I'll never flying bmi again".
You're not seeing much of that here; I have been on this board for years now and know the character of most of these posters. What you're seeing is people who travel regularly saying that there's no benefit to being loyal to bmi, so they'll make such arrangemnts as suit them. They'll do some bmi; but they'll also now be doing some BA or EI too. (In fact, for those of us in DUB, we'll be doing mostly EI, as bmi has near enough no service). That's the kind of sentiment that excellerates the demise of companies. It damn near killed EI when the called time on their TAB Club about 5 years ago.
You'd better hurry up and throw a big bone to the Golds and a smaller one to the Silvers.
Double miles means nothing in the context of and airline that will, in all liklihood, not be there in June.
I mean a big bone.
Most bulletin boards are magnifiers of reaction - endless lines of people saying "I'll never flying bmi again".
You're not seeing much of that here; I have been on this board for years now and know the character of most of these posters. What you're seeing is people who travel regularly saying that there's no benefit to being loyal to bmi, so they'll make such arrangemnts as suit them. They'll do some bmi; but they'll also now be doing some BA or EI too. (In fact, for those of us in DUB, we'll be doing mostly EI, as bmi has near enough no service). That's the kind of sentiment that excellerates the demise of companies. It damn near killed EI when the called time on their TAB Club about 5 years ago.
You'd better hurry up and throw a big bone to the Golds and a smaller one to the Silvers.
Double miles means nothing in the context of and airline that will, in all liklihood, not be there in June.
I mean a big bone.
As you said I (like others) haven't said I won't fly BMI any more.
What I have said is that is more likely I will now go back to BA for my weekly flights as there is no longer any incentive to fly BMI and there is certainly little incentive for me to try to keep *G. I feel let down that my recent 95% loyalty has been binned with very little warning. For those who have been flying BMI for longer than me I can imagine you're more than a little miffed..
Jan 18, 2010, 7:04 am
#100
Join Date: May 2006
Location: BRS (Bristol, UK)
Programs: LH SEN/*G
Posts: 1,266
My gut feeling (from a business perspective, since I don't do dom flights) is that this is not a crazy move. I am probably one of the last people in Britain whose job perks include 'J anywhere' travel. Most people are forced to use Y, even if J is cheaper, because of travel policy.
[snip]
The Full Y flyer gets lounge access, free food and a seat at the front, plus some miles. It's probably as good as you could expect for a 50 minute hop to EDI and is still a substantially better package than EasyJet etc. BMI gets to cut its fare (or increase its margin) because of the APD saving. Life could be worse.
[snip]
The Full Y flyer gets lounge access, free food and a seat at the front, plus some miles. It's probably as good as you could expect for a 50 minute hop to EDI and is still a substantially better package than EasyJet etc. BMI gets to cut its fare (or increase its margin) because of the APD saving. Life could be worse.
BD has to live in a world alongside Easyjet and Ryanair. If through dropping a formal business cabin they can provide a differentiated service at a price closer to what the market values short-haul air travel, then good for them.
Nobody's commented on the LHR-VIE remark in one of the reports. I reckon that's wrong. At best, it's OS borrowing BD aircraft? (And there's the sick leaning on the wounded. At least Herr Prock-Schauer knows who to call).
Jan 18, 2010, 7:05 am
#101
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: London
Programs: Hilton, IHG - BA, GA, LH, QR, SV, TK
Posts: 17,008
Not a totally unsmart strategy - in essence they've repackaged and re-named C-class as part of a single cabin, allowing them to reduce the cost of "premium" tickets by avoiding the standard level of APD and at the same time making the tickets more acceptable (as Y-fares) to travel managers.
But I guess BD will be careful not to market the Y-flex fare as anything approaching its old business-class.
APD regulations do not focus on the designation given to fare buckets or the designation given to fare-types. They define service with a single-class of travel (i.e liable to reduced levels of APD) as one where the airline doesn't market a premium class, doesn't have different configurations of seating and there's no cabin divider. There's also a rule on maximum permitted seat-pitch.
I find the withdrawal of Gold-feeding in Y annoying, as I find any dilution of benefit, whether I normally use it or not.
But I guess BD will be careful not to market the Y-flex fare as anything approaching its old business-class.
APD regulations do not focus on the designation given to fare buckets or the designation given to fare-types. They define service with a single-class of travel (i.e liable to reduced levels of APD) as one where the airline doesn't market a premium class, doesn't have different configurations of seating and there's no cabin divider. There's also a rule on maximum permitted seat-pitch.
I find the withdrawal of Gold-feeding in Y annoying, as I find any dilution of benefit, whether I normally use it or not.
Jan 18, 2010, 7:06 am
#102
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
Programs: Hilton Gold, Priority Club Blue, SPG Gold, Sofitel Gold, FB Ivory, BA Blue
Posts: 8,479
Jan 18, 2010, 7:13 am
#103
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: BHD/DUB
Programs: BA Gold, TK*G, EI Elite
Posts: 7,622
primarily because OS have four a day already, not two; so they're increasing it by one rotation to five via bmi metal? or OS are handing over two and bmi operate three on their behalf? or it's BS? or.......?
Last edited by FlyingOnceMore; Jan 18, 2010 at 7:22 am
Jan 18, 2010, 7:23 am
#104
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: London (UK), Kolkata (India), and a part of the Netherlands you wouldn't like to visit (aka Purmerend)!
Programs: IC Royal Ambassador
Posts: 623
On average, I fly domestically from LHR with BMI 6 times each week EDI & ABZ, sometimes GLA).
Why I will be reluctant to fly with them again: Firstly, I've never received any promo (even though I am signed up for them....and my wife gets them all, although she hardly flies at all and is DC Silver).
Moreover, they got rid of the Airbus in favour of the Embraer on the LHR-ABZ route (I could never get used to the Embraer, or having to part with my hand luggage which I needed to work whilst flying).
Now, any incentive to fly that route with them has disappeared!.....that paltry, disgusting meal deal, which surely did not cost them much at all, was just enough to keep me......but now, I will go for the comfort of the BA A319 and A321 with a free breakfast in the morning or a cookie with my drink in the afternoon. Also, the lounges at T5 are so much better than the domestic BMI one at T1.
I used to fly the LHR-EDI or LHR-GLA routes in Business for the comfort of elbow space after a knackering day at work. But now, there is no reason to use them as LCY is better for me than LHR, and so I'll go BA.
I had to book 28 domestic flights today, however, after receiving their email, I gave all of these flights to BA.....so just one more month of previously booked BMI fights left for me now.
I'll never say never, but it's highly unlikely for me to go back to BMI now.
Why I will be reluctant to fly with them again: Firstly, I've never received any promo (even though I am signed up for them....and my wife gets them all, although she hardly flies at all and is DC Silver).
Moreover, they got rid of the Airbus in favour of the Embraer on the LHR-ABZ route (I could never get used to the Embraer, or having to part with my hand luggage which I needed to work whilst flying).
Now, any incentive to fly that route with them has disappeared!.....that paltry, disgusting meal deal, which surely did not cost them much at all, was just enough to keep me......but now, I will go for the comfort of the BA A319 and A321 with a free breakfast in the morning or a cookie with my drink in the afternoon. Also, the lounges at T5 are so much better than the domestic BMI one at T1.
I used to fly the LHR-EDI or LHR-GLA routes in Business for the comfort of elbow space after a knackering day at work. But now, there is no reason to use them as LCY is better for me than LHR, and so I'll go BA.
I had to book 28 domestic flights today, however, after receiving their email, I gave all of these flights to BA.....so just one more month of previously booked BMI fights left for me now.
I'll never say never, but it's highly unlikely for me to go back to BMI now.
Jan 18, 2010, 7:27 am
#105
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Posts: 38,186
Wow, for a second there I thought I was reading an AC e-mail from four years ago: start removing anything of value that differentiates yourself from the non-competition in a race to the bottom, while spinning it as an enhancement.
I really hope that someone figures out how bad this move can be before it destroys more than it fixes. Well, that and I hope that BD as a whole survives long enough to be able to realize that. It's not filling me with a lot of confidence, though.
I'm feeling pretty sympathetic to everyone with DC as a primary program now. It's not looking up.
I really hope that someone figures out how bad this move can be before it destroys more than it fixes. Well, that and I hope that BD as a whole survives long enough to be able to realize that. It's not filling me with a lot of confidence, though.
I'm feeling pretty sympathetic to everyone with DC as a primary program now. It's not looking up.
Hey, be far and accurate. AC did not eliminate business class from its domestic and transborder routes. In fact, it has significantly improved its NAmerican business class product, and upgraded seating in the back. So please don't distort and miscompare this move by DB to AC's changes. The only thing AC did, which all other NAmerican legacy carriers did, was remove free inflight meals and replace them with buy on board. So I repeat what BD has just done is nothing like what AC did, so please withdraw your inaccurate comparison.
The real piss off is elites losing any food offering, along with regular Blue members. One of the reasons I started up a BD account was for this benefit when flying within the UK/short haul intra-Europe.
While I can understand the economic rationale of dropping business class, surely BD could have considered an E+ approach as UA has done in its cabins for elites, i.e. designating the first few rows of coach for premium full fare and elites.