Speculation: Will AA continue to pull back in NYC?
Apr 23, 2019, 2:47 pm
#736
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Long TPG interview with Vasu Raja that touches a lot on NYC strategy.
https://thepointsguy.com/news/talkin...ing-vasu-raja/
https://thepointsguy.com/news/talkin...ing-vasu-raja/
Apr 23, 2019, 4:15 pm
#737
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I wonder if DL thinks of JFK the same way as AA thinks of JFK. DL seems to be much more about a diversified international route network out of JFK than AA, and yet I would say that DL seems to have beat AA in NYC for O&D and that DL has a heavy emphasis on attracting the NYC premium traveler.
If AA's international flying out of JFK hasn't been that much of a useful money-maker for AA, how come DL seems to have found a way to make JFK work for it?
Apr 23, 2019, 4:28 pm
#738
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So the NYC premium traveler only ever takes flights to London, LA & SF, I guess?
Don't we ever go to the Caribbean for a holiday......places in FL other than Miami etc. The pulldown in routes makes me book elsewhere like on Delta. Then you see that Delta actually operates on-time, and wow the people are so nice, the App experience is so much better. This then makes me want to fly Delta more.......it's a downward spiral AA is creating for themselves in NYC.
Don't we ever go to the Caribbean for a holiday......places in FL other than Miami etc. The pulldown in routes makes me book elsewhere like on Delta. Then you see that Delta actually operates on-time, and wow the people are so nice, the App experience is so much better. This then makes me want to fly Delta more.......it's a downward spiral AA is creating for themselves in NYC.
Apr 23, 2019, 4:57 pm
#739
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The frequent-flying, masochistic premium travelers must just love the idea of flying AA to LHR to connect to premium traveler destinations on BA. Sounds bloody awful, because it is LHR and BA.
Apr 23, 2019, 5:25 pm
#740
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Apr 23, 2019, 5:35 pm
#741
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It sounds like AA@JFK won't be doing a whole lot more diversifying of its international route network out of JFK anytime soon, especially as AA seems to do anything but expand its domestic feed into JFK for onward international trips and seems to want to send feed elsewhere, particularly PHL.
I wonder if DL thinks of JFK the same way as AA thinks of JFK. DL seems to be much more about a diversified international route network out of JFK than AA, and yet I would say that DL seems to have beat AA in NYC for O&D and that DL has a heavy emphasis on attracting the NYC premium traveler.
If AA's international flying out of JFK hasn't been that much of a useful money-maker for AA, how come DL seems to have found a way to make JFK work for it?
I wonder if DL thinks of JFK the same way as AA thinks of JFK. DL seems to be much more about a diversified international route network out of JFK than AA, and yet I would say that DL seems to have beat AA in NYC for O&D and that DL has a heavy emphasis on attracting the NYC premium traveler.
If AA's international flying out of JFK hasn't been that much of a useful money-maker for AA, how come DL seems to have found a way to make JFK work for it?
You have a point but AA looks less down the road and sees PHL. I do have to wonder how is it that DL seems to make JFK work but AA can’t or DL’s ability to compete against B6. My hunch is Parker never has and never will slug it out in NYC. Look at what he did pre merger with US. He’s more than satisfied with his fortress hubs.
Apr 23, 2019, 5:54 pm
#743
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Chairman Parker prefers to be the biggest player in the arena and not compete. PMUS de-hubbed PIT for part of that reason. NYC is a difficult market and using it as a hub is not cheap and has a load of competition. IF PMAA used the "Four Corners Strategy" post-merger AA uses the "Fortress Hub Strategy" with the main fortresses being DFW and CLT.
Should also note that the old AA did not use JFK as a true hub either. For example, CLT itself, many upstate NY locations, most of the Carolinas (other than RDU) had no nonstops into JFK. Current AA management also is clearly not interested in making JFK a true hub for better or worse.
Safe Travels
Should also note that the old AA did not use JFK as a true hub either. For example, CLT itself, many upstate NY locations, most of the Carolinas (other than RDU) had no nonstops into JFK. Current AA management also is clearly not interested in making JFK a true hub for better or worse.
Safe Travels
Apr 23, 2019, 6:03 pm
#744
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You have a point but AA looks less down the road and sees PHL. I do have to wonder how is it that DL seems to make JFK work but AA can’t or DL’s ability to compete against B6. My hunch is Parker never has and never will slug it out in NYC. Look at what he did pre merger with US. He’s more than satisfied with his fortress hubs.
Perhaps Parker read too much about how it's not worth being in a market if you can't be number 1 or 2 (or perhaps not even 3)? Given what he's done to ORD too, it seems he doesn't want to even suffer being number 2. And yet his airline is probably not deserving of more than a 3rd place finish when placed against DL and UA.
Last edited by GUWonder; Apr 23, 2019 at 6:08 pm
Apr 23, 2019, 8:41 pm
#745
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What I took from Raja's interview is what we've known all along - the strategy at JFK is for premium passenger O&D. That's great for NYC based fliers who want to go to a handful of OW destinations. Anyone else in the country can funnel through PHL and CLT where there aren't expensive slot restrictions that drags down the bottom line.
Apr 23, 2019, 9:05 pm
#746
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Wasn't the pre-Parker US heavily banked into PHL and CLT as transit hubs for US's international service, with NYC on its backburner but for the exception of the US Shuttle and some domestic service to NYC/LGA? And yet US seemed to go from being financially on the path of the dodo to being on the path of the dodo to being on the path of the dodo using a strategy that Parker's AA seems to have bought into hook, line and sinker. The difference this time is that the AA has the benefit of being one of the US3 cartel industry kingpins in what is a much more oligopolistic market than before. But for how much longer can that work to the advantage of AA management?
Perhaps Parker read too much about how it's not worth being in a market if you can't be number 1 or 2 (or perhaps not even 3)? Given what he's done to ORD too, it seems he doesn't want to even suffer being number 2. And yet his airline is probably not deserving of more than a 3rd place finish when placed against DL and UA.
Perhaps Parker read too much about how it's not worth being in a market if you can't be number 1 or 2 (or perhaps not even 3)? Given what he's done to ORD too, it seems he doesn't want to even suffer being number 2. And yet his airline is probably not deserving of more than a 3rd place finish when placed against DL and UA.
(DL has to make a go of it at JFK because they don't have a lot of other options -- cue the "you can get there, but you have to connect in Atlanta" jokes; UA has a sizable operation at EWR, but also has IAD as a more conveniently-placed east-coast hub)
Apr 23, 2019, 9:16 pm
#747
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Regarding another poster's comment, I really doubt most flyers consider how far out of the way a connecting airport is, or not at least with PHL vs JFK. It's not like JFK was losing connecting pax to PHL. Or at least not that I'm aware of. It was a purposeful move by leadership to keep JFK more Premium O&D oriented. Something flyers and AA do consider is price. Specifically for AA, it's not just about profitability, its about where they can make the *most* money flying a certain aircraft. It appears like they have found that JFK is too competitive and too expensive and PHL is just better for connecting TATL pax.
Edit: If ubernostrum was referring to all the ATC/weather delays that come from geography, then yes, JFK is terrible.
Apr 23, 2019, 9:16 pm
#748
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On my personal list, would like AA to serve YVR, DEN, SCL, which I think would have enough "premium" demand, but doubt that'll happen.
Apr 23, 2019, 9:41 pm
#749
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Apr 23, 2019, 10:07 pm
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