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Hawaii: probability of 763 equipment swap DFW-HNL on daily non-stop?

Hawaii: probability of 763 equipment swap DFW-HNL on daily non-stop?

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Old Sep 2, 17, 2:04 am   -   Wikipost
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AA Boeing 767-323ER (31 in Fleet)

There are urgently two variants of Boeing 767-323ER used on DFW - Hawai'i flights:

Boeing 767-300ER "model 1": 30 J/F angled flat "NGBC" seats in five rows laid out 2 x 2 x 2 across; 28 Main Cabin Extra / MCE stats in 2 x 3 x 2 (other than row 17, 2 x 2 used for crew rest on long haul sectors; 160 Main Cabin / Economy seats with 31" seat pitch. Link to SeatGuru seat chart for this aircraft. (7 as of Aug 2027.)

Boeing 767-300ER "model 2": 28 fully flat Thompson Vantage seats in seven rows laid out 1 - 2 - 1 with all aisle access; 21 Main Cabin Extra / MCE stats in 2 x 3 x 2 (other than row 17, 2 x 2 used for crew rest on long haul sectors; 160 Main Cabin / Economy seats with 31" seat pitch. Link to SeatGuru seat chart for this aircraft. (24 as of August 2017.)

It has been rumored the seven "NGBC" aircraft will be retired relatively soon.

The "CIP" variant with new J/F seats is prioritized for transatlantic routes due to the Joint Business Agreement with AA, AY, BA, IB. CIP aircraft scheduled for Hawai'i service may have old "NGBC" types substituted for various reasons up until time of departure.

As of 04 Jun 2017, 24 aircraft (77% of the of entire active fleet of 31) have been converted. These include N342AN, N343AN*, N344AN*, N346AN*, N347AN*, N348AN*, N349AN, N350AN*, N379AA, N381AN, N384AA, N385AM, N388AA, N389AA, N390AA, N391AA, N392AN, N393AN, N394AN, N395AN, N396AN, N397AN, N398AN, and N399AN*.

The following 7 aircraft (23% of the of entire active fleet of 31) have NOT been converted: N369AA, N373AA, N376AN, N377AN, N380AN, N383AN, N387AM.

The following aircraft have been retired (as of 30 Mar 2017): N345AN, N351AA, N352AA, N353AA, N354AA, N355AA, N357AA, N358AA, N39356, N359AA, N360AA, N361AA, N362AA, N363AA, N39364, N39365, N366AA, N39367, N368AA, N370AA, N371AA, N372AA, N374AA, N7375A, N378AN, N382AN, N386AA.

Resource links:

Link to FT thread "LAA 763 / 767 CIP New (2014) Business Seat Map, Best Seat / Seats (consolidated)"

Link to FT thread "Renovated LAA 767-300 / 763 "CIP" with New Business Class Apr 2014 (Discussion)"

Link to FT thread "Boeing 767-300ER / 763 Next Generation Business Class / NGBC seating (consolidated)"

Link to New American Fleet Tracker 767-300ER web page.

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Old May 2, 17, 2:19 pm
  #256  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Originally Posted by LANDJ999 View Post
DFW - OGG 2 hours till take off and still the lie flats 767.
I'll report back on any switches
They switched us about an hour before take off to the old non cip. Which accounted for a 2 hour delay. Toward the end of the flight I was told we ALMOST
Had to turn around due to a warning light. That would have been the frosting on the cake. No more AA for us. Plane was 28 years old.
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Old May 2, 17, 4:05 pm
  #257  
 
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Originally Posted by LANDJ999 View Post
They switched us about an hour before take off to the old non cip. Which accounted for a 2 hour delay. Toward the end of the flight I was told we ALMOST
Had to turn around due to a warning light. That would have been the frosting on the cake. No more AA for us. Plane was 28 years old.
your Hawaiian vacation was so reuined by angle lie flat and not horizontal lie flat that you're switching airlines? When you knew from this very thread that switch often happens last minute?
Seriously?
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Old May 2, 17, 4:30 pm
  #258  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Originally Posted by LovePrunes View Post
your Hawaiian vacation was so reuined by angle lie flat and not horizontal lie flat that you're switching airlines? When you knew from this very thread that switch often happens last minute?
Seriously?
It wasn't reuined. It was a crap flight by a crap airline that I booked months ago.
I wanted what I booked months ago .
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Old May 19, 17, 1:57 pm
  #259  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
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I have DFW>HNL AA123 booked 2/23/18. From what I have read I should be guaranteed the CIP plane, since the non-CIP ones will be retired by then, correct?
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Old May 19, 17, 2:48 pm
  #260  
 
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Originally Posted by shimps1 View Post
I have DFW>HNL AA123 booked 2/23/18. From what I have read I should be guaranteed the CIP plane, since the non-CIP ones will be retired by then, correct?
Its possible you'll end up on a 289 seat 772 due to the 767 retirements. Even a few CIP 767s are being retired.
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Old May 19, 17, 4:28 pm
  #261  
 
Join Date: May 2017
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Post

Originally Posted by meunger11 View Post
Its been noted by FT'ers on this route that some have seen the swap from as much as 24hrs out via ExpertFlyer seat alerts, to literally when they step foot on the plane.

(My understanding is that if you're staring at a 763 with silver bird livery, it's non-CIP, and with the new paint it's a CIP 763 with new lie-flats. Source: "American Fleet Site" @:-))

EDIT: On a side note this is officially my 100th post!


(just looking at the posts due to me flying on the CIP 767 to OGG soon, and would rather go through LA than get TGed) Ive been on a 767 from DFW-MIA, and I was on the old config, or so I thought, till I stepped on the plane and it was N343AN! Just hope nothing happens to me involving a swap
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Old May 19, 17, 4:29 pm
  #262  
 
Join Date: May 2017
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Originally Posted by shimps1 View Post
I have DFW>HNL AA123 booked 2/23/18. From what I have read I should be guaranteed the CIP plane, since the non-CIP ones will be retired by then, correct?
You might even be on the 787 or 777! they might all be gone!
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Old May 19, 17, 5:58 pm
  #263  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
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Posts: 83
Thank you for this. I'm excited to be able to have the lie flat on my overnight flight.

Originally Posted by StirredNotShaken View Post
Hey Zeke320 - I wanted to thank you for providing that URL to us. It was accurate as promised, and the aircraft registration numbers would update throughout the day as others have noted.

Here are some quick steps for those who will be flying from Hawaii to DFW and want to verify what type of 767 they'll be (possibly) getting:



Notes from my HNL-DFW 767 flights:

In my case, I had a newer 1-2-1 F layout on the way out to DFW, but a 2-2-2 F layout coming back to HNL.

For IFE, both flights had Samsung tablets loaded with movies and other stuff as well as Bose headphones if needed.

The meals were the best I've had in AA F. On the departing flight, I had Pork Osso Bucco. On the returning flight, I had the Sea Bass.

CIP F Layout:
Pros:
  • This layout is great if you have the solo window seats (Seats #A or #J ) - you'll have direct aisle access and your own lie-flat (really flat) seat.
  • There were two AC power adapters (I think they're international format). No USB jacks were available.

Cons:
  • The only thing that I observed was that the seat was sort of thin (e.g. not wide enough for some broad-shouldered passengers). YMMV
  • Although I fit my seat lengthwise with no issues, some taller passengers might run out of leg room if the seat is set to lie-flat mode. Also, no foot rest at the base of the seat.

Non-CIP F Layout:
Pros:
  • More legroom and a footrest
  • The Angled Lie-Flat seats are pretty good. The controls don't respond to your adjustments via the console, but I was pretty surprised how comfortable I was. At least the seats are nowhere as ridiculous as the LUS-757 seats that PHX and PHL are stuck with.

Cons:
  • The only power source was a automobile-style cigarette light jack. No AC outlets or USB jacks. Seriously, we're 17 years into this century. Can the penny-pinching US Air management light a fire under them and start modernizing? (yes, I know that's what they're doing with the CIP now...)
  • I was spoiled by the 1-2-1 layout, and having a 2-2-2 layout means that you'll have to squeeze over your sleeping neighbor if you're in #A or #J .

Bottom line: I was quite happy with the DFW flights, and I was more comfortable than any other domestic AA flight I've ever taken. I hope you will be too.
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Old May 19, 17, 9:11 pm
  #264  
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Originally Posted by AALjetsetter View Post
You might even be on the 787 or 777! they might all be gone!
Sarcasm or inside info?
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Old May 20, 17, 8:15 am
  #265  
 
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I booked the lie flat seats and, as what seems to be the norm, didn't get them. I had the 2-2-2 going from DFW to HNL. The flight left 2 hours late and I missed my Hawaiian connection. I did have a wonderful seat mate and the crew and food were very good. The seats were even relatively comfortable. This flight was on 4/28/17.

For my return flight, I was on flight 102 on 5/16/17. It was also the 2-2-2 configuration, but the interior appeared to be in better shape. However, the plane itself wasn't. We left about 15 minutes late and flew approximately an hour before the pilot announced an "indicator light" problem and turned around to returned to HNL. The flight was met on the runway by several fire trucks. We were advised that the breaks and tires were overheated and needed to be cooled down before we could go to the gate. After about 20 minutes, the plane was towed to the gate. Eventually, they ended up cancelling the flight and taking everyone to the Hilton Hawaiian Village by shuttle. We ended up spending 2 nights there until they could get us home in domestic 1st class, which was extremely uncomfortable. I couldn't sleep on the red eye and my back and shoulders ached the entire trip. My legs got very swollen because there was no way to elevate them. I have genetic blood problem that causes me to get blood clots and spent several days with a DVT and multiple PE's in ICU this past January. I had to try to get up and walk around several times to help alleviate this problem. I also found out from another disrupted passenger that this same plane was cancelled the previous night.for engine problems, which I feel was the real problem on our flight. I'm fairly certain this plane was taken out of service after this happened. I added up the cost for our 2 nights and it is right at $1000.00. This certainly cost AA a lot of $.

If you think you are getting lie flat seats, it is a very remote chance. I did talk to 2 people who advised they came to Hawaii on the 1-2-1 configuration, so you might get lucky...or you might have our nightmare ride home! The extra 2 nights might seem great to some, but we'd been gone over 2 1/2 weeks and just wanted to go home. AA did arrange excellent accommodations, transport and gave us a decent food voucher. However, they tried to send me and my husband home on separate flights and putting me in coach. I refused and then they tried sending us home on Saturday night to arrive on Sunday, arriving home 4 days late. I had to make several calls before we finally got on our Thursday flights, arriving home on Friday night.

They gave everyone 15,000 AA miles for our inconvience. I'm thinking that is far too low for everything they put us through. Buyer beware if you are booking this route. It is a bait and switch at best. Or in our case, a total uncomfortable nightmare!

Last edited by ImAllEars; May 20, 17 at 8:20 am
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Old May 20, 17, 12:59 pm
  #266  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,692
Originally Posted by ImAllEars View Post
I booked the lie flat seats and, as what seems to be the norm, didn't get them. I had the 2-2-2 going from DFW to HNL. The flight left 2 hours late and I missed my Hawaiian connection. I did have a wonderful seat mate and the crew and food were very good. The seats were even relatively comfortable. This flight was on 4/28/17.

For my return flight, I was on flight 102 on 5/16/17. It was also the 2-2-2 configuration, but the interior appeared to be in better shape. However, the plane itself wasn't. We left about 15 minutes late and flew approximately an hour before the pilot announced an "indicator light" problem and turned around to returned to HNL. The flight was met on the runway by several fire trucks. We were advised that the breaks and tires were overheated and needed to be cooled down before we could go to the gate. After about 20 minutes, the plane was towed to the gate. Eventually, they ended up cancelling the flight and taking everyone to the Hilton Hawaiian Village by shuttle. We ended up spending 2 nights there until they could get us home in domestic 1st class, which was extremely uncomfortable. I couldn't sleep on the red eye and my back and shoulders ached the entire trip. My legs got very swollen because there was no way to elevate them. I have genetic blood problem that causes me to get blood clots and spent several days with a DVT and multiple PE's in ICU this past January. I had to try to get up and walk around several times to help alleviate this problem. I also found out from another disrupted passenger that this same plane was cancelled the previous night.for engine problems, which I feel was the real problem on our flight. I'm fairly certain this plane was taken out of service after this happened. I added up the cost for our 2 nights and it is right at $1000.00. This certainly cost AA a lot of $.

If you think you are getting lie flat seats, it is a very remote chance. I did talk to 2 people who advised they came to Hawaii on the 1-2-1 configuration, so you might get lucky...or you might have our nightmare ride home! The extra 2 nights might seem great to some, but we'd been gone over 2 1/2 weeks and just wanted to go home. AA did arrange excellent accommodations, transport and gave us a decent food voucher. However, they tried to send me and my husband home on separate flights and putting me in coach. I refused and then they tried sending us home on Saturday night to arrive on Sunday, arriving home 4 days late. I had to make several calls before we finally got on our Thursday flights, arriving home on Friday night.

They gave everyone 15,000 AA miles for our inconvience. I'm thinking that is far too low for everything they put us through. Buyer beware if you are booking this route. It is a bait and switch at best. Or in our case, a total uncomfortable nightmare!
geez, over dramatic much?
my first thought was this sounds like the poster was the dog-lady from this post turning up her nose at certain first class seats. Seriously, 2 extra nights comped in Hawaii at HHV resort and a flight home in first class plus 15k miles and it's a "nightmare"?
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Old May 21, 17, 8:59 am
  #267  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
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Am considering jumping on the $600 o/w YYZ-DFW-HNL fare in July and have read through this thread. Sounds like there's still plenty of chance for an old config during the summer. Would you all book the 9am 772 departure or go for one of the 763 flights? CIP 763 does look nice.
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Old May 22, 17, 7:12 am
  #268  
 
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Originally Posted by Taoyuan View Post
Am considering jumping on the $600 o/w YYZ-DFW-HNL fare in July and have read through this thread. Sounds like there's still plenty of chance for an old config during the summer. Would you all book the 9am 772 departure or go for one of the 763 flights? CIP 763 does look nice.
If your connection to DFW works, I would book the first flight DFW-HNL #123 which is scheduled starting July 5 to a 772 retrofitted with the new lie flat biz suite and the MCE and economy cabin is refreshed also.
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Old May 22, 17, 8:07 am
  #269  
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Originally Posted by davesam12 View Post
If your connection to DFW works, I would book the first flight DFW-HNL #123 which is scheduled starting July 5 to a 772 retrofitted with the new lie flat biz suite and the MCE and economy cabin is refreshed also.
^^^^
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Old May 22, 17, 12:36 pm
  #270  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
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Originally Posted by davesam12 View Post
If your connection to DFW works, I would book the first flight DFW-HNL #123 which is scheduled starting July 5 to a 772 retrofitted with the new lie flat biz suite and the MCE and economy cabin is refreshed also.
Any way to tell if DFW-OGG (Maui) in September will be moving to upgraded equipment? Thanks!!
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