How will Amex counter the Chase Sapphire Reserve Card?
Sep 5, 2016, 7:57 pm
#136
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 495
That's the same Priority Pass that's offered on the Amex Platinum and Citi Prestige cards.....so your point is? If it wasn't worth it for the rich guys (as you suggest, and which I also assume is your assumption of their target audience) why would City Prestige and Amex Platinum offer it in the first place?
Sep 5, 2016, 8:24 pm
#137
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: IAH
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That's the same Priority Pass that's offered on the Amex Platinum and Citi Prestige cards.....so your point is? If it wasn't worth it for the rich guys (as you suggest, and which I also assume is your assumption of their target audience) why would City Prestige and Amex Platinum offer it in the first place?
IMO, truly well off people don't care about free admittance to 2nd tier airport lounges and will just go to a decently nice airport restaurant and pay for real food/drinks and be done with it.
Sep 5, 2016, 8:34 pm
#138
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS
Posts: 15,027
The greatest % of those applying for the Chase Sapphire Reserve are "the millenniums". Chase, perhaps inadvertently, but what now appears to be "pure genius", has attracted a new set of people to the premium card category -- those that realize that the $450 AF is EASILY offset by the $300 travel credit, and the $150 net annual fee is a relatively small price to pay to be in the premium crowd (sitting in airport lounges). New techies, graduates with a few year's experience, etc., drawing middle-class salaries, suddenly feel they have "upgraded status" - getting benefits (such as lounge access) that was previously mainly available to those who had plenty of money to spare. Chase is thereby attracting a whole new generation and Amex is losing that ship.
Sep 7, 2016, 8:08 am
#139
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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Posts: 10,130
I would like to see AMEX change the travel credit from $200 fee credit to just a straight travel credit on anything.
This would match both Citi Prestige and CSR and would seemingly be an easy shift. It would reduce complexity on our end and also remove the need to pre-select a carrier and jump through a few hoops to get a gift card or other similar to cash item.
This would match both Citi Prestige and CSR and would seemingly be an easy shift. It would reduce complexity on our end and also remove the need to pre-select a carrier and jump through a few hoops to get a gift card or other similar to cash item.
Sep 7, 2016, 8:27 am
#140
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Programs: Delta Diamond, Bonvoy something good; sometimes other things too
Posts: 5,050
I would like to see AMEX change the travel credit from $200 fee credit to just a straight travel credit on anything.
This would match both Citi Prestige and CSR and would seemingly be an easy shift. It would reduce complexity on our end and also remove the need to pre-select a carrier and jump through a few hoops to get a gift card or other similar to cash item.
This would match both Citi Prestige and CSR and would seemingly be an easy shift. It would reduce complexity on our end and also remove the need to pre-select a carrier and jump through a few hoops to get a gift card or other similar to cash item.
Whereas Citi and Chase, perhaps to get people especially excited about signing up for an expensive new card, have offered much more generous terms on their credits, to the point that for many customers, it would be just about impossible to avoid getting the credits, making it a much more "real" cost to the banks. I wouldn't be surprised if the terms on those credits are tightened up over time to something more like what Amex offers.
Sep 7, 2016, 8:59 am
#141
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: SFO
Posts: 3,881
Whereas Citi and Chase, perhaps to get people especially excited about signing up for an expensive new card, have offered much more generous terms on their credits, to the point that for many customers, it would be just about impossible to avoid getting the credits, making it a much more "real" cost to the banks. I wouldn't be surprised if the terms on those credits are tightened up over time to something more like what Amex offers.
Sep 7, 2016, 10:00 am
#142
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Join Date: Mar 2013
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Posts: 10,130
It seems likely that when Amex introduced the credit they expected some / many people not to get the full $200 of value. (Keep in mind that until a few years back, people paid the full $450 a year for the Amex Platinum without any $200 fee credit.)
Whereas Citi and Chase, perhaps to get people especially excited about signing up for an expensive new card, have offered much more generous terms on their credits, to the point that for many customers, it would be just about impossible to avoid getting the credits, making it a much more "real" cost to the banks. I wouldn't be surprised if the terms on those credits are tightened up over time to something more like what Amex offers.
Whereas Citi and Chase, perhaps to get people especially excited about signing up for an expensive new card, have offered much more generous terms on their credits, to the point that for many customers, it would be just about impossible to avoid getting the credits, making it a much more "real" cost to the banks. I wouldn't be surprised if the terms on those credits are tightened up over time to something more like what Amex offers.
Right now it's Prestige that actually is the king of my wallet (effective $200 AF plus over $1000 in savings on hotel stays this year and close to that booked for next year plus PP access with free guests has been useful this year and of course 3x airfare, 2x dining and entertainment is pretty solid with a sizeable SQ balance to transfer to) so now that I have Plat, I'm very curious to see whether it keeps a place in my wallet long-term even with the upcoming Prestige changes.
Sep 7, 2016, 10:25 am
#143
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: SFO
Posts: 3,881
Right now it's Prestige that actually is the king of my wallet (effective $200 AF plus over $1000 in savings on hotel stays this year and close to that booked for next year plus PP access with free guests has been useful this year and of course 3x airfare, 2x dining and entertainment is pretty solid with a sizeable SQ balance to transfer to) so now that I have Plat, I'm very curious to see whether it keeps a place in my wallet long-term even with the upcoming Prestige changes.
I have the CSR, Plat and the Prestige and usage in that order. The CSR gets most of my spending. The Plat is used on FHR, Amex offers, Ticketmasters, etc...primarily in scenarios where there is cash benefits. The Prestige is used only for the 4th night benefit...I may drop it next May when my AF hits.
Last edited by Troopers; Sep 7, 2016 at 10:31 am
Sep 8, 2016, 7:03 pm
#144
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: EWR
Programs: World of Hyatt, Marriott Bonvoy, Hilton Honors, UA Mileage Plus
Posts: 1,255
It seems likely that when Amex introduced the credit they expected some / many people not to get the full $200 of value. (Keep in mind that until a few years back, people paid the full $450 a year for the Amex Platinum without any $200 fee credit.)
Whereas Citi and Chase, perhaps to get people especially excited about signing up for an expensive new card, have offered much more generous terms on their credits, to the point that for many customers, it would be just about impossible to avoid getting the credits, making it a much more "real" cost to the banks. I wouldn't be surprised if the terms on those credits are tightened up over time to something more like what Amex offers.
Whereas Citi and Chase, perhaps to get people especially excited about signing up for an expensive new card, have offered much more generous terms on their credits, to the point that for many customers, it would be just about impossible to avoid getting the credits, making it a much more "real" cost to the banks. I wouldn't be surprised if the terms on those credits are tightened up over time to something more like what Amex offers.
Sep 9, 2016, 7:57 am
#145
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Programs: Delta Diamond, Bonvoy something good; sometimes other things too
Posts: 5,050
Between losing CO lounges and the later loss of AA lounge access, the Amex Plat became less valuable, but other things have replaced those benefits -- Amex Plat didn't used to give any PP access, and Centurion lounges in the US didn't exist back in the CO/AA access days either. (And while we're documenting history, there was a spell there for a while with US Airways lounge access too.)
You can debate whether AA/CO(/US) access was better or worse than Centurion/PP access, and it will vary depending on everyone's individual travel patterns, but it's hardly clear that the Plat has been on an exclusively downward trajectory. Not to mention there have been other changes over time, like the recent addition of Hilton Gold status.
So I think it is still fair to say that the Plat once cost a "real" $450 for a certain package of benefits, and now costs a "real" $250 for a different, but probably roughly similar overall package of benefits, though some cardmembers likely pay more than $250 due to not getting the full $200 credit value. But I think you could also argue that the Citi and Chase $450 cards offer a less comprehensive set of benefits than the Plat, which may be part of the reason why they choose to offer easier-to-use credits.
Sep 9, 2016, 9:52 am
#146
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: SFO
Posts: 3,881
...but it's hardly clear that the Plat has been on an exclusively downward trajectory. Not to mention there have been other changes over time, like the recent addition of Hilton Gold status.
So I think it is still fair to say that the Plat once cost a "real" $450 for a certain package of benefits, and now costs a "real" $250 for a different, but probably roughly similar overall package of benefits, though some cardmembers likely pay more than $250 due to not getting the full $200 credit value. But I think you could also argue that the Citi and Chase $450 cards offer a less comprehensive set of benefits than the Plat, which may be part of the reason why they choose to offer easier-to-use credits.
So I think it is still fair to say that the Plat once cost a "real" $450 for a certain package of benefits, and now costs a "real" $250 for a different, but probably roughly similar overall package of benefits, though some cardmembers likely pay more than $250 due to not getting the full $200 credit value. But I think you could also argue that the Citi and Chase $450 cards offer a less comprehensive set of benefits than the Plat, which may be part of the reason why they choose to offer easier-to-use credits.
Sep 9, 2016, 10:44 am
#147
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA MileagePlus (Premier Gold); Hilton HHonors (Gold); Chase Ultimate Rewards; Amex Plat
Posts: 6,680
Sep 9, 2016, 12:07 pm
#148
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: ATL
Posts: 802
I do not agree with this at all. Most folks who are wealthy got that way by pinching pennies, cutting coupons, and saving a hefty portion of their salary. Most wealth in the USA is NOT inherited. I can speak from having lived both ways. I always saved and invested 30% to 40% of my income. The fact is, once you become wealthy, old frugal habits are very hard to break. I still churn cards, try to buy only stuff that is on sale and am very happy to get free access to lounges and eat and drink just fair food and booze. I am proud to wear a $10 watch, drive a 12 year old car, and invest the rest in tax free bonds or other ways to grow wealth. Don't get me wrong I like to live life to the fullest extent possible. I travel constantly having filled up 4 passports. I just don't like to pay for hotels and airfare if I don't have to. Believe me, there are tons of wealthy folks who feel the same way.
Last edited by bigbuy; Sep 9, 2016 at 12:15 pm
Sep 9, 2016, 1:44 pm
#149
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2007
Programs: DL Silver, AS MVP, Marriott Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 180
Yes, IIRC it was when they lost Continental lounge access in the UA merger, and part of the selling point of the $200 credit was "you can buy one-time lounge access passes, or a lounge membership, and we will give you $200 off." Of course Flyertalkers quickly found other ways to take advantage of that credit.
Between losing CO lounges and the later loss of AA lounge access, the Amex Plat became less valuable, but other things have replaced those benefits -- Amex Plat didn't used to give any PP access, and Centurion lounges in the US didn't exist back in the CO/AA access days either. (And while we're documenting history, there was a spell there for a while with US Airways lounge access too.)
You can debate whether AA/CO(/US) access was better or worse than Centurion/PP access, and it will vary depending on everyone's individual travel patterns, but it's hardly clear that the Plat has been on an exclusively downward trajectory. Not to mention there have been other changes over time, like the recent addition of Hilton Gold status.
So I think it is still fair to say that the Plat once cost a "real" $450 for a certain package of benefits, and now costs a "real" $250 for a different, but probably roughly similar overall package of benefits, though some cardmembers likely pay more than $250 due to not getting the full $200 credit value. But I think you could also argue that the Citi and Chase $450 cards offer a less comprehensive set of benefits than the Plat, which may be part of the reason why they choose to offer easier-to-use credits.
Between losing CO lounges and the later loss of AA lounge access, the Amex Plat became less valuable, but other things have replaced those benefits -- Amex Plat didn't used to give any PP access, and Centurion lounges in the US didn't exist back in the CO/AA access days either. (And while we're documenting history, there was a spell there for a while with US Airways lounge access too.)
You can debate whether AA/CO(/US) access was better or worse than Centurion/PP access, and it will vary depending on everyone's individual travel patterns, but it's hardly clear that the Plat has been on an exclusively downward trajectory. Not to mention there have been other changes over time, like the recent addition of Hilton Gold status.
So I think it is still fair to say that the Plat once cost a "real" $450 for a certain package of benefits, and now costs a "real" $250 for a different, but probably roughly similar overall package of benefits, though some cardmembers likely pay more than $250 due to not getting the full $200 credit value. But I think you could also argue that the Citi and Chase $450 cards offer a less comprehensive set of benefits than the Plat, which may be part of the reason why they choose to offer easier-to-use credits.
the only downside, as others have mentioned, is there is limited benefit in using plat for everyday spend, such as dining. i use my plat for expensive and durable goods for the loss/refund protection. if amex gave 2x points and free travel insurance i would use it for all purchases.
Sep 9, 2016, 1:56 pm
#150
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brooklyn
Programs: Delta Diamond, Bonvoy something good; sometimes other things too
Posts: 5,050
+1, great summary! i dont think amex plat wants to attract customers that the csr is attracting. amex wants customers that will use benefits such as amex fhr.
the only downside, as others have mentioned, is there is limited benefit in using plat for everyday spend, such as dining. i use my plat for expensive and durable goods for the loss/refund protection. if amex gave 2x points and free travel insurance i would use it for all purchases.
the only downside, as others have mentioned, is there is limited benefit in using plat for everyday spend, such as dining. i use my plat for expensive and durable goods for the loss/refund protection. if amex gave 2x points and free travel insurance i would use it for all purchases.