NickB

ThatT1Feeling

Was just preparing to leave for what will be my last meal deal flight this afternoon. My next BMI is on 27th so it'll be interesting to see how that is handled by the crew..

It all just seems so shortsighted to manage to p*** off all of the tiers of your FF programme in one go!!

Mr H

If you're on a meal deal, that means you're not paying for a top whack C class ticket. You (and I) are costing BD money - we go into lounges and have drinks and snacks; we take catering on planes; we fly and most of our ticket goes on the tax. BD don't want us. BA has a model that means you only get serious status if you fly a heck of a lot, always at premium fare and usually on international travel. They'll take a hit on One World Golds eating chilli and drinking champagne in the lounges on cheap flights because they know they've already got our money from long haul flights. But with BD, how many of us fly EDI-LHR-GYD?

As for what model BD wants - it looks as though they want to retain routes to "difficult" destinations as a niche market and wants to treat the UK domestic routes pretty much as a loco. My guess, based on neither information nor experience, is that the BMED routes and BD routes will have different carrier labels in the near future.

Oxon Flyer

Not the case. Most of the customers taking the meal deal are in fact regular BD travellers with silver or gold cards in full-fare or corporate Y, whose travel policy doesn't permit C. It's always surprising how few Blue+ cards you see.

These high-spending customers are bmi's short-haul lifeblood and these are the ones have seen the biggest degradation in value over recent years : domestic & shorthaul lounges going downhill, Embruaers being put on in place of proper planes, erratic and constantly-changing timetables, erratic and sometimes below par service, removal of evening flights, total loss of a decent elite callcentre, the GUV no-meal ritual...the list goes on, and all for a constantly increasing fare.

LiviLion

Total nonsense!!!!

Have you seen the price of a flexible Y ticket, even with our corporate 25% off rate it's still a hell of a lot and if BD aren't making money on that then I'd love to know where the money is going as it's only a wee bit tax compared to the total cost.

However, 'BD don't want us' might well be true given the stupid flight schedules and dilution of benefits recently experienced.

NickB

This is a myth that really needs to be exploded. Have you actually done the calculations? I have. In terms of benefits, DC Gold is really more comparable to BA Silver than BA Gold.

Now, you can get BA Silver at UK rates in 4 WT+ return flights if you are LON-based or 3 WT+ plus 3 cheapo-domestic/short-haul European returns (or one CE flight) if you are non-LON based.

With the Silver by segment qualification route, it will take a UK-Scotland commuter 25 return flights with BA on the cheapest of fares to reach Silver or requalify. If you were on BD, it would take you over 63 return flights on the cheapest (or even medium-ish) fares to renew Gold and 90 return flights if you were to start from scratch.

And you will note that I have not mentioned anything about Eurocheating, KUPs, cheap CE runs on LGW-AMS, etc..., all of which bring status on BA much closer.

Now clearly if you spend your life on UA, US or CO tatls on the cheapest of fares, *A G status with DC will be easier than the equivalent with BA.

But it simply is not (or at any rate no longer) the case that status is necessarily much easier to achieve with DC than with BA. It really depends on the kind of pattern of flying you do.

BD has effectively removed the two main 'objective' reasons for flying on BD rather than BA on Scottish routes . If you are a regular flyer on these routes, the one thing that BD can rely on is pax preferring their staff to BA's (or just disliking/hating BA for one reason or another). That is a little thin, if you ask me, for a carrier which is not in a dominant position but that of a challenger to the BA behemoth. I cannot help but be very gloomy about the future of BD in these circumstances.

Mr H

I doubt it. But if we are in Y, we will be seeing an enhancement of service as we'll be in the front seats. On the other hand, if we're in E or N or G or whatever the other low fares are (and that's where I am right now thanks to corporate travel policy) then we cost the airline money.

Mr H

This is just silly. As a domestic traveller, there's very little practical difference between BD*S and BD*G. In my three years of gold, I didn't notice any difference other than a single invite to lunch at The Ivy for which I was otherwise engaged.

If you are going to look at BA qualification using WT+ ex LHR, then you have a different flying pattern to the erstwhile core BD customer. We travel on UK routes, not worldwide routes. If we travelled worldwide, I suspect we'd get *A status faster than with BA, but I can't be bothered to do the sums.

There are many reasons to rant at BD right now, but this change is not really one of them IMO.

NickB

I really don't get what you are saying. Are you saying that the 'core BD customers' are individuals that fly exclusively within the UK? I would not make that assumption myself as it strikes me as fundamentally unsound. Some do little international flying and others do quite a bit (in addition to their intra-UK flying).

But let us look at the intra-UK flyer: if you fly only intra-UK on the cheapest fares, it will take you 25 return flights on BA to reach Silver. It would take you 26.5 flights on BD to reach Silver.

If you fly exclusively in full fare on domestics, then that is different matter: you clearly achieve BD Silver quicker than you would BA Silver.

(But don't forget either that your Silver card has very little value on any airline other than BD whereas your BA Silver card will give you access to OW lounges if flying OW.)

All I am saying is that statement that "BA has a model that means you only get serious status if you fly a heck of a lot, always at premium fare and usually on international travel" is plainly and manifestly wrong and shows that you know rather little about the BA scheme: you can achieve a BA status quite comparable to DC Gold at far, far less than your post suggests.

frankvb

I'm just wondering if there is such a person as a 'core BD customer'. In terms of random destinations outside the UK, I'd be surprised if the frequent BD traveller is one that travels to various destinations, as there simply aren't that many places BD still flies to. The typical BA core customer has quite a bit more choice in short-haul and long-haul destinations.

That means IMHO that the core BD customer is probably someone who is flying frequently to one destination where BD just happens to fly to. Could be domestic UK or outside the UK.

Mr H

Yes, but then you're getting back to the worldwide flying issue. If you fly worldwide then you're probably not relying on UK domestic routes for status qualification.

I know quite a bit about the BA scheme having recently been gold in it. They introduced the "fly 50 sectors and get silver" to address the fact that they used not to give tier points for cheap fare flights which many of their good customers are now compelled to use. But 50 sectors is quite a lot - basically a return trip once a fortnight, every fortnight, for a year. That's not something that many people are going to manage flying domestic routes, and very hard indeed if you're flying further afield. Prior to the 50 sectors, the only way to get BA Silver as a UK resident domestic flier was with 30 full fare sectors. That was a pretty big ask too, especially given the price differential between cheap and full fare UK Domestic flights. On the other hand, if you flew longhaul in J, it took 5 sectors to get BA Silver. That's because their model was, and is, designed to reward pax who fly in premium cabins on international routes - their most profitable customers.

The difference between BD Silver and BD Gold is negligible for a typical UK domestic flyer. You may get a seat block on BD Gold (you don't with BA Silver), and you have theoretical access to the lounges in the worldwide airports you don't fly to. But I think it is disingenuous to tell domestic UK passengers that they need to look at BD Gold to equate to BA Silver - for practical purposes, those passengers will find that BM Silver equates to BA Silver.

Most BD regulars I know (and I have lived at three ends of their routes) do as frankvb suggests - fly often between the same two points. Coming off the plane in LHR, very few pax seem to turn off for flight connections - one or two, perhaps. Most carry straight on out.

GoldCircle

I'm going to ask that we stay on topic - the destruction of bmi via the removal of business class.
If anyone wishes to discuss BAEC, they have a very nice forum of their own; in addition, we have a thread here about the BA Comp - and this is an appropriate place for such discussions.

When I have time later today, I'll see about moving some of the relevant postes over there.

GoldCircle
bmi forum Mod team

markdg

Okay - back on topic....

Even though I'm VERY saddened by bmi going down the toilet at the rate of knots (and therefore wondering how fast to burn my miles) - I couldn't help p**s myself laughing at the title at the top right of the PDF above. At least someone at the Hall still has a sense of humour (or LH didn't spot it!)

kingofbeans

Am i missing something or where are people finding that hold baggage allowance is now only 20kg on flexible economy? I can't find flexible economy baggage allowance on the bmi site. If this is the case I will be very annoyed as the extra baggage allowance was very handy for me (as a studebt) and was the main reason i booked business!

ajamieson

Yes, both the cabin and hold baggage limits have been cut. Like you, I am disappointed at the (quite unnecessary) removal of this benefit.

http://www.flybmi.com/downloads/trad...omy_matrix.pdf