Account Frozen/Audit - No Way to Respond?
Jan 10, 2020, 1:05 pm
#271
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,328
Yes it is worth it for people who fly a lot and hold high status with the airline. It’s not just about one’s current mileage inventory. My earning of 500,000 miles last year is likely to continue for the next decade so that’s mileage in the millions. Furthermore, the benefits of EXP or CK are worth it, not to mention the lifetime status. I’m closing in on 2MM and that’s a big lifetime benefit.
Jan 10, 2020, 4:18 pm
#272
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
For all the vitriol, AA's policy is pro consumer. While OP and a very few others may have been running a scam on AA, the vast majority of people in this situation have done so in error. For those people and given fluctuation in ticket pricing, the ability not to lose a price (even though it is not guaranteed until ticketed) is a big deal. On the flip side, for those who intentionally provide an expired card, although it will not likely be prosecuted, they are quite lucky to get off with an account termination or other internal penalty.
You generally want to inform of mistakes as early as possible -- that's when they require the least work to fix.
Jan 10, 2020, 4:29 pm
#273
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,815
That would be true if the tickets were refundable with a $200 penalty - for US domestic bookings, these would be non refundable with a $200 penalty to rebook. The customer committed to paying the entire amount of the ticket to the airline and agreeing to a penalty of $200 to make changes
Jan 10, 2020, 5:28 pm
#274
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,465
That would be true if the tickets were refundable with a $200 penalty - for US domestic bookings, these would be non refundable with a $200 penalty to rebook. The customer committed to paying the entire amount of the ticket to the airline and agreeing to a penalty of $200 to make changes
Jan 10, 2020, 5:31 pm
#275
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 19,922
Jan 10, 2020, 6:07 pm
#276
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
That would be true if the tickets were refundable with a $200 penalty - for US domestic bookings, these would be non refundable with a $200 penalty to rebook. The customer committed to paying the entire amount of the ticket to the airline and agreeing to a penalty of $200 to make changes
While this is not a lawsuit, that is what a lawsuit would look like if AA really did sue for the fraud.
Jan 10, 2020, 6:22 pm
#277
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: SNA
Programs: AA EXP, UA 1K (until it expires then never again), *wood Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 9,243
Jan 10, 2020, 6:26 pm
#278
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: SNA
Programs: AA EXP, UA 1K (until it expires then never again), *wood Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 9,243
I'd suspect that if the OP were to do that, which I don't think they would as they seem sensible, that now that AA cannot go after his account they'd go after his wallet and sue for damages.
Jan 10, 2020, 11:37 pm
#279
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,876
Jan 10, 2020, 11:51 pm
#280
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: SNA
Programs: AA EXP, UA 1K (until it expires then never again), *wood Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 9,243
Not sure who we is, and I'm not a lawyer so perhaps you're correct, but knowingly using a payment card that is invalid seems a lot like writing a bad check to me, and to do so after being called out on it, admitting what you did was wrong would not look good at all in a case. I could see playing dumb before this thread and their letter but if someone did it again after all this with all thats been posted here...seems to me that they SHOULD have a basis. That said even if AA can't win I wouldn't test them, if they sue it costs them nothing and you have to pay for a lawyer so you lose even if you win.
Jan 11, 2020, 12:02 am
#281
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 10,904
There are many on this thread who have conflated money damages from a contractual obligation. The damages here may be close to nothing, but that does not change the fact that the passenger entered a contract to pay $x as consideration for a ticket and failed to pay that consideration. Thus, he owes $x.
While this is not a lawsuit, that is what a lawsuit would look like if AA really did sue for the fraud.
While this is not a lawsuit, that is what a lawsuit would look like if AA really did sue for the fraud.
Remedies for Breach of Contract ? Judicial Education Center
TL;DR: Compensatory damages are limited by the amount required to make the claimant whole again.
Jan 11, 2020, 12:11 am
#282
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,876
Not sure who we is, and I'm not a lawyer so perhaps you're correct, but knowingly using a payment card that is invalid seems a lot like writing a bad check to me, and to do so after being called out on it, admitting what you did was wrong would not look good at all in a case. I could see playing dumb before this thread and their letter but if someone did it again after all this with all thats been posted here...seems to me that they SHOULD have a basis. That said even if AA can't win I wouldn't test them, if they sue it costs them nothing and you have to pay for a lawyer so you lose even if you win.
And anyway, what did the OP gain? So paying with an invalid credit card the OP got what? A flight? Nope, no flight.
And what do you think happens to people who write bad checks? They get put in jail? Tell me about a corporation that has "gone after" someone for writing bad checks. I doubt there are any major corporations that have done that. If it is bad enough, the feds might go after them, but that is something else completely.
Oh yeah, fyi, I got a fake check before. I notified the police. They laughed, not big enough to be worth our time. It was $2k.
People like to say you can sue for this or that, the company will sue you, etc. Law isn't that simple here. And lawyers' time isn't free. I don't know where you got that idea.
Jan 11, 2020, 12:16 am
#283
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,876
I just looked it up cause I think this is outdated information. And the change fee for an international ticket (e.g. SFO HKG) is $250. So, I don't think it is more.
I do think the change fees for business class tickets seem to be higher (though I don't know how to classify saver tickets, cause I guess those have an infinite change fee?).
I do think the change fees for business class tickets seem to be higher (though I don't know how to classify saver tickets, cause I guess those have an infinite change fee?).
Jan 11, 2020, 12:23 am
#284
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: SNA
Programs: AA EXP, UA 1K (until it expires then never again), *wood Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 9,243
Why do you think it costs AA nothing to take him to court?
And anyway, what did the OP gain? So paying with an invalid credit card the OP got what? A flight? Nope, no flight.
And what do you think happens to people who write bad checks? They get put in jail? Tell me about a corporation that has "gone after" someone for writing bad checks. I doubt there are any major corporations that have done that. If it is bad enough, the feds might go after them, but that is something else completely.
Oh yeah, fyi, I got a fake check before. I notified the police. They laughed, not big enough to be worth our time. It was $2k.
People like to say you can sue for this or that, the company will sue you, etc. Law isn't that simple here. And lawyers' time isn't free. I don't know where you got that idea.
And anyway, what did the OP gain? So paying with an invalid credit card the OP got what? A flight? Nope, no flight.
And what do you think happens to people who write bad checks? They get put in jail? Tell me about a corporation that has "gone after" someone for writing bad checks. I doubt there are any major corporations that have done that. If it is bad enough, the feds might go after them, but that is something else completely.
Oh yeah, fyi, I got a fake check before. I notified the police. They laughed, not big enough to be worth our time. It was $2k.
People like to say you can sue for this or that, the company will sue you, etc. Law isn't that simple here. And lawyers' time isn't free. I don't know where you got that idea.
Jan 11, 2020, 12:36 am
#285
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 7,876
AA, like all companies, have lawyers on staff and outside council who they pay lots of $ to and for the most part consider fixed costs. While perhaps not $0.00 the financial impact to AA for filing a suit would be far less, if not de minimis, as compared to an individual who has to respond to that suit and obtain their own lawyer. I'm quite sure people have sued over bad checks, I know this because I too did so, albeit in small claims and the defendant was judgment proof so yeah I ended up getting nothing more than upset. I very much doubt the feds would go after someone the first go, if you did it again after admitting what you did was wrong...most likely you are right and they have bigger fish but why test it? I'm not saying that if he did it again AA would rain financial ruin up him via the courts, I was responding to a question about what they might do and to make a point - especially for a repeat offender, if I was AA I'd throw some budget a suit just to make a point.
I understand when Air Canada did it it made the news.
I don't think AA is run by people that stupid to realize that it isn't a task you take lightly, "suing" your customers. After all, this is America. Where the big corporation is always in the wrong.