May 22, 2017, 12:11 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
SUMMARY OF EVENTS (link):
Passenger flying MIA-LAX on a Boeing 777-300ER on a paid Business Class ticket (all aisle lie flat seat compartments).
"Upon boarding, a passenger seated in the row behind her got on 'with a rather large dog' who she says 'tried to jump on' her" (G Leff). Seeking re accommodation in the cabin, she was shown a seat in the aft of the Business cabin, near a smaller dog. Passenger claims she has allergies.
The passenger's statement as quoted by Gary Leff:
Passenger flying MIA-LAX on a Boeing 777-300ER on a paid Business Class ticket (all aisle lie flat seat compartments).
"Upon boarding, a passenger seated in the row behind her got on 'with a rather large dog' who she says 'tried to jump on' her" (G Leff). Seeking re accommodation in the cabin, she was shown a seat in the aft of the Business cabin, near a smaller dog. Passenger claims she has allergies.
The passenger's statement as quoted by Gary Leff:
I said to a[.. flight attendant] that I hope we don’t need to make an unplanned stop to which she replied “we don’t want that to happen” I replied that I didn’t want that to happen either.
I returned to my seat and did my best to shield myself from the dog.
A few minutes later the [gate agent] came up to me and said that I had to get off the flight. I thought he was joking but when I realized that he wasn’t, I complied as I know the FAA rules concerning crew member compliance.
As I disembarked, a few of the [flight attendants] were applauding and cheering because I was being removed.
I returned to my seat and did my best to shield myself from the dog.
A few minutes later the [gate agent] came up to me and said that I had to get off the flight. I thought he was joking but when I realized that he wasn’t, I complied as I know the FAA rules concerning crew member compliance.
As I disembarked, a few of the [flight attendants] were applauding and cheering because I was being removed.
Dog Allergic J Pax Implies She Might Cause Diversion Due to Dogs, Offloaded
May 22, 2017, 1:14 am
#76
Suspended
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AC SE100K-1MM, NH, DL, AA, BA, Global Entry/Nexus, APEC..
Posts: 18,877
The mods can certainly changed the title.
May 22, 2017, 12:23 pm
#77
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
The thread title has been edited to conform with a broader and objective set of facts. skylady is correct: the implied threat to cause a flight diversion due to being seated near dogs caused the passenger to be removed.
The proper way to deal with a concern about a post, thread title etc. is to use the post report button -
.
The issues regarding Service and Emotional Support Animals will not be resolved in this thread; they are within the purview of Federal laws in the case of the former, and of the airline and Federal authorities in the latter case. Please help keep this thread on topic.
/Moderator
The proper way to deal with a concern about a post, thread title etc. is to use the post report button -
The issues regarding Service and Emotional Support Animals will not be resolved in this thread; they are within the purview of Federal laws in the case of the former, and of the airline and Federal authorities in the latter case. Please help keep this thread on topic.
/Moderator
May 22, 2017, 4:57 pm
#79
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,239
You could say the same thing about someone whose doctor prescribed them Prozac, no? As JonNYC said...
May 22, 2017, 6:05 pm
#80
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: I 35 south bound, finally stopped
Programs: LT Plt, 4mm, *A GLD, burned out medical provider, executing our estate plan
Posts: 1,665
Medical Professional here- I have never been asked to write a letter justifying an emotional support animal. I don't know any of my co-workers who have done that. Our profession is actually likely to have somebody do that, but none have that I know of.
Animal dander will stay in the plane after an animal has flown in it despite the best efforts of the clean up crew. Even if the "allergic" person boards with no animals around, they still may have symptoms from the residual dander. Then, mid flight, they may have laryngospasm or bronchospasm which will cause the plane to make an unscheduled stop due to passenger respiratory distress and screw with everyone's travel plans. This is like factories that have products that may overlap peanut processing and have warnings. So in my opinion, it is more probable than not, that a "service" animal on a plane, not with a blind person, may not be a "true" emotional support animal. We have many of those in our hospital and I pet them on a weekly basis, but I don't see them on the plane. For your education (not shooting from the hip).
http://www.lung.org/our-initiatives/...ww.google.com/
http://www.webmd.com/allergies/allergy-statistics
TL;DR- There is a medical reason to prevent sketchy support animals in the plane cabin.
https://www.uptodate.com/contents/tr...ond-the-basics
Animal danders — Animal dander is made up of the dead skin cells or scales (like dandruff) that are constantly shed by animals. Asthma can be triggered by proteins from the "dander," saliva, and urine of common house pets, such as cats and dogs. Any breed of dog and cat is capable of being allergenic, although the levels given off by individual animals may vary to some degree. In cats, the protein that causes most people's allergies is found in the cat's saliva, skin glands, and urinary/reproductive tract. Accordingly, short-haired cats are not necessarily less allergenic than long-haired animals, and furless cats have allergens that are similar to furred cats.
Other warm-blooded animals, such as rodents, birds, and ferrets can also trigger asthma in an allergic individual. Pets without feathers or fur, such as reptiles, turtles, and fish, rarely cause allergy, although deposits of fish food that build up under the covers of fish tanks are an excellent source of food for dust mite colonies.
If a person with asthma is found to be allergic to a pet, the most effective option is to remove the pet from the home. Limiting an animal to a certain area in the house is not effective because some allergens are carried on clothing or spread in the air. Once a pet has left a home, careful cleaning of carpets, sofas, curtain, and bedding must follow. This is particularly true for cat allergens because they are "sticky" and adhere to a variety of indoor surfaces. Even after a cat has been removed from a home and it has been thoroughly cleaned, it can take months for the level of cat allergens to drop. For this reason, it may take months for the allergic person's symptoms to fully reflect the absence of the pet.
If it is not possible to remove the animal, measures can be taken to decrease exposure to the animal dander (table 2), although none of these methods is as effective as removing the animal.
Animal dander will stay in the plane after an animal has flown in it despite the best efforts of the clean up crew. Even if the "allergic" person boards with no animals around, they still may have symptoms from the residual dander. Then, mid flight, they may have laryngospasm or bronchospasm which will cause the plane to make an unscheduled stop due to passenger respiratory distress and screw with everyone's travel plans. This is like factories that have products that may overlap peanut processing and have warnings. So in my opinion, it is more probable than not, that a "service" animal on a plane, not with a blind person, may not be a "true" emotional support animal. We have many of those in our hospital and I pet them on a weekly basis, but I don't see them on the plane. For your education (not shooting from the hip).
http://www.lung.org/our-initiatives/...ww.google.com/
http://www.webmd.com/allergies/allergy-statistics
TL;DR- There is a medical reason to prevent sketchy support animals in the plane cabin.
https://www.uptodate.com/contents/tr...ond-the-basics
Animal danders — Animal dander is made up of the dead skin cells or scales (like dandruff) that are constantly shed by animals. Asthma can be triggered by proteins from the "dander," saliva, and urine of common house pets, such as cats and dogs. Any breed of dog and cat is capable of being allergenic, although the levels given off by individual animals may vary to some degree. In cats, the protein that causes most people's allergies is found in the cat's saliva, skin glands, and urinary/reproductive tract. Accordingly, short-haired cats are not necessarily less allergenic than long-haired animals, and furless cats have allergens that are similar to furred cats.
Other warm-blooded animals, such as rodents, birds, and ferrets can also trigger asthma in an allergic individual. Pets without feathers or fur, such as reptiles, turtles, and fish, rarely cause allergy, although deposits of fish food that build up under the covers of fish tanks are an excellent source of food for dust mite colonies.
If a person with asthma is found to be allergic to a pet, the most effective option is to remove the pet from the home. Limiting an animal to a certain area in the house is not effective because some allergens are carried on clothing or spread in the air. Once a pet has left a home, careful cleaning of carpets, sofas, curtain, and bedding must follow. This is particularly true for cat allergens because they are "sticky" and adhere to a variety of indoor surfaces. Even after a cat has been removed from a home and it has been thoroughly cleaned, it can take months for the level of cat allergens to drop. For this reason, it may take months for the allergic person's symptoms to fully reflect the absence of the pet.
If it is not possible to remove the animal, measures can be taken to decrease exposure to the animal dander (table 2), although none of these methods is as effective as removing the animal.
Last edited by boerne; May 22, 2017 at 6:12 pm Reason: hedging language appropriate to a medical professional.
I mean, I wouldn't expect, say, an anesthesiologist, to have been asked that either.
May 22, 2017, 8:19 pm
#82
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: I 35 south bound, finally stopped
Programs: LT Plt, 4mm, *A GLD, burned out medical provider, executing our estate plan
Posts: 1,665
May 23, 2017, 9:21 am
#83
Join Date: Aug 2003
Programs: Bonvoy Amb; AA EXP
Posts: 1,136
I've had a few experiences with a range of interactions. Frankly, if the animal can fit under the seat in front of you, I can asked to be moved due to allergies. However, I can attest to having a cat lady sit next to you who has loads of dander on her sweater is way worse than any under seat animal. It's a toss up as to whether I would rather have a small allergic reaction or have to deal with bad body odor (which I think isn't a companion or a service animal.)
It is a whole separate thing when you have a giant dog that takes up more than the owner's seat. I was in the last row of F on a LAX-BOS transcon where there was a near melee between a passenger who had selected the bulkhead for his legroom and a large service dog who spanned the legroom for both the middle and aisle seat passengers. I think it was justified to raise an issue. Of course the plane was sold out and finding someone willing to sit in the seat space partially occupied by the dog was impossible. Sorry that I don't recall what the solution was, but based on the dog's behavior, I doubted at the time that it was a trained service dog. It was pretty rambunctious.
It is a whole separate thing when you have a giant dog that takes up more than the owner's seat. I was in the last row of F on a LAX-BOS transcon where there was a near melee between a passenger who had selected the bulkhead for his legroom and a large service dog who spanned the legroom for both the middle and aisle seat passengers. I think it was justified to raise an issue. Of course the plane was sold out and finding someone willing to sit in the seat space partially occupied by the dog was impossible. Sorry that I don't recall what the solution was, but based on the dog's behavior, I doubted at the time that it was a trained service dog. It was pretty rambunctious.
May 23, 2017, 9:59 am
#84
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: OKC
Programs: IHG Spire, National Exec, AA Plat
Posts: 2,274
May 23, 2017, 11:27 am
#86
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: AA LT Gold
Posts: 3,646
As per
https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/...ce-animals.jsp
To travel with an emotional support or psychiatric service animal in the cabin you must provide supporting documentation dated within 1 year of your scheduled flight. It must be from a licensed mental health professional or a medical doctor
May 23, 2017, 11:44 am
#87
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: OKC
Programs: IHG Spire, National Exec, AA Plat
Posts: 2,274
That was exactly the point. Both (supposedly) provide a level of mental stability for the patient. One has the potential to disrupt other passengers either via medical/allergic reaction, or by general annoyance and misbehavior. The other does not take up any space, make any noise, or cause any allergic reaction just by being in the general area.
May 23, 2017, 2:23 pm
#88
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia
Programs: BA GGL, FPC Plat, HH Diamond, IHG Amb
Posts: 3,372
My idea of an emotional support animal.
May 23, 2017, 7:19 pm
#90
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: I 35 south bound, finally stopped
Programs: LT Plt, 4mm, *A GLD, burned out medical provider, executing our estate plan
Posts: 1,665
Any MD can write one, including somebody who is retired, or not board certified, or your next door neighbor, so yes its pretty easy. And cats are way worse than dogs, if you look at the links I provided. Most anesthesiologists are MDs or DOs, and they can do the letter. Bring on the pitbulls....
Last edited by boerne; May 23, 2017 at 7:22 pm Reason: more detail