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Old Apr 19, 2018, 3:42 pm
  #136  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: BOS/SIN
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Originally Posted by goodtasting
thank you for doing that, but my goodness! i'm sorry to ask, but i need your help to spoonfeed me a bit here since i'm still unfortunately running into issues

1. I was using this website below. Am i off to the right start or am i already off?
??? < ??????

2. Then, after entering my itinerary separated per segment (see below), it told me in Korean to "please select a departure/arrival airport" so I wasn't able to get to the next page.

3. On top of that, when I selected "July 11, 2018" on the calendar, it automatically converted it to "May 11, 2018" as shown.

Also another question: is it correct to assume that any UA fare that shows up as a saver award for 35k will appear on OZ for 25k? Or is it a hit or miss? Or do some 75k fares on UA even show up on OZ as 25k?
Hmm to answer your questions:
1. Yes, the website link is correct.
2/3. I'm not sure where those errors are coming from — maybe try a different browser or turn off automatic translation.
However I'm not sure if that might fix everything — I tried pricing up some of your itineraries and the website kept erroring out on me (although the space is definitely there) — I suspect the site is not very good at too complicated searches/itineraries, so it really might just be best to call in to book.

For UA fares: so long as they're showing booking class X they should be available by OZ; the 75k awards on UA involve standard award inventory (HN) which isn't released to partners.

Originally Posted by goodtasting
for such a long flight, i wouldn't mind paying more in taxes to fly on lufthansa since i've never flown on them before! as someone not very familiar with european airlines, i'm assuming even a couple hundred extra in taxes would be worth it for lufthansa over united for a transatlantic flight?
LH and UA are both pretty meh for an eastbound transatlantic redeye — you're just going to sleep anyway. An argument in favor of UA though (apart from just the taxes) would be that they fly 767s to Europe with 2-3-2 in Y, which is probably the best seating configuration going TATL. UA also has better entertainment but LH has better food. However stay away from the UA 77Ws which are 3-4-3 in economy.
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Old Apr 19, 2018, 3:57 pm
  #137  
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Originally Posted by truncated
For UA fares: so long as they're showing booking class X they should be available by OZ; the 75k awards on UA involve standard award inventory (HN) which isn't released to partners.
Probably not applicable to OP, but if you have any kind of UA status or even the UA credit card, you will see additional Saver Economy inventory which is not available to *A partners.

Originally Posted by truncated
LH and UA are both pretty meh for an eastbound transatlantic redeye — you're just going to sleep anyway. An argument in favor of UA though (apart from just the taxes) would be that they fly 767s to Europe with 2-3-2 in Y, which is probably the best seating configuration going TATL. UA also has better entertainment but LH has better food. However stay away from the UA 77Ws which are 3-4-3 in economy.
+1. If you can comfortably stay on 767s this is the best way to do it in Y... spending any significant amount of money in search of soft product in the back is a fool's errand IMO.
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Old Apr 19, 2018, 4:09 pm
  #138  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: BOS/SIN
Programs: DL 0 Million Miler (and PM), Amtrak Select, OZ Diamond Plus, BA Silver
Posts: 1,791
Originally Posted by drvannostren
I'm still confused as to how to price out an award.

Based on the award charts, one way...

USA/Canada -> South Africa // 40,000 in Economy or 60,000 in Business
Southeast Asia -> South Africa // 45,000 in Economy or 67,500 in Business

First off, I can't totally make sense of that. It would appear to me Southeast Asia is much closer to Africa, though I suppose if you look at ALL of Canada/USA you can get alot closer than from where I'm at in YVR.
That's right — the OZ chart sometimes doesn't follow logical/geographic sense, this is one of those cases. Also for example Southeast Asia -> South Pacific is 45k in Y one-way, while Northeast Asia -> South Pacific is 40k: which means say NRT-SIN-PER will be cheaper than SIN-PER by itself.

Originally Posted by drvannostren
Now, since Asiana doesn't fly to YVR or South Africa, presumably I should be able to route in such a way as to avoid OZ, right? I could fly to JNB from FRA/ZRH/SIN/PEK/CAI/ADD/HKG/JFK/IAD/MUC, so there's a handful of options none of which involve needing to touch ICN. I'm a total rookie when it comes to OZ awards, but I can't imagine being forced into an OZ leg to accomplish this.

So, are those point values correct? Do they also apply to Etihad? If you were to fly Etihad, can you pair a star alliance connection to get to it without paying extra miles? Like if I flew YVR-LAX on AC/UA then Etihad from there?
The point values are correct, and since it's a *A award using the *A chart you don't need to have any OZ legs. So those options you've listed above should be fine. That said any itinerary with connections must be within the IATA MPM (maximum permitted mileage, which unfortunately doesn't seem to be available online) for the city pair, so longer or more exotic routings might exceed MPM and will be charged on a per sector basis.

Also no combining *A and EY flights on an award.

Originally Posted by drvannostren
Let's say I did have to take OZ for some reason, YVR-HKG-ICN-SIN-JNB (AC, OZ, SQ) what would the damage be there? Would it be the original point value + a regional point value for the OZ flight?
International OZ flights on a *A ticket are priced under the *A chart (which actually leads to some interesting arbitrage opportunities), so something like YVR-ICN-SIN-JNB on AC/OZ/SQ would also be 40k. However YVR-HKG-ICN-SIN-JNB would probably fall outside MPM, plus OZ has a limit of up to two connections between origin and destination.
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Old Apr 19, 2018, 9:07 pm
  #139  
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: SFO/SJC/OAK
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Originally Posted by drvannostren
I'm still confused as to how to price out an award.

Based on the award charts, one way...

USA/Canada -> South Africa // 40,000 in Economy or 60,000 in Business
Southeast Asia -> South Africa // 45,000 in Economy or 67,500 in Business

First off, I can't totally make sense of that. It would appear to me Southeast Asia is much closer to Africa, though I suppose if you look at ALL of Canada/USA you can get alot closer than from where I'm at in YVR.

Now, since Asiana doesn't fly to YVR or South Africa, presumably I should be able to route in such a way as to avoid OZ, right? I could fly to JNB from FRA/ZRH/SIN/PEK/CAI/ADD/HKG/JFK/IAD/MUC, so there's a handful of options none of which involve needing to touch ICN. I'm a total rookie when it comes to OZ awards, but I can't imagine being forced into an OZ leg to accomplish this.

So, are those point values correct? Do they also apply to Etihad? If you were to fly Etihad, can you pair a star alliance connection to get to it without paying extra miles? Like if I flew YVR-LAX on AC/UA then Etihad from there?

Let's say I did have to take OZ for some reason, YVR-HKG-ICN-SIN-JNB (AC, OZ, SQ) what would the damage be there? Would it be the original point value + a regional point value for the OZ flight?
You definitely don't have to include OZ in any awards.
OZ leg(s) +*A leg(s)=*A award price.
Etihad cannot be combined with *A.
Unfortunately, there is no way to figure out MPM without calling in OZ and asking to check if your routing is valid. Usually, most itineraries that the UA site spits out are below the MPM, but there may be others that are allowed under UA rules but not OZ. What I find a much bigger pita is you can only have a maximum of 3 segments per o/w award.
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Old Apr 20, 2018, 11:49 am
  #140  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 816
so booking Air Canada J one way NA to Europe is only 40 K miles with no fuel surcharges?

Can I check award AC availability/fees from Asiana website or I have to call in to find out ?

Thanks!
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Last edited by ecgz88; Apr 20, 2018 at 12:00 pm
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Old Apr 20, 2018, 2:52 pm
  #141  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
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Originally Posted by ecgz88
so booking Air Canada J one way NA to Europe is only 40 K miles with no fuel surcharges?

Can I check award AC availability/fees from Asiana website or I have to call in to find out ?

Thanks!
Yes 40k one-way, but there will be fuel surcharges although not as high as AC charges their own members IIRC.
You can check AC availability and fees on the (Korean-only) OZ *A award booking site (first link plus some instructions in this thread: Star Alliance Bookings Online the search engine is kinda broken and works best for simple nonstop itineraries) but it's probably easier to find availability via the UA site first.
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Old Apr 20, 2018, 8:48 pm
  #142  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 816
I register and tried search keep getting pop up messages don't know what it means, maybe due to I have 0 miles on the account?

Originally Posted by truncated
Yes 40k one-way, but there will be fuel surcharges although not as high as AC charges their own members IIRC.
You can check AC availability and fees on the (Korean-only) OZ *A award booking site (first link plus some instructions in this thread: Star Alliance Bookings Online the search engine is kinda broken and works best for simple nonstop itineraries) but it's probably easier to find availability via the UA site first.
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Old Apr 20, 2018, 8:54 pm
  #143  
 
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Originally Posted by truncated
Yes 40k one-way, but there will be fuel surcharges although not as high as AC charges their own members IIRC.
You can check AC availability and fees on the (Korean-only) OZ *A award booking site (first link plus some instructions in this thread: Star Alliance Bookings Online the search engine is kinda broken and works best for simple nonstop itineraries) but it's probably easier to find availability via the UA site first.
I don't think AC awards bring any fuel surcharges. In my experience last year booking US-Europe in J taxes and fees came out to a total of $36 USD. If fuel surcharges had been levied (the way Aeroplan does) the fees would have been in the $200-300s.
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Old Apr 20, 2018, 8:57 pm
  #144  
 
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Originally Posted by ecgz88
I register and tried search keep getting pop up messages don't know what it means, maybe due to I have 0 miles on the account?
Could well be. Or you are inputing something else wrong (many ways to get an error ) But as said above, you can find the exact same award availability by searching on the UA site and looking for 'saver' awards. That will almost exactly match what you can book with OZ. No need to use the OZ site until you know exactly what you want to book and have the miles in your account.
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Old Apr 20, 2018, 9:29 pm
  #145  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
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Originally Posted by ecgz88
I register and tried search keep getting pop up messages don't know what it means, maybe due to I have 0 miles on the account?
google translate is your friend. also the website itself has a ton of popups when you open them so you just need to click ok and search lol.

Originally Posted by zeer0
I don't think AC awards bring any fuel surcharges. In my experience last year booking US-Europe in J taxes and fees came out to a total of $36 USD. If fuel surcharges had been levied (the way Aeroplan does) the fees would have been in the $200-300s.
I'm not sure — Canada-Japan in J on AC comes up with ~$100 in taxes/fees compared to $9.20 on UA.com. So not Aeroplan levels of fuel surcharges but definitely not zero like UA either.
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Old Apr 20, 2018, 9:43 pm
  #146  
 
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Originally Posted by truncated
I'm not sure — Canada-Japan in J on AC comes up with ~$100 in taxes/fees compared to $9.20 on UA.com. So not Aeroplan levels of fuel surcharges but definitely not zero like UA either.
Maybe Asia vs Europe. But I wonder if the $100 is even fuel surcharges at all. Might just be a higher departure/arrival tax levied by OZ for what you're looking at. Even in my case, UA had slightly lower fees, for no definite reason.
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Old Apr 20, 2018, 11:26 pm
  #147  
 
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Originally Posted by truncated
International OZ flights on a *A ticket are priced under the *A chart (which actually leads to some interesting arbitrage opportunities), so something like YVR-ICN-SIN-JNB on AC/OZ/SQ would also be 40k. However YVR-HKG-ICN-SIN-JNB would probably fall outside MPM, plus OZ has a limit of up to two connections between origin and destination.
Brilliant answers, thanks. You should write the FAQ

While MPM isn't available, maybe I'll follow up with you. There is a way to find out online what the MPM is with Aeroplan (currently Air Canada's FFP, though that's gonna die in 2020) via a javascript trick. I know MPM isn't always gonna be the exact same between airlines, the Expertflyer MPM tool hasn't been of much use to me either...but would you say that Aeroplan's MPM and Asiana's should be pretty close? I hate having to phone these call centers just to find out info they could easily post online. I'm also interested in these arbitrage opportunities you speak of. Also these strange rules they've instituted do make me wanna look for hidden sweet spots in the award chart, though I'm sure others have already done that.

Originally Posted by zeer0
What I find a much bigger pita.
Wish I could've had a big pita for dinner! Unfortunately YVR has no extreme pita locations.

To both of you, thanks for mentioning this 2 connection rule, I had NO clue that existed. My guess is it's on their site but buried in a much less clear statement. I'm the type that would often much prefer to take a wacky routing to try diff airlines or see new airports and have < 24h layovers. Guess I'll just abandon that a little bit going forward. For as many flights as YVR has, it's really a shame that so often SFO/LAX have everything we don't! Sad news about the Etihad thing too, but oh well.

Maybe one of you two know, in your experience does inventory you find on Expertflyer/UA/Aeroplan generally show up for the OZ agents when you call? I've had a bad experience or two with Singapore where they couldn't see simple economy flights that every other tool was showing.
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Old Apr 21, 2018, 12:19 am
  #148  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
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Originally Posted by drvannostren
Brilliant answers, thanks. You should write the FAQ
I really should, just never have the time (or motivation)...

Originally Posted by drvannostren
While MPM isn't available, maybe I'll follow up with you. There is a way to find out online what the MPM is with Aeroplan (currently Air Canada's FFP, though that's gonna die in 2020) via a javascript trick. I know MPM isn't always gonna be the exact same between airlines, the Expertflyer MPM tool hasn't been of much use to me either...but would you say that Aeroplan's MPM and Asiana's should be pretty close? I hate having to phone these call centers just to find out info they could easily post online. I'm also interested in these arbitrage opportunities you speak of. Also these strange rules they've instituted do make me wanna look for hidden sweet spots in the award chart, though I'm sure others have already done that.
I don't have experience with Aeroplan/Errorplan but Asiana claims to use IATA MPM, so if AP does the same then theoretically they should be identical. I avoid calling about MPM by checking how my desired itineraries price out on the OZ *A booking page — if it prices as it should then it's within MPM, but if it's pricing as two (or more) separate awards then it's probably outside MPM.

Some common award sweet spots are U.S. / Hawaii -> Europe for 40k in J / 50k in F one-way (probably the cheapest way to get LH F I think), or U.S. -> deep South America (or as OZ calls it Latin America 2) for 35k in J (UA usually has a ton of availability on EWR-EZE for example, while cash tickets to Argentina/Brazil/Chile are never cheap). Also somehow SE Asia to Europe is cheaper than N Asia to Europe (and TG consistently releasing F space 355 days out). And regarding arbitrage: compare the *A and OZ award charts and notice how in several places the *A award is cheaper than an OZ award — so sometimes adding a *A leg will make an itinerary cheaper (although I haven't personally tried that myself).

Originally Posted by drvannostren
To both of you, thanks for mentioning this 2 connection rule, I had NO clue that existed. My guess is it's on their site but buried in a much less clear statement.
Two connection rule is here:
Notes for Reservations and Ticket Issuance < Star Alliance Award Ticket < Star Alliance and Partners < Asiana Club < Home
(it's actually pretty clear but buried amongst a lot of other more irrelevant/arguably misleading information — yes you can have 8 segments on an award but you'll be charged for each segment individually lol. and similarly stopovers are allowed but they aren't free since they split the award pricing into two.)

Originally Posted by drvannostren
Maybe one of you two know, in your experience does inventory you find on Expertflyer/UA/Aeroplan generally show up for the OZ agents when you call? I've had a bad experience or two with Singapore where they couldn't see simple economy flights that every other tool was showing.
I'll defer to zeer0 on this one — I've managed to book all my award tickets online without ever having to call in (including an SQ regional J / TG F / NH F itinerary which I ended up cancelling ) but all the inventory I've seen when searching online matches what UA shows (also with OZ you can book 355 days out compared to 330 on UA).
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Old Apr 21, 2018, 1:45 am
  #149  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 816
I just checked Aeroplan AC direct flight 03/12/2019 YVR-LHR fees $513.91 ; YYZ-CDG fees $524.16 ; 03/13/2019 YVR-NRT fees $132.91

Meanwhile from United Same AC flight fees are $37.10 $42.90 $37.10

Can you please kindly check for me in OZ website how much these award route fees will be?

Originally Posted by zeer0
I don't think AC awards bring any fuel surcharges. In my experience last year booking US-Europe in J taxes and fees came out to a total of $36 USD. If fuel surcharges had been levied (the way Aeroplan does) the fees would have been in the $200-300s.

Last edited by ecgz88; Apr 21, 2018 at 1:58 am
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Old Apr 21, 2018, 1:49 am
  #150  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 816
Originally Posted by truncated
google translate is your friend. also the website itself has a ton of popups when you open them so you just need to click ok and search lol.

it's a Popup I can't use google translate in webpage, anyway I use phone take picture then google translate it said " If the mileage of the passengers who are logged in is 0, you cannot proceed with family integration. "


I'm not sure — Canada-Japan in J on AC comes up with ~$100 in taxes/fees compared to $9.20 on UA.com. So not Aeroplan levels of fuel surcharges but definitely not zero like UA either.
UA.com will be $30 range due to Canada airport tax/fees
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