May 22, 2017, 12:11 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
SUMMARY OF EVENTS (link):
Passenger flying MIA-LAX on a Boeing 777-300ER on a paid Business Class ticket (all aisle lie flat seat compartments).
"Upon boarding, a passenger seated in the row behind her got on 'with a rather large dog' who she says 'tried to jump on' her" (G Leff). Seeking re accommodation in the cabin, she was shown a seat in the aft of the Business cabin, near a smaller dog. Passenger claims she has allergies.
The passenger's statement as quoted by Gary Leff:
Passenger flying MIA-LAX on a Boeing 777-300ER on a paid Business Class ticket (all aisle lie flat seat compartments).
"Upon boarding, a passenger seated in the row behind her got on 'with a rather large dog' who she says 'tried to jump on' her" (G Leff). Seeking re accommodation in the cabin, she was shown a seat in the aft of the Business cabin, near a smaller dog. Passenger claims she has allergies.
The passenger's statement as quoted by Gary Leff:
I said to a[.. flight attendant] that I hope we don’t need to make an unplanned stop to which she replied “we don’t want that to happen” I replied that I didn’t want that to happen either.
I returned to my seat and did my best to shield myself from the dog.
A few minutes later the [gate agent] came up to me and said that I had to get off the flight. I thought he was joking but when I realized that he wasn’t, I complied as I know the FAA rules concerning crew member compliance.
As I disembarked, a few of the [flight attendants] were applauding and cheering because I was being removed.
I returned to my seat and did my best to shield myself from the dog.
A few minutes later the [gate agent] came up to me and said that I had to get off the flight. I thought he was joking but when I realized that he wasn’t, I complied as I know the FAA rules concerning crew member compliance.
As I disembarked, a few of the [flight attendants] were applauding and cheering because I was being removed.
Dog Allergic J Pax Implies She Might Cause Diversion Due to Dogs, Offloaded
May 19, 2017, 5:05 pm
#31
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Valid points in this thread on too many pets being flown with a service jacket ($2 on ebay) but story seems incomplete and/or unsubstantiated.
May 19, 2017, 5:13 pm
#32
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Brings to mind this legendary thread in the old United forum: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...ce-animal.html
May 19, 2017, 5:29 pm
#33
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Anyone know what kind of dog it was?
May 19, 2017, 5:37 pm
#34
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As per AA's website:
https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/...ce-animals.jsp
Emotional support or psychiatric service animals
To travel with an emotional support or psychiatric service animal in the cabin you must provide supporting documentation dated within 1 year of your scheduled flight. It must be from a licensed mental health professional or a medical doctor and state:
That you have a mental or emotional disability recognized in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders
That you need the emotional support or psychiatric service animal as an accommodation for air travel and/or for activity at your destination
That the individual providing the assessment is a licensed mental health professional or medical doctor, and you are under his or her professional care
The date and type of the mental health professional or medical doctor's license and the state or other jurisdiction where it was issued
You’ll also need to contact American Reservations at least 48 hours before your flight and submit the required documentation.
If we’re unable to validate your documentation or if you didn’t notify us at least 48 hours before your flight, the animal may need to be checked and travel in a kennel.
To travel with an emotional support or psychiatric service animal in the cabin you must provide supporting documentation dated within 1 year of your scheduled flight. It must be from a licensed mental health professional or a medical doctor and state:
That you have a mental or emotional disability recognized in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders
That you need the emotional support or psychiatric service animal as an accommodation for air travel and/or for activity at your destination
That the individual providing the assessment is a licensed mental health professional or medical doctor, and you are under his or her professional care
The date and type of the mental health professional or medical doctor's license and the state or other jurisdiction where it was issued
You’ll also need to contact American Reservations at least 48 hours before your flight and submit the required documentation.
If we’re unable to validate your documentation or if you didn’t notify us at least 48 hours before your flight, the animal may need to be checked and travel in a kennel.
Does everybody that have an emotional support animal really send their documents 48 hours prior to flying? and do the Gate Agents have a way to see that people actually sent in the paper work? Do they check for the documents at check-in at gate and then onboard?
May 19, 2017, 5:55 pm
#35
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This is the type of situation that will *hopefully* get the airlines to rethink policy on emotional support animals
May 19, 2017, 5:57 pm
#36
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May 19, 2017, 7:05 pm
#37
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The statement the passenger made - "I hope we don't have to make an unplanned stop" - comes across as a threat that she will become unruly in the air. AA did the right thing by removing her... but the report that the crew applauded her removal is not a good thing. There is only one side of the story here, and those who feel as though an injustice has been committed against them tend to grossly exaggerate, so I'm not putting any stock in it.
May 19, 2017, 7:27 pm
#38
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To me it goes 100% without saying that IF there's even a semblance of truth to the crew applauding thing then a WHOLE lot of intervening conversation took place that is not being reported. I really have to wonder what some of the unreported dialog might be, and, how/if her position at the FAA was mentioned/used, or, conversely, worked against her even.
May 19, 2017, 8:15 pm
#39
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Yes indeed. I was on a UA domestic when the huge fluffy "emotional support" dog across the aisle from me (I switched seats since I'm allergic to dogs), barfed and started eating it. Seatbelt sign was on and no one answered the call button, so I tried to get the attention of the FA in Biz class, who waved back.
I finally got out of my seat and told her what happened and a colleague from the back came and cleaned up.
Another time, the "emotional support" dog pooped in the aisle and the FA gave a plastic bag and towels to the owner.
I finally got out of my seat and told her what happened and a colleague from the back came and cleaned up.
Another time, the "emotional support" dog pooped in the aisle and the FA gave a plastic bag and towels to the owner.
May 19, 2017, 8:47 pm
#40
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Q: Did anyone take the time to click and read the follow through link on the original story page? It doesn't seem like it. Everyone is jumping to blame the dogs when the real story here is about an allergy suffer who thinks the world should revolve around her and her allergy or zoophobia.
Here's the link in case you missed it:
9 tips for planning to deal with pet allergies on-board
http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea....ed-flight-cat/
Whether or not the dogs were paid pets, ESA or other - more legitimate - support animals is irrelevant.
A) If you have an extreme allergy to animals or zoophobia. Figure out what works best for you IN ADVANCE. The onus is on you, not the flight crew on the day of the flight to figure out what works best for you.
B) As was said, "What's to say the next flight won't also have dogs that might trigger her allergies and require an unplanned stop?"
C) An attempt to re-accommodate was made. When she found that offer unacceptable she had to go. End of story.
D) It all boils down to the needs of the many (all passengers on that flight) outweigh the needs of the few, or one as the case may be. She had to go when she threatened the potential for an "... unplanned stop" due to a potential allergic reaction (either mental or physical) to the dogs. Clearly the flight arrived safely without her on board or we would have heard about the "vicious dog attack" already and we'd be talking about that in this thread instead of the supposedly "highly allergic" passenger who was removed.
There are people who just simply have an aversion to dogs and simply being in the presence of them makes them physically ill. People who consider a friendly sniff of the dog or a brush of the dogs tail against their body as a physical attack by the dog. Whether or not the first dog did “tried to jump on” her I can't say but I believe the scenario I describe above is a very likely possibility.
Having said that, yes. I agree. The ESA animals are an abuse of the system but that's a topic for another day. This thread should stick to allergy/zoophobia suffers and their interactions with pets on board.
Here's the link in case you missed it:
9 tips for planning to deal with pet allergies on-board
http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea....ed-flight-cat/
Whether or not the dogs were paid pets, ESA or other - more legitimate - support animals is irrelevant.
A) If you have an extreme allergy to animals or zoophobia. Figure out what works best for you IN ADVANCE. The onus is on you, not the flight crew on the day of the flight to figure out what works best for you.
B) As was said, "What's to say the next flight won't also have dogs that might trigger her allergies and require an unplanned stop?"
C) An attempt to re-accommodate was made. When she found that offer unacceptable she had to go. End of story.
D) It all boils down to the needs of the many (all passengers on that flight) outweigh the needs of the few, or one as the case may be. She had to go when she threatened the potential for an "... unplanned stop" due to a potential allergic reaction (either mental or physical) to the dogs. Clearly the flight arrived safely without her on board or we would have heard about the "vicious dog attack" already and we'd be talking about that in this thread instead of the supposedly "highly allergic" passenger who was removed.
There are people who just simply have an aversion to dogs and simply being in the presence of them makes them physically ill. People who consider a friendly sniff of the dog or a brush of the dogs tail against their body as a physical attack by the dog. Whether or not the first dog did “tried to jump on” her I can't say but I believe the scenario I describe above is a very likely possibility.
Having said that, yes. I agree. The ESA animals are an abuse of the system but that's a topic for another day. This thread should stick to allergy/zoophobia suffers and their interactions with pets on board.
Last edited by KenTarmac; May 19, 2017 at 8:52 pm
May 19, 2017, 8:58 pm
#41
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Leff's blog contained zero evidence that the dog in question was an emotional support animal.
Nevertheless, Leff went off on a rant about emotional support animals, a mistake repeated by the OP of this thread. Half the posts in this thread are off-topic rants about emotional support animals and whether they are legitimate.
According to Leff's blog, the drama queen EXP claimed that the dog "tried to jump" on her. Not that the dog did jump on her. That one transgression (attempting to jump) shouldn't cause the dog and its owner to be off-loaded.
If she's allergic to dogs, she needs to shut her mouth and take her Benadryl or Claritin-D. If she's deathly allergic (extremely unlikey), she needs to make sure she always travels with an epi-pen.
Taking everything posted in Leff's blog as true, she was not off-loaded because she complained about sitting near a large dog. She was off-loaded because she not-so-subtly threatened the crew that her allergies, if not accommodated, could result in a diversion. As soon as she opened her big mouth and made that threat, she should have begun packing up her stuff and calling to be rebooked on another flight. A 77W is a very expensive plane to land - and AA doesn't fly people who threaten to cause a mid-flight diversion.
About allergic passengers v service/emotional support animals: the regulations implementing the ACAA lean in favor of the dog-handling passenger. The federal guidance suggests that the airline re-seat the allergic passenger, but warns that re-booking the allergic passenger is the next step.
Nevertheless, Leff went off on a rant about emotional support animals, a mistake repeated by the OP of this thread. Half the posts in this thread are off-topic rants about emotional support animals and whether they are legitimate.
According to Leff's blog, the drama queen EXP claimed that the dog "tried to jump" on her. Not that the dog did jump on her. That one transgression (attempting to jump) shouldn't cause the dog and its owner to be off-loaded.
If she's allergic to dogs, she needs to shut her mouth and take her Benadryl or Claritin-D. If she's deathly allergic (extremely unlikey), she needs to make sure she always travels with an epi-pen.
Taking everything posted in Leff's blog as true, she was not off-loaded because she complained about sitting near a large dog. She was off-loaded because she not-so-subtly threatened the crew that her allergies, if not accommodated, could result in a diversion. As soon as she opened her big mouth and made that threat, she should have begun packing up her stuff and calling to be rebooked on another flight. A 77W is a very expensive plane to land - and AA doesn't fly people who threaten to cause a mid-flight diversion.
About allergic passengers v service/emotional support animals: the regulations implementing the ACAA lean in favor of the dog-handling passenger. The federal guidance suggests that the airline re-seat the allergic passenger, but warns that re-booking the allergic passenger is the next step.
May 19, 2017, 9:11 pm
#42
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Read my first line in my OP:
.....
IMHO
If this is what happened, then AA has a serious problem.
You can all feel free to disagree, but if the crew did indeed applaud when she left the aircraft, then no one has learned a thing in the past month.
The emotional support animal free-for-all is also out of control. Not only are large animals and farm animals now flying, not only are many people using fake vests and certificates, but I'm sorry, animals cannot be jumping on pax. A proper service animal does not do that.
Thankfully, other airlines I fly do not allow animals in the Business class cabins partly due to pod seating. In the main cabins, they must fit in their carriers and under the seat if they are small cats or dogs.
Mods- if there is already a thread, please merge/move. Thanks
IMHO
If this is what happened, then AA has a serious problem.
You can all feel free to disagree, but if the crew did indeed applaud when she left the aircraft, then no one has learned a thing in the past month.
The emotional support animal free-for-all is also out of control. Not only are large animals and farm animals now flying, not only are many people using fake vests and certificates, but I'm sorry, animals cannot be jumping on pax. A proper service animal does not do that.
Thankfully, other airlines I fly do not allow animals in the Business class cabins partly due to pod seating. In the main cabins, they must fit in their carriers and under the seat if they are small cats or dogs.
Mods- if there is already a thread, please merge/move. Thanks
@ FWAAA
Thanks for your thoughts.
You may not like the rest of my OP, you may not agree with what Gary Leff or what I and the other posters here had to say on EITHER the "alleged" behaviour of the cabin crew or the dogs or the pax with allergies, but I'm pretty sure we are all equally entitled to post.
If the thread or posts need to be edited, moved, or deleted, the mods are here to do that.
May 19, 2017, 9:47 pm
#43
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FWAAA
Thanks for your thoughts.
You may not like the rest of my OP, you may not agree with what Gary Leff or what I and the other posters here had to say on EITHER the "alleged" behaviour of the cabin crew or the dogs or the pax with allergies, but I'm pretty sure we are all equally entitled to post.
If the thread or posts need to be edited, moved, or deleted, the mods are here to do that.
Thanks for your thoughts.
You may not like the rest of my OP, you may not agree with what Gary Leff or what I and the other posters here had to say on EITHER the "alleged" behaviour of the cabin crew or the dogs or the pax with allergies, but I'm pretty sure we are all equally entitled to post.
If the thread or posts need to be edited, moved, or deleted, the mods are here to do that.
I agree with your on-topic point, and that is the alleged applause/cheering of the crew as she was off-loaded. If that happened, the crew was out of line.
My criticism of the off-topic detour into emotional support animals was to highlight the fact that almost none of the posts in this thread concern the crew's behaviour. Instead, they concern something outside AA's control - the dog's presence. If the dog meets federal requirements, then the dog flies, and there is nothing AA can do about that. Might as well complain about the air traffic control system or the weather as complain about the presence of the dog.
As an aside, her alleged allergies would be the same no matter the dog's status. If the dog was accompanying a US soldier who had been blinded in combat, her allergies would be no less severe, and yet nobody in their right mind would be complaining about that dog in the cabin. That's why the status of the dog is completely irrelevant to this thread. Leff made an error in ranting about his views on emotional support animals, and unfortunately, it's a popular diversion, as evidenced by many of the replies.
May 19, 2017, 10:09 pm
#44
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I sincerely apologize. I'm not saying that you're not "entitled to post." I'm critiquing your post.
I agree with your on-topic point, and that is the alleged applause/cheering of the crew as she was off-loaded. If that happened, the crew was out of line.
My criticism of the off-topic detour into emotional support animals was to highlight the fact that almost none of the posts in this thread concern the crew's behaviour. Instead, they concern something outside AA's control - the dog's presence. If the dog meets federal requirements, then the dog flies, and there is nothing AA can do about that. Might as well complain about the air traffic control system or the weather as complain about the presence of the dog.
As an aside, her alleged allergies would be the same no matter the dog's status. If the dog was accompanying a US soldier who had been blinded in combat, her allergies would be no less severe, and yet nobody in their right mind would be complaining about that dog in the cabin. That's why the status of the dog is completely irrelevant to this thread. Leff made an error in ranting about his views on emotional support animals, and unfortunately, it's a popular diversion, as evidenced by many of the replies.
I agree with your on-topic point, and that is the alleged applause/cheering of the crew as she was off-loaded. If that happened, the crew was out of line.
My criticism of the off-topic detour into emotional support animals was to highlight the fact that almost none of the posts in this thread concern the crew's behaviour. Instead, they concern something outside AA's control - the dog's presence. If the dog meets federal requirements, then the dog flies, and there is nothing AA can do about that. Might as well complain about the air traffic control system or the weather as complain about the presence of the dog.
As an aside, her alleged allergies would be the same no matter the dog's status. If the dog was accompanying a US soldier who had been blinded in combat, her allergies would be no less severe, and yet nobody in their right mind would be complaining about that dog in the cabin. That's why the status of the dog is completely irrelevant to this thread. Leff made an error in ranting about his views on emotional support animals, and unfortunately, it's a popular diversion, as evidenced by many of the replies.
Appreciate your detailed reply. Thanks. And yes, I know you can critique any post.
Either the applause from the crew was alleged or it happened. There are people who know the answer. So, perhaps video will surface or maybe Gary and any media outlets who reported the same, will provide an update and clarify.
And I am no position to judge the pax who ultimately deplaned.
May 19, 2017, 10:51 pm
#45
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I was wondering how one tells an 'Emotional support or psychiatric service animal' from an animal who's travel has been paid for.